Canadian PPL

[Etienne]

Hi all

Once again, a question regarding the differences between the SA way of flying and yours!

The PPL here consists of a few cross-countries, 15 hours solo, demonstrating forced/precautionary landings, stalls, spin recovery (as I was in a Citabria I got to do full spins, instead of the incipient) and the usual ground-school stuff (radio work, airspace, engine mechanics, airframe structures, navigation etc...).

Our PPL does not include any night or instrument flying, as those are considered separate ratings. As a result, with a basic PPL we are not allowed to fly above more that 3/8th cloud, in less than 5 mile visibility, above FL200, or more than 15mins either side of sunshine.

My understanding is that in the States, the PPL includes an introduction to instrument flying, enough to get out of cloud, and enough to be allowed to fly on top of it, as well as at night. Does your PPL have similar privileges?

Also, does colour-blindness place a restriction on your medical, preventing you from flying at night or in IFR?

Thanks (again)
Etienne

[Guido]

Hi all

Once again, a question regarding the differences between the SA way of flying and yours!

The PPL here consists of a few cross-countries, 15 hours solo, demonstrating forced/precautionary landings, stalls, spin recovery (as I was in a Citabria I got to do full spins, instead of the incipient) and the usual ground-school stuff (radio work, airspace, engine mechanics, airframe structures, navigation etc...).

Our PPL does not include any night or instrument flying, as those are considered separate ratings. As a result, with a basic PPL we are not allowed to fly above more that 3/8th cloud, in less than 5 mile visibility, above FL200, or more than 15mins either side of sunshine.

My understanding is that in the States, the PPL includes an introduction to instrument flying, enough to get out of cloud, and enough to be allowed to fly on top of it, as well as at night. Does your PPL have similar privileges?

Also, does colour-blindness place a restriction on your medical, preventing you from flying at night or in IFR?

Thanks (again)
Etienne

Your PPL sounds pretty close to Canada's - night flying is also a separate rating here, as well as instruments. I think most places give you the basics of instrument flying as well for getting out of clouds.
However, there is a another rating for flying on top - VFR-OTT (Over the Top). Both of those ratings are included with a commercial license.

I've heard varying reports on the colour blindness side of things - from what I remember, if you're borderline colour-blind, they may do a test with you to see if you can see the difference between coloured signal lights from a tower at night.

Hope this helps a little :

[Etienne]

It does sound very similar then... Yep helps a lot

Thanks

[MrWings]

Last time I checked, the PPL had 5 hours instrument training.

[Etienne]

Last time I checked, the PPL had 5 hours instrument training.

As per http://www.rfc.ca/NewSite/PPLinfo.htm , you are correct. Ok, I'm assuming then for my PPL to be converted, I'd need to do that at least...

[Hedley]

CAR 421.26(8) applies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#421_26

(8) Licence Issued On the Basis of Foreign Licence

(a) An applicant who is the holder of a Private or higher pilot licence -aeroplane issued by a Contracting State shall be considered:

(i) to have met the ground school instruction requirement; and

(ii) to have met the written examination requirement and the flight test requirement, provided that the foreign licence was not issued on the basis of a licence from another State, and that the applicant:

(A) has met the flight time requirements specified in subsection (4);

(B) has obtained a minimum of 90% in the written examination Student Pilot Permit or Private Pilot Licence for Foreign and Military Applicants, Aviation Regulations (PSTAR); and

(C) has completed, as pilot in command or co-pilot in aeroplanes, a minimum of 5 take-offs and 5 landings within the 6 months preceding the date of application for the Canadian licence.

(b) The licence shall be annotated by the Minister to indicate that it was issued on the basis of the foreign licence.

(c) The Minister shall remove the annotation from the licence, provided that the applicant has successfully completed:

(i) the written examination requirements (PPAER); and

(ii) the skill requirement.

(9) Credits for Foreign Applicants

(a) An applicant who holds a Private or higher pilot licence - Aeroplane issued by a contracting state and who does not wish to obtain a licence issued on the basis of the foreign licence, may be considered by the Minister to have met the ground school instruction requirement.

(b) An applicant who holds a Private or higher pilot licence - Aeroplane issued by a contracting state other than Canada and who meets the flight time requirements specified in subsection (4) is considered to have met the experience requirements.

(c) An applicant who does not hold a Private or higher pilot licence - Aeroplane issued by a contracting state may be credited foreign dual and solo aeroplane flight training time and aeroplane ground school time towards the knowledge and experience requirements for the issue of a Private Pilot Licence - Aeroplane, if the applicant provides certification from the holder of a Flight Instructor Rating - Aeroplane that all ground and flight training exercises have been satisfactorily reviewed.

I might recommend getting your stand-alone Canadian
PPL, and with the new reciprocity agreement with the
FAA, pick up your USA pilot certificate, too.

[Etienne]

I'm guess South Africa isn't a contracting state, which would mean that I would need to re-do the 45 hours of instruction...? If so, that's a whole bunch of cash... If it's just the exams and ground school, then it's a very real possibility!

I'll have a careful look at that option though, there is definitely merit in it.

Thanks

[Hedley]

Of course South Africa is an ICAO contracting state:

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/members.htm

Why on earth would it not be?

P.S. Re-read the above quote. It's a tad obfuscated,
but you do not have to do any ground school.

You can either get a Canadian ppl issued on the
basis of your SA PPL, or a stand-alone one.

I might recommend you do the first - it looks
like a gimme - then do the ppl written test
and the ppl flight test, then you get the second.

Clear as mud?

[Etienne]

The terminology of "contracting State" is a bit different to what it's known as here, so I though it was referring to a political agreement of some sort between two countries, rather than relating to ICAO. I would know it as an "ICAO member country".

