Your experience with Victoria Flying Club or Pacific Skys

[Pilot101]

Looking for anyones experience or knowledge of either the Victoria Flying club or Pacific Skys. will be picking one or the other in the near future for my PPL. Any info would be appreciated.

[mea]

Vic flying club
Nice people. Good instructors right now.. fly with them before they move on....

[privateer]

VFC has to be the best flying atmosphere in the country. Top notch Company, run by some top notch people. Really well maintained Aircraft and the CFI there is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

[jd_11]

I definitely recommend Victoria Flying Club. Great club, helpful staff, good instructors.

[ahramin]

Long ago when i was comparing the two Pacific Skies was the obvious choice. VFC has come along quite a bit since then but i would still pick Pacific Skies.

Who is the CFI at VFC nowadays?

[mea]

Graham Palmer is the CFI. Great guy. Funny, knows his stuff!
http://www.flyvfc.com/index.php check it out!

[ahramin]

Graham eh. Well, they say if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

[bodacious]

Same goes for the new CFI, Chief Pilot at Juan Air (Pacific Sky).
Why did they change the name, why did all the staff leave when the new CFI came.....
things that make you go hummmmmm........Why did Robin have to vacate Nelson......hummmmmmmm.......................

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Same goes for the new CFI, Chief Pilot at Juan Air (Pacific Sky).
Why did they change the name, why did all the staff leave when the new CFI came.....
things that make you go hummmmmm........Why did Robin have to vacate Nelson......hummmmmmmm.......................

I do believe Robin chose to leave Nelson because he had a better offer where he is.

Did you read the rules of this forum before you made your first two posts slagging people?

Robin is a friend of mine and I am not impressed with your allegations.

[Wacko]

Last year they hosted the webster competition there... VFC... the CFI (Graham) was/is really a good guy... when I talked to him.. he seamed content on being there ie. not just getting enough experience to jump ship... which is hard to find these days... anyway... VFC gets my vote!

[Coast-dog]

I too know Robin and Bonnie from their time at Juan Air and I don't think you know what you're talking about, bodacious.

I've not gone to visit 'the shop' since the new owners took residence, but I'm glad to know that they've taken the reigns from Bruce and Shirley. Best wishes!

[ahramin]

Like i said, nothing nice to say: say nothing. We are talking about people who make their living in this industry. Lets all just calm down.

[Airtids]

Same goes for the new CFI, Chief Pilot at Juan Air (Pacific Sky).
Why did they change the name, why did all the staff leave when the new CFI came.....
things that make you go hummmmmm........Why did Robin have to vacate Nelson......hummmmmmmm.......................

I do believe Robin chose to leave Nelson because he had a better offer where he is.

Did you read the rules of this forum before you made your first two posts slagging people?

Robin is a friend of mine and I am not impressed with your allegations.

Thanks for the support guys. Maybe I'm naive, but I didn't really take this as a slag, rather the incredibly misinformed, puerile ramblings of someone who maybe shouldn't hit the submit button. If it was intended as a slag, sorry kid, better try again or substantiate yourself! Anyways Bodacious, thanks for giving me the opportunity to set some things straight:

Juan Air was bought out three years ago by a very large organisation who saw the potential in this operation. They also ran a C441 and a B737 that they wanted to put to work, along with a couple of DHC3T amphibs, and all the other assets of another small company they also own across the field here- Viking Air. Perhaps you've heard of them? They are building BRAND NEW 400 series DHC6 aircraft. I have been brought on for several reasons, one of which is to add a float training/charter component to our business, for obvious reasons.

Last year, the parent company decided to change the Juan Air name to Pacific Sky Aviation Inc. to create a seamless aviation network, and there were a few issues with that change (failure to change the CTA license) which resulted in a short suspension of operations. The new company is essentially the same old company with a new name, and the same great history of producing professional pilots that goes back over 30 years. We have the nicest training fleet I've seen, and instructors who actually fly IFR operationally in the Navajos and C441 on a daily basis. This results in a better instructor, who creates a better student, who eventually becomes a better employee for me!

