Priorities

[Cat Driver]

I can't help but wonder if maybe pilots are happy with the way the industry is going pay wise and safety wise when I see there are over 46 and a half thousand hits on a subject titled " Best bear gun. "

And most if not all threads dealing with the state of the industry get a few hundred hits.

So maybe pilots are either satisfied with the way the industry is or they are to naive to know any better.

[Edo]

or maybe they are just ready to go postal? good thing all you people in Onterrible got us the gun registry.

[Changes in Latitudes]

It eats me alive everyday, Cat. I am aware of it, but yet, what am I to do? You tell me how I can fix it. I refuse unsafe conditions, take home a meager salary that doesn't afford engagement rings or home ownership, and work as hard as I can when I can. I'm listening, let's have it. Not much I can do when my captains are leaving for companies that pay less than what I, as a FO, make.

My hands are tied, but if there's something I am missing...give'r.

[r22captain]

*I edited this due to the fact that I was not trying to mount a personal attack on the poor fellow I don't even know. My original post was moments after finding out that for the last 2 weeks I haven't turned blade, I haven't been on daily mins, but averaged mins and my anger overflowed to the pages of avcanada*

but....I still hate this cartoon.....

[Mr. North]

I'm with you on that one Latitude. We can't do much as individuals which is why a collective agreement or union needs to be formed. Every other notable trade or profession has one, carpenters, mill workers, nurses, doctors, teachers, why not pilots? It's been debated endlessly and yet I still can't comprehend why many pilots would oppose it? I don't see our wages or workplace safety getting any better on their own. Someone needs to get the ball rolling. I think there is plenty of "hidden" support for a union, at least in my neck of the woods anyways.

[Doc]

Why would anybody want to waste money on an engagement ring, when they could use that money to buy a really good "Bear Gun"????

[twinpratts]

anybody had a look at that stupid thing "JUSTWANNAFLY" has attacehed to his post's.....people with that mentality are the reason everyone is rockin value village 10 packs of tighty whitey's and chowin on left over KD and pounding mountain crest.

Sorry... but I don't agree that the problem is the image, or who posted it... rather the guys who are doing it in the industry everyday. I would take the signature as a tongue in cheek remark, about the state of the industry.

2 cents.

[brokenwing]

cpl_atc, your posts confuse me, I'm willing to bet that your a seneca kid. you seem to know everything.... an aviation deity so to speak.

[x-wind]

I remember reading about how important ones attitude is as a pilot. There was a few important questions that were asked. One was how do you view other pilots. It's a question we should all ask are selves. It likely affects many of the decisions we make, perhaps even at a subconscious level. I'm not just talking about decision in the cockpit.

Random bitching never seems to solve much. Perhaps there are some that are more deserving than otheres, but who are we to judge. I hate bad apples too. -Lets all try to make this a respectable profession at an individual level first.-

[brokenwing]

thanks for the grammar correction. your posts confuse me in a way that you speak up when you know absolutely nothing about a topic. no harm no foul.

[twinpratts]

[altiplano]

/

[North of You]

All work and no play makes me a dull boy. Rather simple I would say.

[Liquid Charlie]

There has to be more people out there who enjoy their aviation careers and have attained a certain amount of success and contentment. I have very little complaints -- enjoyed my jobs for the most part -- dealt with the disappointments and carried on. Never made it to the "majors" but there is life out there outside air canada -- I'm likely happier for it - the best time I had was my "under paid" years in the bush and that didn't last long enough.

Safety is also what you make it - I will admit that there is a fine line you walk when you draw the line with an employer over when you will go, what you will haul but if you establish your credibility they won't question your decisions unless you have established a reputation of being a whiner -- no respect -- no credibility --

[Rowdy]

Bitching about it on an internet forum will do you no good..

Getting the word out to all those new guys coming out of the flight schools and colleges that they should not be taking Mcwages to fly clapped airplanes is a much better idea.

They'll do anything to get going in aviation.. waiting for the glory days of the airlines and the 100k paycheck and glass tubes... unfortunatly what they're actually doing is lowering everyones standards...

Perhaps there should be an organization that stipulates wages based on location and equipment.. and that every commercial pilot needs to enter into it to be employable. Or maybe a restriction or cap number of students the college programs can produce... thus increasing the actual cost of attaining the licence! Wouldn't that help the instructors wages as well? Maybe attract and retain some people who would otherwise move on? Perhaps we could get TC to tighten up a little bit more on 703 OPS in regards to working conditions and wages?!? Mandate a bare minimum level of income for all 703 ops!!

The only way to make money in aviation is to either lower the wages of the pilots (one of the few flexible expenses) or charge more money. We obviously need to be charging more coin.

[200hr Wonder]

Rowdy, good points, however I strongly disagree with TC needing to legislate MORE. Lets face it, TC could not organize a 1 car funereal and are about as useful as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. The way I see it is we need a Professional Pilots Collage of Canada, the PPCoC. The mandate of this organization is as follows:

• 1. Provide guidance to all professional pilots in Canada
  2. Mandate and maintain training guidelines from CPL, right through to PPCs and ATPLs.
  3. Work with TC for all things in regards to pilot licensing and training
  4. Mandate minimum compensation for all professional pilots in Canada
  5. Work with SMS and operators to ensure a safe operation for all professional pilots and passengers

For example the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada has the following mandate:

An Organization of medical specialists dedicated to ensuring the highest standards and quality health care for Canadians.