However, at the end of last year ICAO did an audit of our CAA, and they didn't exactly pass it... They have since been able to scrape through, and the bubblegum and string is holding for now. This is Africa after all

All right, that's a relief!

So part (IV) says that I need 5 hours dual IF, which I don't have, so that's the first thing I'd need to do.
Then there's the PPAER exams (??? - the full set of Nav, air law, engines and airframes, etc?),
and the (8.c.ii) "skill requirement" which I'm guessing is a practical flight test...?

That would give me a Canadian PPL without the "obtained due to a foreign license" endorsement... Am I reading this correctly?

Thanks, I really appreciate your time

[MichaelP]

I reckon that you would be better off doing the five instrument hours in SA and getting them signed off in your logbook.
Make sure unusual attitudes, and 180 degree (hdg) turns are signed off in accordance with Canadian flight test standards.
You should only have to do the PSTAR exam and a Canadian medical to get the Canadian PPL.

If you don't have the five hours instrument you will go through the process of having to do it here on a student pilot permit which is a little be more hassle.

Now here's the thing... You can get a licence validation on your SA licence at most TC offices and go fly.
At our local office they will check your logbook and if you don't meet the Canadian PPL requirements you won't get a validation!

I made sure that one of my students in Thailand met all the requirements for the Canadian PPL, and I provided him with a Canadian PTR to back it up.
I included five hours of instrument training, and a cross country in excess of the 150NM requirement even though these were not required for the Thai PPL!

The TC office in Edmonton took his PTR, but told him that all he need do is present his Thai PPL and they'd have given him a Canadian validation anyway.
This seemed to go against my insisting he meet the Canadian requirement when I trained him in Thailand!
Pacific office would have gone through his logbook with a fine tooth comb

We have had JAR licence holders refused a validation due to not having the requisite five hours instrument, or even the 12 hour solo requirement.

I know of no-one who has had to write the PPL exams for a licence issue if they had an ICAO licence already.
Only the PSTAR is required.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Pacific office would have gone through his logbook with a fine tooth comb

What ever you do do not apply in the Pacific Region office because you may find the mentality there will drive you back to S.A.

Go to any region except the Pacific Region.

I understand the Hamilton TC office is real efficient and fair.

[Etienne]

I'm amazed that the different regions have such different rules! Certainly something to bear in mind...

Thanks guys... I also like the idea of doing the training here, as it's also probably a little cheaper

[Driving Rain]

http://www.spectrumairways.com/pstar/pstar.php

Here is a practice PSTAR test for you Etienne. No surprises

[Guido]

I'm amazed that the different regions have such different rules! Certainly something to bear in mind...

Thanks guys... I also like the idea of doing the training here, as it's also probably a little cheaper

Etienne, it's not so much different "rules", just that the rules are enforced more rigorously in some areas than others... and unfortunately, they are interpreted differently in some places... For example BC especially seems to be fairly well known for being a bureaucratic nightmare (as a generalization, having read many posts on this forum) versus other areas that seem a little more genial, and actually work with the aviation community as opposed to against it.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

For example BC especially seems to be fairly well known for being a bureaucratic nightmare (as a generalization, having read many posts on this forum) versus other areas that seem a little more genial, and actually work with the aviation community as opposed to against it.

Aviation is expensive enough with enough hoops to jump through without having to deal with power driven Nazis in a TC office.

The problem is they are government employees who are completely unaccountable to anyone and when you get a bad one in a region they can really give you a headache just because they can, all it takes is nothing more than he may not like your hair cut and you have a problem.

In the Pacific region we have several who fit the thug description perfectly and one is in the licensing office. Having been reamed by that prick more than once and lost a very large amount of money due to his outright illegal actions I would only go in that office with my lawyer and my federal M.P.

Even then I would most likely get shafted anyhow, so the best course of action for me is to never set foot in that cesspool they call a Regional TCCA office in Vancouver.

[Etienne]

Thanks for the test! Going through it, I think I'm getting about 50% (about half-way)... There's plenty of Canada-specific stuff there which I'm going to have to learn (eg. What is the minimum height you can fly over a herd of Caribou?)...

As for TC, at least you guys have alternate regions that you can work through. We have a single office, and for certain things, you have to appear in person (yes, even to hand in a form), and for some people, that's a 1400km trip one-way. As for the power-hungry Nazi's, yes we have them too...

Our CAA recently passed a set of law that has grounded nearly all NTCA aircraft (and I mean 90%+)...

So I'm used to it...

[Hedley]

An interesting read on the effects of sociopaths in organizations:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/security/dmo ... door-11631

1 in 100 are dangerously psychopathic, while 4 in 100 are just sociopathic

Management should be taking a long hard look at the cost benefit of having 5 out of 100 people, or 5% of an organization that fundamentally has no feelings for other people, or is incapable of empathy. They see no wrong in what they are doing and are not likely to realize the damage that they do in their quest for entertainment. This can be devastating to a company that invests in team work, virtual teams, or any other process that requires the interaction of people to be successful.

Remind you of any organization?

[Etienne]

The Commission Against Aviation comes to mind, but that's probably just me being unreasonable

[MichaelP]

Cancel All Aviation, and Campaign Against Aviation were other names...

It's not that bad at Pacific office of TC, but you need to make sure everything is in order.
It shouldn't put you off doing some flying in this region which IMHO is the best place to fly in Canada.
If you need help you can always e-mail or PM me and I'll make sure you meet the pre-requisites before you go and see TC.

[Etienne]

Thans for the offer

I'm still at least a year away from getting to Canada, but when the time comes, I'll definitely take you up on that!