Tim Hortons co-founder reported to be OK after plane crashes

[MrWings]

Why did the Mounties set up a 'command post' for a landing accident where no one was injured? Curious how the filthy rich are treated differently than the rest of us.

I don't think it was that unusual.

I've seen 3 fire trucks, 2 ambulances and 4 cop cars waiting for a Navajo coming in with one engine shut down and no emergency declared.

[Hedley]

I've seen 3 fire trucks, 2 ambulances and 4 cop cars waiting for a Navajo coming in with one engine shut down and no emergency declared.

The government certainly act in mysterious and disproportionate ways. Not sure if you're following it or not, but a lone RCMP officer was recently shot up north.

But in another incident, the government (in this case Transport Canada) set FOUR armed RCMP officers to the house of a retired founding Civil Aviation Tribunal judge, where they held him captive without explanation at gunpoint for 6 hours, for the purpose of seizing aircraft documents, which they sat on for TEN MONTHS until a Tribunal hearing, at which time NOT ONE of the original seized documents was used as evidence. Meanwhile the aircraft had been grounded the entire time.

It gets better. The warrant was incorrect (address was wrong). Transport and the RCMP knew it, and committed the illegal search and seizure nonetheless.

Incredibly, at the Tribunal hearing, the Transport lawyer said that the problem with the invalid warrant was "just a technicality".

Isn't then, the entire law "just a technicality"?

As I said, the government certainly acts in mysterious ways.

[Cat Driver]

It gets better. The warrant was incorrect (address was wrong). Transport and the RCMP knew it, and committed the illegal search and seizure nonetheless.

Hedley, you an I know that these laws do not apply to TCCA.

I have a letter signed by Merlin Preuss that states law breaking and dishonesty at the top levels of TCCA is " quite satisfactory ' and " Has his full support "

So what else do you expect with a moral degenerate like Preuss as your DGCA?

[xsbank]

I worked for a type rating training company and not I, nor any of my fellow instructors, nor the TREs ever sent anyone out who was not ready to fly his aircraft.

If someone was having difficulty, he got more sim time until he got it right, or in very rare circumstances, (because of the general high caliber of the 'students') they got sent home and re-scheduled.

There was absolutely NO bum-in-seats mentality in my outfit. NONE.

If you wish to make blanket statements about corporate, I would refer you to the racism thread which adequately covers the futility and incorrectness of blanket statements.

[CAL]

75 feet wide with some nasty weather in that machine is not leaving much room for error....looks like substantial damage.....
Maybe they should use appropiate equipment for where they are going....
but why is the gear up?

[Greg87]

Sounds like the gear hit the lip of the runway, I guess it had enough force to collapse the gear.

[CAL]

wow....so much for roll up the rim this year!!

[Snowgoose]

75 feet wide with some nasty weather in that machine is not leaving much room for error....looks like substantial damage.....
Maybe they should use appropiate equipment for where they are going....
but why is the gear up?

If you read the article the mains hit the lip short of the runway. It was probably to much load for them to handle so they folded backwards.

[hazatude]

wow....so much for roll up the rim this year!!

[twinpratts]

Pretty sure it's all rolled up already (tongue in cheek).

[Old fella]

This was first flight without support pilot. 4800ft strip, 75 wide. Winds were 20G30. Max demo for Global is 29Kts. Aircraft delivered brand new 2 weeks ago. Pilots had less than 20 hrs in A/C.
________

Here are some eye witness details:

I was standing just abeam the threshold of the runway, because I knew the
plane was coming in, and wanted to see this landing up close (not the
brightest thing I have ever done). Very windy day, ceiling about 600 to
900 feet.

The plane landed short by about 5 feet, at which point the ground sloped
downward (a kind of berm). As a result, the main gear was driven up
through the wings. The right gear hit first, such that the right wing hit
the grass on the upwind side of the runway. I was standing on the
downwind side, else I might not be here. I was about 10 feet from the
edge of the runway at the point of first impact. Pieces of it hit me,
that’s how close I was.

The aircraft is destroyed. I doubt it will ever fly again. Both engines
continued running for a time after the aircraft came to a stop. Pat
(my copilot) was the first onboard. He climbed aboard the right wing and
entered the cabin through the emergency exit to provide assistance. Mark
Byrne was there seconds later, and called to Pat that the Emergency Lights
were still on. Since fuel was pouring from the left wing (which was
slightly elevated where the aircraft rested) and probably from the right,
Pat went back in to ensure that the captain had turned off all power and
also shut off power to the emergency lights. At the request of the fire
department, which was on the scene very quickly, I entered cockpit to
ensure everything was off, and then the rear equipment bay to disconnect
the main battery. I looked and looked, but couldn’t find it. I went back
into the cabin to retrieve the Pilots Operating Handbook, which I thought
would tell me where the main battery was. From the diagrams, it seemed
that there was a battery in the nose and also one in the rear equipment
bay, but I still couldn’t find it. Mark was able to force open a
panel at the nose to disconnect the avionics battery. Then it occurred to
me that you would know, and that I had your number in my cell phone. I
never would have found it. The fire department was very relieved and
very grateful.

I assisted in giving first aid to the most seriously injured, which was an
interesting experience, since I had just completed a 2 day first aid/CPR
course (MedAire). The only serious injuries were back injuries to the two
pilots, although the captain also had nasty gash in his forehead. In the
cockpit, I can see what put the big gash in the captains head: the red box
which I think is the HUD. Tell your pilots to wear shoulder harnesses,
and to cinch their seatbelts down tight. The first RH forward facing
passenger seat appeared to have been dislodged. It may have been swiveled
before the landing, bad idea. Glass everywhere in the galley. Passenger
compartment was a shambles.

Very interesting day. Not sure when we will get out of here, because they
have closed the airport until the TSB gets here.

