C-FMOM, RCMP spy plane?

[Ogee]

Family Guy,

When you hear of any dope dealing scum ever being caught by this plane, or any other RCMP plane, you let us know. It'll be a first. In the meantime, the rest of us are considering how much this type of useless crap is costing us taxpayers.

[scrambled_legs]

Ogee, you're completely clueless.

Any drug busts you see on TV usually have been assisted by air patrol. Obviously the police won't divulge information on how the bust was made or how they discovered the operation. Bad guys own TV's with public cable as well. Not only do these aircraft obtain intel on the operation and gather evidence/photos of those involved, they also assist the officers in entering a hostile environment with eyes/ears that the criminals don't have. There are countless busts, major arrests, criminal operations being shut down by police daily, they only release about 1% of their info to the media. I know the conspiracy theorists are going to jump all over that one, but given the ridiculous media reporting on events, why would they release more?

I love how we all know how biased/clueless the media is when they report on an aviation incident, yet when they report on a police case everyone jumps aboard the media police bashing train. According to the media we nearly had a collision between a CRJ and a snow removal vehicle in Kelowna the other day. Really it was just a standard missed approach due to CRFI out of limits. Maybe we should start bashing ATC for that one too. Get a grip people, the guy was throwing chairs and holding a stapler in a defensive stance. Would any of you be willing to take a stapler in the side of the temple rather than take him down with a tazer that was expected to do nothing but give him a jolt of pain? Unless you somehow know the full story and not what the media is feeding you, shut it.

[Ogee]

Ogee, you're completely clueless.

Any drug busts you see on TV usually have been assisted by air patrol. Obviously the police won't divulge information on how the bust was made or how they discovered the operation. Bad guys own TV's with public cable as well. Not only do these aircraft obtain intel on the operation and gather evidence/photos of those involved, they also assist the officers in entering a hostile environment with eyes/ears that the criminals don't have. There are countless busts, major arrests, criminal operations being shut down by police daily, they only release about 1% of their info to the media. I know the conspiracy theorists are going to jump all over that one, but given the ridiculous media reporting on events, why would they release more?

I love how we all know how biased/clueless the media is when they report on an aviation incident, yet when they report on a police case everyone jumps aboard the media police bashing train. According to the media we nearly had a collision between a CRJ and a snow removal vehicle in Kelowna the other day. Really it was just a standard missed approach due to CRFI out of limits. Maybe we should start bashing ATC for that one too. Get a grip people, the guy was throwing chairs and holding a stapler in a defensive stance. Would any of you be willing to take a stapler in the side of the temple rather than take him down with a tazer that was expected to do nothing but give him a jolt of pain? Unless you somehow know the full story and not what the media is feeding you, shut it.

I say the same to you as I do to that other yahoo up above.

Nobody is being busted by airplanes with a bunch of antennaes. It's you that is completely clueless about how the criminal justice system works. Every bust is accompanied by complete disclosure about every police method used, omitting only the names of informers. If an airplane had ever caused a bust of any dope dealing scum in this country, we would have known about it. Air support at a bust. Of course. Having a bust, let's call in air support. That doesn't mean the air support caused the bust.

When you come onto a forum running your mouth like this, understand this. You aren't just speaking to a bunch of fellow travelling morons, some of the people on this forum run the race in a much faster time than you do. We don't have discussions with you, we have discussions about you. What do we see in you? Some guy who thinks "scrambled legs" is a clever use of English. Some guy who claims to know the full story, which isn't what the media is "feeding" those who disagree with him, and then tells people to shut up who don't agree with him. Not only don't agree with him, but consider him grossly inferior in his ability to make a coherent argument based on facts rather than wild exaggerations and meaningless analogies. Some clueless joey that thinks nobody on here has ever faced a violent and disturbed person without thinking that killing him was a perfectly normal response.

We have a problem with police in this country. They are killing without consequence and the process by which the public rejects that and works to put things right is slowed and distorted by people like you, police psychophants, people who think they can pull themselves up in the eyes of others by showing support for the police, and calling people clueless and telling them to shut up.

I'm sure there are many people on here who would have some little git like you crapping your pants if you were ever face to face with them and wanting to beak off like you are here.

[linecrew]

LOL...you guys have no idea what you are talking about. Do some research before verbal spewing.

