great pay for intsructors????

[Sasky]

Flight instructor remuneration consists of an hourly rate, which is dependent on your instructor class, skill set and annual hours worked.

Now I have read this add a few times now and nowhere in the does it say anything about pay. All I can see from this statement is, You get paid when you fly, but with no guarantee of hours. So in lamens terms, just bend over and take it

If you are going to post an add stating "great pay for instructors" then please put your pay in there somewhere.

[MAPilot]

If you are going to post an add stating "great pay for instructors" then please put your pay in there somewhere.If you are going to post an add stating "great pay for instructors" then please put your pay in there somewhere.

The pay is in the ad! A typical Class 3 instructor can earn $30 per hour. This is dependent on them teaching for a minimum number of hours per year. There is no 'formal' guarantee of minimum hours for instructors, as is common for the vast majority of schools. If you are willing to work full-time, we want you to have as many hours as possible. The Company pays for attendance at training and professional development courses and for other responsibilities and duties taken on by employees. There are currently Class 3 instructors on course for earning over $50k this year.

I hope this answers your question and I am happy to answer any others people may have. I can be contacted directly via the link on our website:

http://www.montair.com/via_internet.htm

Ian Kennedy

[Grey_Wolf]

Doing a little math ... I'm still hard pressed to believe a Class 3 is going to make 50K!

For it to work out, one would have to "bill" almost 1670 hours for the year
(50,000 / 30,00 = 1666.6666)

Taking take and making it into a monthly figure, it almost 140 hours.
(1666.6666 / 12 = 138.888)

Once again, into a weekly amount, 35 hours!
(138.888 / 4 = 34.7222)

Since there is 168 hours in a week, let's take away 12 hours a day for sleep, drive, eating ....
That leaves you with 84. Now let's throw in a day off (the other 12 hour for the day) per week,
that leaves 72. Trying to fit 35 hours into it seems possible, but that hasn't taking into account
weather, delays, booking changes, maintenance issues, getting sick, burnout, or elsewise.

For those keeping score, that means 6 billable hours per working day.

And to top it off, that $50K gross, not clear! So let's take 25-30% away in taxes!
So that leaves them with $35,000-$37,500.

Let's just say that they would have earned every single penny!

Side Bar: to clear $50k, one would have to gross almost $67k, which means 2222 billable hours!

[C-GGGQ]

On a busy day i get 4.5-5 hours and thats an ALL day gig and thats good for me i'm burnt out after that. I can go the od 6 or 7 now and again but trying to get that extra flight in EVERY day would drive me nuts, and probably end with me strangling the unlucky students who flaired a few feet to high on the last circuit of hour 7.

[MAPilot]

First, with 2 weeks of vacation included, any full-time employee will work 2000 hours per year (40 hours per week). Secondly, I do not know of many companies that advertise net pay. This is nothing unusual.

Again, as previously stated we pay our instructors for time that they are gainfully working. This could include Dispatch, course development and program management. If they choose not to undertake such work, that is up to them, but we try to provide choices.

As an additional note, an instructor who is able to manage their time carefully can utilize their time at approximately 75%, i.e. for a 2 hour booking, being paid for 1.5 hours. At four bookings per day, there is your 6 hours. I was able to consistently do this as an instructor.

As a School we will teach a minimum of 3000-4000 hours of ground school per year, due to the nature of the Integrated ATPL programs that we provide. Therefore, if the weather is not good enough to fly, there should always be work available.

A positive, motivated and hard-working individual can make over $50k per year as previously stated. A rigid 9-5 instructor will not. It is their choice.

There is no catch here. Instructors have a choice where they work and I would like to employee good instructors and pay them as much as we can. If they choose another job that pays less, then we potentially both lose. I am simply trying to being positive, like the instructors I would like to employee.

As always, I will happily answer questions. I hope everyone has a good weekend....

Ian Kennedy

[dman119]

CZBB in the summer:

10:00-12:00 booking

10:00- aircraft arrives and needs fuel ( #5 for fuel )

10:20- student is done walkaround, wx etc...( if you're lucky )

10:20-10:45 g/b on lesson = .4 pay

11:00- in a/c w/engine running. ( listening to the ATIS 4 X )

11:10- departure

12:00- arrival

12:20- back in classroom for 5 min debrief ( should be free of charge )


Total 2:25

Pay .4 G/B, 1.0 A/C

Thats billing 58% of my time, 75% throughout four bookings a day would be pretty impressive.

[Invertago]

Is there a base pay to be considered, or are we talking $30/hour only? Just curious as that would factor in significantly during the poor weather months of winter. There is only so much dispatch, groundschool you can do to fill in for the foggy days.