The mandate of PPC should be something like:

An Organization of professional pilots dedicated to ensure the highest safety and customer care for all Canadian airline users.

I am sure if more thought was given we could get something better. Now if the organization where to get big enough you might even get legislation giving control of CPL and better licenses to the College and away from the bureaucrats. Things like PPCs could be removed, higher standard CPL, higher standards required for instructors, pilots looking out for pilots in terms of safety, remuneration, representation. Think of the benefits that this organization would have, for example representation, for the SunWing pilot who just after four years was exonerated with regards to the defamation and subsequent dismissal by SunWing. The college could have been there to help with that situation. Or with regards to the life insurance in the bush pilots thread, the college could work with insurers, to get fair and adequate coverage for a bush pilot.

Just because lots of people want to become pilots does not mean that we are scum. Yes a pilot is a generally desirable job to many people, but lets stand up for our selves and not talk it any more. We are pilots we are professionals, lets act like it! The time is way over due for an association of this nature.

[CD]

For example the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada has the following mandate:

An Organization of medical specialists dedicated to ensuring the highest standards and quality health care for Canadians.

It would be a good start, but please don't model it after the medical profession. Lots of trouble in that "old boys club":

The Canadian Adverse Events Study in 2004 found one in 13, or 7.5 per cent, of patients who received care in hospi­tals suffered an adverse event in 2000 — 37 per cent of which were preventable — most commonly related to surgeries.

Improving that will be difficult in a cli­mate in which owning up to a mistake could land someone in court, said study co-author Dr. Ross Baker.

...

Kathryn Clarke, a spokeswoman for the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, estimated only three to five per cent of complaints investigated are ever made public.

Pain is her constant companion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dr. Richard Austin -- had operated on women at Scarborough General for decades. Nothing in the public record regarding his performance indicated a problem.

...

What Mavis Hudson didn't know was that at the time of her surgery, The Scarborough General Hospital and the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons were aware of concerns relating to Dr. Austin's surgical and post-operative complications.

As early as 2004, Dr. Austin had been warned by the head of gynecology at The Scarborough General about unacceptable complication rates for laparoscopic hysterectomies -- they were 10 times the expected rate. And in 2006, the Scarborough General's head of gynecology requested an independent review of Dr. Austin's surgical practice.

As well, several formal complaints against Dr. Austin had been registered with the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons and in at least two cases, the College found that Dr. Austin failed to properly manage critically ill patients.

...

Mavis Hudson had no idea about any of this because in Canada, the public cannot access doctors' performance records or information about complaints substantiated by Provincial Regulatory Colleges. In some provinces, the public can find out about complaints that result in formal disciplinary action - but less than 1% of cases fall within this category.

W-FIVE: Right to Know

[200hr Wonder]

Well CD when you start with a fresh peace of paper you try hard to separate the chaff from the grain. There ambitions are noble they have just been bogged down in decades of "old-boys" club that we don't want or need and would work hard to avoid.

[CD]

[200hr Wonder]

Oh and lets not forget a dedicated media contact person(s) who knows a thing or two! So when a plane gets a little bent the media can call and get strait answers and not Joe Stupid who has done a fam flight discussion about cross wind landings in an A320.

[r22captain]

ok very good points everyone.....I guess I can pat myself on the back for stoking the fire. Although the cartoon may be all in good fun and in fact reality, it's a shame to be flaunting it around. Joke or no joke we should be bringing in tomorrow's aviators with the attitude that they should be paid and treated fairly for the services they provide.

but my wings spin in circles......what do I know.

where did I put that???? ooh..........here it is

[200hr Wonder]

Are you a professional pilot? Well then you should bring professionalism to your job, even if you are in the bush wearing thermal coveralls hauling around fuel or long lining over a logging site.

[Rowdy]

200hr.. Good call.

I'm guessing everyones seen me trying to stoke the fire in a couple of other threads. Some people need a good poke in the eye before they'll speak up. Seems to have worked

Maybe we wouldn't have to deal with a lot of the BULL that goes on and poor treatment and ridiculously low pay by some ops with such an association.

[carholme]

Rowdy;

There is an old saying, "When you are in a hole up to your neck, stop digging".


carholme

[Changes in Latitudes]

ok very good points everyone.....I guess I can pat myself on the back for stoking the fire. Although the cartoon may be all in good fun and in fact reality, it's a shame to be flaunting it around.

I tend to agree. That is a stupid cartoon and it irritates me to no end. So don't apologize.

When it comes down to it, in aviation, in this entire world actually, there is only one type of respect that truly matters: self respect. And for some it comes by simply breathing, existing and going to whatever flying job, others seem to work so much harder for it. I'm having a tough enough time with it myself.