[scrambled_legs]

Nobody is being busted by airplanes with a bunch of antennaes. It's you that is completely clueless about how the criminal justice system works. Every bust is accompanied by complete disclosure about every police method used, omitting only the names of informers. If an airplane had ever caused a bust of any dope dealing scum in this country, we would have known about it. Air support at a bust. Of course. Having a bust, let's call in air support. That doesn't mean the air support caused the bust.

hahahaa.... wow you are in a league of your own. I've worked alongside the police for many years, I have a really good idea how their operations run. They rarely disclose all their methods. When's the last time that CSIS had a press conference to inform you what their current or past targets and operations are? I can't disclose info on here as to the specifics but you are clueless. What MOM's deal is, if they're even a police plane, I don't know but I can guarantee that they're not flying around building hours in a cessna like you.

[sigmet77]

Ogee, I know RCMP find grow ops with aircraft and access some of them with them, that is a fact. You want to rant about a waste of tax dollars go ahead, but get your 'facts' straight first.

[Wilbur]

Ogee, your stupidity is awe inspiring. How many people have been killed by the police in this country, you pick the time frame? How many have been murdered by others over that same time frame? Does your belief that you have an equal chance of being killed by the police hold true? No, you simply read a headline or two about the occasional isolated case of police wrong doing, and then foolishly leap to the conclusion that it means there is widespread corruption.

Here's a couple more corrections for you. Names of witnesses, accused, spied on people, etc. are not excluded from police documents used in court. In fact, word for word transcripts of wiretaps and audio survellance are provided to the accused's lawyer. Increasingly, DVD's of video evidence are also provided. With very few exceptions, full disclosure is a requirement of our system.

Aircraft survellence evidence has played a part in many arrests and trials, as well as preventing some serious incidents. For example, an operation that occurred in the Nanaimo area a few years ago that I have some inside knowledge about. A growing feud between a group of motorcycle enthusiasts and southeast Asian refugees over the local drug trade. A senior motorcycle guy, club president I believe, beat the crap out of a senior Asian, and the resulting loss of face required a significant response. A contract was issued and a car load of four heavily armed Asians was dispatched from Vancouver to carry out the order. Airborne survellence allowed them to be easily tracked from a distance until they were in an area that minimized risk to the public. The airborne officer was then able to direct in the three police vehicles used to stop them. One in front and one behind to box them in, and a third van full of heavily armed tac team members to swoop in and take them down. Because of the element of surprise, not a single shot was fired although the Asians had a car load of various automatic weapons and ammo. That incident was part of a much larger survellence operation against the motorcycle enthusiasts where aircraft were used to identify who was on the property, where they were, and to guide ground based survellence teams into positions while avoiding counter survellence by the bikers. The motorcycle guys also used an airplane for counter survellence in an unsuccessful attempt to spot ground teams.

The turbine 210 is used for high altitude survellence. It will loiter up high where it can't be seen or heard from the ground.

The police will not release much info about how they use aircraft. But, if you want to spend a month or two sitting in a courtroom observing the trial of a major organized crime figure, you might pick-up a few tidbits if aircraft were used to directly collect evidence during the operation. If they only helped others to collect evidence, they won't be mentioned.

[Hedley]

Few people are aware that the RCMP used airborne
surveillance to great success in the Air India bombing
investigation.

[V1RotateV2]

Was G-FTZR already taken?

[Blakey]

Was G-FTZR already taken?

Yup!

Aircraft Information

Mark: C-GTZR
Common Name: Hughes Model Name: 369D
Serial No: 790554D
Basis for Eligibility for Registration: Type Certificate - CAR Standard 507.02 (1), 507.03 (3) - H3WE
Category: Helicopter Max take-off weight: 1361 kgs
Engine: 1, Turbo Shaft
24-bit address: 110000000111100101110000
Regional Office: Vancouver
Base of Operations: CANADA , British Columbia, Eclipse Camp

Manufacturer Information

Manufacturer: Summa Corporation
Country of manufacture: U.S.A. Year of Manufacture: 1979

[FamilyGuy]

Actually Ogee, it would be far easier to list the grow op busts that didn't involve airborne surveillence.

When I worked the ramp many many many years ago, the RCMP had the 210's and we serviced them occasionally - knew the pilots etc. They had neat stuff back then - I don't imagine that has changed except to get better.

If like most aviators when ground bound you walk with your eyes "forever s k y ward" you should notice these guys way the hell up there once in a while. Not alot of sightseeing potential that high although I think they were just watching a CFL game once.

[the_professor]

Few people are aware that the RCMP used airborne
surveillance to great success in the Air India bombing
investigation.