[jetboy1975]

12:20- back in classroom for 5 min debrief ( should be free of charge )

Why? It's time you're spending teaching a student. The debrief is a learning tool too.It usually isn't billed by alot of instructors but should be.

[CD1]

Hey

I hear McMurray Aviation is paying $2800/month and the instructors work 10 days on and 5 off, pretty sweet deal. I know they are looking for people, so if there are people looking for work, they should apply.

[PC12's are better]

The end game is to ensure that your time us used as efficiently as possible, as in the above example, booking is 10:00-12:00, why do you allow the aircraft to return at 10. 99% of schools require AC back no later than 15 mins prior to end of booking so to allow for fueling, post flight de-briefing and to allow for the next student to do walk around.

The first time that the student doesn't have the walk around done, paperwork completed and isn't waiting at the begining of the lesson (I.e. 10:00) will be the last time. If you allow them to stroll in late and drag their ass to complete the tasks at hand then it's no ones fault but your own that the billing time ratio is so poor. The first time is allowed and discussed but after that they are billed for it, or if it's an ongoing problem, they can find another instructor, my time is too valuable for this crap.

15 mins after GB until in A/C with engine running, and 20 after shutdown until in briefing room. Sounds like more pissing around than working. It's not that far to walk from the plane into the building.

if your booking was from 10-12, what are you still doing with the student till 12:25, you should be with the next student by then.

If you are briefing with your previous student till 10:25 becuase the previous flight was late departing therefore late returning, would you not still be briefing with them. so the A/C may be booked from 10-12 but the instructor is booked from 1025 - 1225. so you are now billing 1.4 hrs for a 2 hr booking. now from 58% you are up to a 70% billing ratio for that flight

2 hrs of groundschool is 2 hrs billable. No weather problems. No waiting for students.

Within the new IATPL program, as mentioned above as 4000 hrs is required to be taught throughout the year, then you could give 10 instructors 400 hrs each per year on top of the standard flight training that they would do.

OR give 5 instructors 800 hrs per year. At $30 / hr that is already $24000 per year and you haven't even turned over a prop once

Time management and flexability is the key guys. if you stop wasting it then you will find that you can put more students into your schedule and create better utilization of the aircraft

[Grey_Wolf]

The first time that the student doesn't have the walk around done, paperwork completed and isn't waiting at the begining of the lesson (I.e. 10:00) will be the last time. If you allow them to stroll in late and drag their ass to complete the tasks at hand then it's no ones fault but your own that the billing time ratio is so poor. The first time is allowed and discussed but after that they are billed for it, or if it's an ongoing problem, they can find another instructor, my time is too valuable for this crap.

That's putting the onus on the student to be prepared! Granted time is money, I agree that they should be prepared to learn.

[Playing Devil's advocate]
As an aside, how do you deal with a student that is a slow learner. What about weather, for example, you head out to the practice area, and the winds change so that it's take you that extra .2 or .3 to head home. Conversly, what happens if the plane that your student is supposed to be flying in, is away with another student/instructor and returns late? What about smaller schools where the instructors double as linecrew/dispatch (fuelling their own planes, calling students to confirm/cancel flight). What happens if the student had a bad flight and is asking more questions than the normal de-brief. The system's fine if all is clockwork, otherwise you'll be behind and will end up extending your day ... On that note at what point do you make up "lost" time, do you cut short another students lesson because the previous student ran late?

Let's use a 2 hour block, for example. First 35-40 minutes used for a new topic/PGI. Then 15-20 minutes for a walk around/paperwork.
Then 5-15 minutes for the run-up. Then the 0.2 to the practice area, then the 0.7-0.9 hour flying lesson, and then the 0.2 return, all the while having to bring it back 15 minutes before the start of the next booking ... sorry sport, you're "overbooking" that 2 hour slot! In this system, you're more focused at watching the clock than teaching! Thus the debate QUANTITY vs QUALITY ....

[PC12's are better]

(Again playing devils advocate)

Let's use a 2 hour block, for example. First 35-40 minutes used for a new topic/PGI. Then 15-20 minutes for a walk around/paperwork.
Then 5-15 minutes for the run-up. Then the 0.2 to the practice area, then the 0.7-0.9 hour flying lesson, and then the 0.2 return, all the while having to bring it back 15 minutes before the start of the next booking ... sorry sport, you're "overbooking" that 2 hour slot! In this system, you're more focused at watching the clock than teaching!

Using this example is perfect. Don't book a 2 hr slot if you will need more.
Lets assume with the following that the above is actually a 3 hr slot.