Ron Joyce had surgery as a result and one of the pilots is still in Hospital CYHZ

[Mig29]

I heard a rummor that the weather was pretty nasty all over the east coast....and that this one one of the few places to put the bird down??

anyone can confirm this..?

[Trailing_Link]

Old Fella...... I'm sure that the insurance company is going to be interested in speaking with you. As I see it, you were just a distraction that the crew didn't need to have to deal with while landing on a short and narrow strip, on a challenging day. Did you ever consider that perhaps while the crew was approaching, configuring and lining up, that they didn't see you, and catching a glimpse of you, at the last moment (way too close) might have contributed to the accident? Further, regardless of how much you may have helped or hindered the evacuation, you may have endangered the lives of the rescue personnel who may have had to rescue your sorry butt after you re-entered the plane. If you want to see planes up close, the ramp makes and ideal location.

For you own safety and for that of the rest of us; don't run with scissors, stay away from trees and open spaces during a thunderstorm, don't play with matches and stay away from the runway when planes are landing. Any other bright ideas consult an 8 year old, I suspect he'll be able to give you some advice.

My sincere respect to the boys involved in the incident.

[dashx]

CVR FDR

[the_professor]

It gets better. The warrant was incorrect (address was wrong). Transport and the RCMP knew it, and committed the illegal search and seizure nonetheless.

Par for the course for the RCMP, this country's worst institution. Welcome to the world of having an unaccountable secretive police force.

Isn't that why we fought two world wars -- in order to prevent living under unaccountable and irresponsible regimes?

[flyinphil]

Old Fella...... I'm sure that the insurance company is going to be interested in speaking with you. As I see it, you were just a distraction that the crew didn't need to have to deal with while landing on a short and narrow strip, on a challenging day. Did you ever consider that perhaps while the crew was approaching, configuring and lining up, that they didn't see you, and catching a glimpse of you, at the last moment (way too close) might have contributed to the accident? Further, regardless of how much you may have helped or hindered the evacuation, you may have endangered the lives of the rescue personnel who may have had to rescue your sorry butt after you re-entered the plane. If you want to see planes up close, the ramp makes and ideal location.

For you own safety and for that of the rest of us; don't run with scissors, stay away from trees and open spaces during a thunderstorm, don't play with matches and stay away from the runway when planes are landing. Any other bright ideas consult an 8 year old, I suspect he'll be able to give you some advice.

My sincere respect to the boys involved in the incident.

Funniest speculation I have heard in a long time....

It can't be that the crew screwed up while pressured by the boss, it must have been a pedestrian off the side of a runway. Right..OK.

[Cat Driver]

It can't be that the crew screwed up while pressured by the boss, it must have been a pedestrian off the side of a runway. Right..OK.

Was he dressed in a deer costume?

[Old fella]

Trailing_ Link:

For the record and to set it straight, I was not the "observer" close to the runway while this A/C was on approach followed by the unfortunate incident for the very reasons you pointed out. Last place I am gonna be while an expensive turbojet A/C is wing walking in gusty conditions to a 75ft airstrip... I am too old for that and been around way to long. Digital camcorders and step back is my philosophy for close up views!!!!!!!
This info was passed on by a contact out east that got it from another observer. I should have paraphrased a little better………….

[Mig29]

I wouldn't blast Old Fella for the help he provided that day!!
You don't know the facts, haven't been there, so don't trash this guy for assisting in the incident if you don't know the whole story..

my 2 cents:)

[GVFlyer]

Another Global 5000 landed short, this time in the Caribbean. I'm beginning to fear going outdoors. This article is from AIN.

Another Global 5000 Lands Just Short of Runway

By Jennifer Harrington
December 20, 2007
Accidents

A Bombardier Global 5000 landed short of a runway in the Caribbean islands on December 12 and sustained damage after hitting an airport perimeter fence. Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authority (ECCAA) flight ops inspector Paul Delisle told AIN that the accident occurred at Vance W. Armory Airport on the island of Nevis and said there were no injuries to crew or passengers. A spokeswoman for the NTSB confirmed that the Safety Board “was aware of a situation…involving an airplane with the registration number N50DS.” She added that although the ECCAA has jurisdiction, the NTSB has offered to assist in the investigation. A spokesman for the FAA yesterday said that the owner of the airplane, Tampa, Fla.-based First Southeast Aviation, had not yet notified the FAA of the incident although the company is required to do so because it is a U.S.-registered airplane. An employee of First Southeast Aviation confirmed to AIN that the Global 5000 is registered to the company, but would not comment further. This is the second incident of a Global 5000 landing short of a runway since November. On November 11, a Global 5000 owned by Tim Hortons cofounder Ron Joyce landed short in Nova Scotia, Canada.

[rippey]

The airport in Nevis is almost 1000' shorter than Fox Harbour
TKPN
Runway Ident: 28 /10
Runway Length: 3996
Runway Width: 98

And there is a hill on short final making it even tougher.

[The Hammer]

Does the Global 5000 come with a cowboy hat and a set of spurs or do U have to buy them yourselves???

[fogghorn]

How come timmy ho's is called by that name, did ho have the donut scam going before he got pissed and jumped in his car for the last time - or did this dude buy the rights to ho's name? Just curious

[flyinphil]

How come timmy ho's is called by that name, did ho have the donut scam going before he got pissed and jumped in his car for the last time - or did this dude buy the rights to ho's name? Just curious

Tim had started the business and RJ was his first franchisee. RJ became a full partner as they approached the 5 store mark. Interesting that RJ had bought him the car that Tim was killed in. "This Dude" scrupulously acquired control from TH's widow at a time when she was weak. Scum of the earth...

[fogghorn]

To bad the dude didn't get sucked into an engine. Sounds like a real prize, thx for the info.