We have had 1 pilot leave since my arrival as the new CFI/Chief Pilot/Ops Manager (application went in well before I got here), and she's gone on to fly the Saab for Pasco, which is exactly what we hope for from our staff: Come in, do a good job, bag some excellent experience, and move on to bigger, better, faster, more. The rest of the staff seem very happy, and in fact seem relieved to have me moving this operation forward. They too see the tremendous potential here, both for the company to grow, and for them to move up. An operation that runs everything from C150s to turbine twins makes for great opportunities for pilots. I can't think of anyone else out here who can offer what we can to a pilot. They are my team.

I left Nelson for these reasons: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... it=airtids. No reason to go hmmmmmmm, there Bodacious- all you've got to do is learn to do a little research. In fact, it would seem to be the responsible thing to do. I'm not leaving the area at all, in fact I intend to roll that market into my new operation here. I wish I could do the Flight School as well, because our customers are missing us like crazy, but it just isn't worth it. Nelson is still my home, but family responsibilities come first. In fact #2 (Holden Eric Andrew) was born yesterday!

I'll say this: Graham and I get along great, we have a mutual respect that should be envied by everyone in this industry. However, I will also say that I think Pacific Sky is the shizzle!! Our fleet, our instructor experience level, and our opportunity for advancement are second to none. Couple that with the backing of a very serious group, and the potential created by the association with Viking, and you should keep an eye on this operation. Great things to come!

Pilot101, come on in anytime. I'd be happy to chat with you.

Robin Tidswell

[Pilot101]

Robin

I think I will take you up on that. I was in several weeks ago and spoke to a lovely young lady working the counter who gave me a tour and answered what ever dumb questions I could come up with at the time. I would like to bend your ear as I have lerned a few new things since my first visit at Pacific Skies.

Thanks a bunch for the invite.

[angry inch]

My experience with Pacific Sky was a very good one. I recently completed both the Multi & MIFR ratings. I snooped around all the FTU's @ CYYJ & ended up there because of the fun people. The staff are great & I miss them already.

Bruce, the previous owner/ops manager, was awesome... period. Robin came in to fill some big shoes, & in my opinion, did a damn fine job of it. From a customer's standpoint, the transition was pretty seamless (re: great staff..).

I give the whole group at Pacific Sky two thumbs up!!

[kostanza]

I've been around the Victoria Aviation scene for a long time...and both VFC and Pacific Sky are good operations, but I have noticed a few things about Pacific Sky...2 of their most experienced flight instructor's left as a result of the changes the new ownership brought about, the current instruction staff is mostly Class 4's and 2 class 3's plus the new CFI/CP/Ops Boss, who is a good guy, altho I have seen sometimes the student gets the shaft/short end of the stick because the instructors get taken off a training flight to crew a charter flight, who's more important? Pacific Sky/ Juan Air use to be a FTU that did charters, where the student was valued and wasn't cancelled on because of a charter came in, but now it seems it is a Charter company with a FTU on the side where charters seem to be more important then students but maybe I am just hearing things wrong? maybe, but I have heard it a few times (it doesnt happen alot but i've been told it does happen from time to time) from a few different people (as I said, I talk to alot of people who train at both FTU's at the field) , I sincerely hope the new CP/CFI/Ops Boss can rectify this situation.

To me it seems the problem is the new owners of Pacific Sky, not the staff, they are just doing their best with what they have been given, sure hope Airtids can turn it around for them, He has his work cut out for him for sure, But from what I've heard about him/talked to him I believe he can. Altho I sure do miss Bruce and Shirley tho, when Bruce and Shirley ran AND owned the place it was THE best FTU (FTU!!!) in Western Canada, hopefully it can remain that way without the new owners mucking things up.

But none the less, you will get the same product at either VFC or Pacific Sky and thats quality flight training, both are busy, and have for the most part top notch instructors and equipment.

K.

[angry inch]

Pilot 101...

If you're going to visit a FTU, make sure you talk to some of the current students, as they are the ones who will have the valid & current testimonials you are looking for.

Pacific Sky, take note of comments on "lovely ladies" at front desk. Do what you can to keep them around as long as possible!! There was not one "dud" among the entire front end staff while I was there... Compliments to Mr Gorle on that one... I am confident that Robin will bring more of the same.

Good luck

[Airtids]

kostanza,

You've pretty well nailed what I've got to deal with. If we are allowed to do our job without too much outside meddling, we should be fine.