Ah yes, and a lot of good that did after those ham-fisted IDIOTS led a twenty year investigation ( ), only to have the suspects walk at the end.

Just another example of our bungling national police force.

Corrupt, unaccountable, and incompetent.

[justplanecrazy]

Ya blame that one on the police . Have you ever seen how much paper work bullshit goes into a murder case? You have boxes full of paperwork and because the lawyer pulls out one paper where the i wasn't doted, the whole case crumbles. Now just imagine how much paperwork and process is involved in a case as complex as the Air India mess. By the way I think Hedley was yanking your chain.

Yes our legal system is F*#KED but our police our not to blame. Start looking at the judicial system and then you'll start seeing a corrupt, unaccountable, and incompetent force. Nothing like appointed judges that repeatedly let the criminals that the police catch, back out on the streets, to ruin the whole system.

[oldncold]

their aircraft cannot be tracked by flightaware type programs

all it shows is a a departure with in the control tower airspace thne it "vanishes"

[2R]

Did they not cut the head of that biker guy and leave it on his kitchen table or was that a different hit ???

I am suprised that the police protected the bikers from attack .Most of the police i grew up with would have waited outside to arrest the winners of the battle.As my old pal once said at the gory scene of a big fight "THROW OUT YOUR DEAD"

[Wilbur]

The biker disappeared. Rumours that he may have been chopped up on the beach and the parts disposed of. May have been part of deal with the Asians to avoid an all out war, along with an internal power struggle and concerns with his own drug use.

There is also a lot more to the story, with aircraft playing a critical role in averting a major gun battle between the two groups. The one take-down I described was only a moderately important event in the whole situation.

[2R]

What our spy services need is less cloak and more dagger

[Hedley]

I think Hedley was yanking your chain

You think correctly

[MrWings]

They were flying the 210 up in northwestern Alberta during the time Wiebo and his flunkies were causing trouble in the oil patch.

[ballsac]

FMOM and FSUJ (C208 operated by the RCMP) were doing VFR orbits over the eastern part of YQT Friday for a couple of hours, 1,000 vertical separation, but covering the same territory.

Hello Big Brother.

[Go Guns]

I know one of the guys up there. He said he saw what you were up to...... you sick bastard......

[Rudy]

MOM left today. Off to London he said (better call your dealer on a land line you flight exec boys). There's a Caravan now that looks to have some large big brother type device on it's belly.

[Ogee]

If they were really causing anyone any problems, they'd have been blown up on the ramp some night long ago.

I remember back in the mid 80's the horsemen had a 182 and a 210 at YVR in one of the big FBO hangers. One of the groups they were after rented the office space above theirs, had the roof of the RCMP office wired from above, and had bought themselves a couple of rotating beacons then had some techie install a small, by the standards of those days, beeper in each one, complete with mini antennae and power supply off the aircraft itself, right through the rotating beacon power supply. They then went down into the hangar, which they had full access to, took a stepladder, and swapped the beacons out. Of course the mounties always flew with their rotating beacons on, and the objects of their affections always had a receiver tuned to the doctored beacon transmitter, and it was never a secret when they were around or who they were after. That all came through the mikes in their office ceiling.

Nobody died and nobody lost an eye, though, and we can be thankful for that.

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

If I were the RCMP this is what I would use MOM for.

MOM shares a hangar sometimes with the O.P.P. I would use the plane the O.P.P helicopter and police on the ground with radio's and ATV's to find and destroy large outdoor (cornfield type) grow ops. Laying charges for plants found would be a waste of my time, and I don't think that is what they are trying to do. They are in effect eliminating the possiblilty to have a large outdoor grow op by and making growers resort to indoor growing. By forcing the grow ops to go inside, they can use other easier tactics to catch and actually lay charges. It's is easier to make an arrest on an indoor grow op then an outdoor.

It is much more difficult to conceal or cover your a$$ when growing inside. Things like building/land ownership, hiding hydro/energy use, and concealing unusual traffic in and out of the building/house to move things like soil and fans. Also concealing the smell to neighbours is also a problem.

They want large scale grow ops to have to move inside. Using MOM to eliminate the big outdoor players is one way of doing that. The 10-70 plant outdoor sites probably don't even register as a good use of their time.

Just my opinion...

[Cadismack]

Has anyone else seen the c206 they use for surveillance in BC? Filled it once with Jet-A. Not sure how many 206 have turbine conversions, but it was a cool concept anyway.