PGI 35-45 mins 0.6
Engine Start / Runup 5-15 mins 0.2
transit to training area, 0.2
Lesson 0.9
transit return 0.2

TOTAL 2.1 Equates to 0.7 billing ratio on a 3 hr booking.
NOTE: You didn't charge student for the 15 mins that you spent debriefing after the flight, nor for the 20 mins for not having the paperwork / walkaround done on time. (factor those in and now you have 2.6 billable / 3 hrs which equates to 0.86 / hr billing ratio.

If you need a 3 hr booking, then thats what you plan for, if you only need 2.5 then book accordingly, make sure that if it is the student who is making the bookings that on the previous flight they know exactly how much time you will need. In a smaller / quieter school with less demand on exact time keeping then this is less of a problem, but when each aircraft and instructor is booked solid throughout the entire day then this can pose a huge problem. Again it comes down to time management.

[dman119]

yes your numbers in theory make sense. But do Montair's airplanes never have snags? Are students never caught in traffic? Do you never have to wait for fuel?

Billing 86% of your time at Czbb, ha! Bull*&#* !

[Spokes]

My system used to work much better. 2 hour block? bill for 2.0 hours. did it take 2+15, then bill 2.3 hours. As long as instructors work for free, then they will continue to have to do so. You are not running a charity, dont behave that way. And if you do work for free, quit complaining, you are doing it to your self.

[Radiohead]

My system used to work much better. 2 hour block? bill for 2.0 hours. did it take 2+15, then bill 2.3 hours. As long as instructors work for free, then they will continue to have to do so. You are not running a charity, dont behave that way. And if you do work for free, quit complaining, you are doing it to your self.

I'm just curious, why are you suggesting taking it out on your students just because a flight school won't pay a base amount. I'd bet that you'd loose students fairly quickly if they only got 1hr or 1.3 instruction out of you and you billed them for 2 hrs. Is that really the type of cutthroat industry you want to be presenting to to fresh-faced eager pilots-to-be? I find it much more reasonable - and more professional - to charge students exactly what they use and have the flight school make up some of the difference by paying a reasonable base rate per month that makes up for slow months, seeing as how the flight school is taking 50% or so of whatever you bill anyway.

I agree that instructors aren't supposed to be a charity case, and yeah, they need to bill for ground time and whatnot when they're teaching but not flying, but the idea the flight school can't pick up some slack for their skilled workforce in slow times is rediculous, and shouldn't fall on the students who will be driven away - then nobody wins.

[Hoov]

well said radiohead

[Spokes]

My system used to work much better. 2 hour block? bill for 2.0 hours. did it take 2+15, then bill 2.3 hours. As long as instructors work for free, then they will continue to have to do so. You are not running a charity, dont behave that way. And if you do work for free, quit complaining, you are doing it to your self.

I'm just curious, why are you suggesting taking it out on your students just because a flight school won't pay a base amount. I'd bet that you'd loose students fairly quickly if they only got 1hr or 1.3 instruction out of you and you billed them for 2 hrs. Is that really the type of cutthroat industry you want to be presenting to to fresh-faced eager pilots-to-be? I find it much more reasonable - and more professional - to charge students exactly what they use and have the flight school make up some of the difference by paying a reasonable base rate per month that makes up for slow months, seeing as how the flight school is taking 50% or so of whatever you bill anyway.

I agree that instructors aren't supposed to be a charity case, and yeah, they need to bill for ground time and whatnot when they're teaching but not flying, but the idea the flight school can't pick up some slack for their skilled workforce in slow times is rediculous, and shouldn't fall on the students who will be driven away - then nobody wins.

In a 2 hour block, I provide 2 hours of instruction. This may include 1-1.3 hours or more of flight instruction as you say, but it also will include a brief and de-brief, and sometimes instruction before the engine is turning. It would be less than 'professional' to use your words to provide my services for free. i'm not quite sure of your point, are you saying that the flight school should pay for part of the ground protion of instruction?

I am not taking anything out on a student. I am charging for services provided. So if you say that ground instruction should be payed for, normally the other .7 of that 2 hour block, where do you have a problem charging for services? I do agree with you on the base pay thing. it would have been be nice during slow periods.

I am out of instructiong now, and am speaking of how I used to do things. I have never had a complaint from any of my students. Infact after receiving thier licence I was often tipped, and in some cases my clients put me on the insurance of their aircraft. They also often came to me for continuation training when they upgraded to a more complex aircraft. They did this because they got good instruction from someone with 20+ years in aviation. They did not expect me to work for free.