The two instructors who left got frustrated at where they saw things going here before a replacement had been found for Bruce. This was before my time. We will lose other good instructors too: it's the nature of the beast at the entry level. By being able to offer more in terms of career, however, we can keep the good instructors around a bit longer. We currently have only 1 class 4, all the others are class 3 or better.

My problem is balancing the two operations. The student benefits from the experience these instructors bring to the table, and there is no additional charge to them. Having the odd flight cancelled (avoided whenever possible ) is an unfortunate cost to get this experience level. I would really rather not ever have to do that, but the reality is that unless we are over-staffed, and have instructors just sitting around, it seems to be unavoidable. This option is not at all possible given the current market for quality instructors. Add to that the fact that instructing is hands down the most difficult job in aviation in my opinion, and the obvious preference therefore for the pilots to fly a charter rather than have to actually work, and you can see what I'm faced with. If you've got any solutions, please let me know. I think we're doing a pretty good job, but I'm always all ears when it comes to suggestions for improvement.

angry,

Thanks for the nice comments. As for the girls, believe me, I want them around as much as everyone else, and the sooner I can turn them into instructors as well, the better .

[Cat Driver]

Add to that the fact that instructing is hands down the most difficult job in aviation in my opinion,

I agree to a certain extent Robin, however instructing when structured in a manner where the instructor has sufficient time to spend with the student and is not forced to fly excessive hours thus becoming burnt out makes the job far easier.

Ideally flight instruction would be at the high end of the pay scale in aviation and structured so as not to burn out the instructors.

To pay at the high end of the aviation pay scale would of course require the instructors to be from the high time and high experience side of the pilot pool.

When I am teaching flying I limit my flying to a maximum of three hours air time per day which gives me sufficient time for the ground portion of the training and allows me to ensure quality control in the teaching process.

As to the monetary end three hours flight time gives me $1150.00 for my days pay and I do not charge for ground time briefings, I'm satisfied with that arrangement and my students are not looking at the clock during ground breifings.

[Airtids]

.,

I've got to go back to Nelson for a few days, but I wanted to briefly address this before I left, without hijacking the thread. When I get back, maybe we can start another thread about how to fix the training industry in a realistic manner. I understand you're talking idealistically, but let's take a quick look.

You're probably right, and for specialised/niche training you're definitely onto something. We were getting into that out in Nelson, and it was great! The problem is, most FTUs (ours included) are in the business of providing flight training for the masses. From the guy/gal who just wants an RPP to be able to go punch some holes in the sky on a sunny Sunday afternoon, to the bright-eyed CPL MIFR or CPL float kid all full of dreams and aspirations about going to the airlines, or elsewhere and doing this for a living, we've got to be able to provide outstanding training to a whole range of desires, personalities, and budgets. We also have to keep our prices competitive, because the average consumer is a sheep, and will go wherever they think they will save a buck, with no thought given to value. Paying $383 per hour to reduce the workload on the poor instructor simply isn't realistic, because nobody would be willing to pay that kind of $$, plus aircraft, for basic training, no matter how good it was!
We pay well (partly thanks to the fact Charter Ops generate WAY more revenue than the FTU), but there is still no way we would be able to offer the pay to attract those pilots from the high time, high experience end of the pool, even if they were there, actually willing to do it. I hear about this fantasy all the time - the guy coming up on retirement from the line who really wants to give back to aviation, so is looking for some instructing work after he renews/obtains his rating- but I've NEVER actually seen it. It's hard enough out here to find a Class 2, let alone a Class 1! They way the industry is moving, most folks simply won't stick it out long enough for the upgrade. Pilots are mercenaries: They will do it for 1 reason, and 1 reason only: $$$$$$$. It's just not realistic. It's a big part of why the training industry is the way it is.

In order to avoid burnout of the staff we rely on to provide this service, we give them a break from the hard work of instructing by getting them to fly the line as well. They really seem to enjoy it, and I've yet to have one say "Gee, thanks for scheduling me on that charter to Smithers, but I'd really rather do PFLs for the day with some students!", and that is completely regardless of their experience level. The pay is better, the work is more highly respected/valued, and the job is easier. What would you expect? We're lucky to be able to offer that so that our folks stay fresh, and still enjoy all aspects of their jobs, instructing included. I think we're lucky.