Jazz SOP question.

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:40 pm

Is it normal to do a full procedure into a class E?

Just wondering since it was VFR at YXS a few days ago and we did the full procedure. I didn't bother to ask the pilots as I was leaving.

It's an SOP to do the full going into unfamilier airports (class B-F, VMC), in the Marines side of the house. Saving fuel isn't a huge concern for pilots.

Just curious.

pilotbzh · Post by **pilotbzh** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:58 am

AC paid for the fuel anyways....

Canoehead · Post by **Canoehead** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:42 am

If its the first time in to an airport for either pilot, an IFR approach is supposed to be done. Could be that someone is in the sim shortly and saw a good opportunity to brush up on something. Perhaps they were ahead of sked, and had a reason to 'take their time' (operationally).

It's even possible that the skipper won't do a visual, and prefers to make the most of the Nav Can system... (no kidding- flew with a guy like that last month and I just about went INSANE by day four

)

As for saving fuel, true that it's AC's fuel to burn, however good airmanship and being a good citizen of the environment should mean saving fuel whenever you can, IMHO.

SQ · Post by SQ » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:18 am

do you mean you're doing a contact/visual approach as much as you can ?
what type do you ride ?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:18 am

unless your up front, you have no idea what type of approach they did.

Braun · Post by **Braun** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:01 am

I also have a jazz SOP particularly for the dash pilots out there. Not sure if it's the same but anyways, what does your SOP say about visual approaches and the requirements? An air canada pilot said he needed the glidepath to do a visual the other day, just curious.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:40 am

you guys ARE aware of the Jazz forum, aren't you??

Might get more answers over there.

Braun · Post by **Braun** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:45 am

Haha yeah, but I figured there was already a thread here and didn't want to make a second one! 2 birds with one stone eh?

Canoehead · Post by **Canoehead** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:05 am

SQ wrote:do you mean you're doing a contact/visual approach as much as you can ?
what type do you ride ?

I personally do visuals as much as possible, and contacts if I feel the FSS guy might be overdue for writing up a CADORS

Braun wrote:I also have a jazz SOP particularly for the dash pilots out there. Not sure if it's the same but anyways, what does your SOP say about visual approaches and the requirements? An air canada pilot said he needed the glidepath to do a visual the other day, just curious.

Nothing other than the usual requirements for a visual. No, a G/P is not required for us to conduct a visual with the DH8. The FMS if programmed properly can give you VNAV to almost anywhere though, and can be a great tool for visuals...

Braun · Post by **Braun** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:10 am

Alright thanks appreciate, was just curious because sometimes we give the visual via the marker at 4 final 3000' or above til final and these dash8's just drive straight to the marker at 3000' and then dive to the runway.

drifter · Post by **drifter** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:33 pm

I have a question for the dash guys as well. What restrictions are they refering to when they say "standard company restrictions in the clearance." Is it the 11K within 10 DME that everyone else gets as well?

SQ · Post by SQ » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:29 pm

Canoehead wrote:The FMS if programmed properly can give you VNAV to almost anywhere though, and can be a great tool for visuals...

good to know
what point do you program in the FM ? and what point for a visual ? I ask that cause what if ATC changes planned sequences.

AuxBatOn · Post by **AuxBatOn** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:39 pm

SQ wrote:
Canoehead wrote:The FMS if programmed properly can give you VNAV to almost anywhere though, and can be a great tool for visuals...
good to know
what point do you program in the FM ? and what point for a visual ? I ask that cause what if ATC changes planned sequences.

Just a WAG here, but I'd guess a 5 miles fix from threshold

AuxBatOn

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:47 pm

Not a jazzer, but I'd say the threshold is the waypoint with a 3 degree glideslope to a 50 foot crossing height, temperature compensated too if you want.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:42 pm

drifter wrote:I have a question for the dash guys as well. What restrictions are they refering to when they say "standard company restrictions in the clearance." Is it the 11K within 10 DME that everyone else gets as well?

I'm not on the Dash anymore but we always got that clearance coming out of Penticton. Its an actual plate in our Jeps that states the restriction. If I recall it was 10,000 within 13 DME going one way and some other restriction going the other way. (I guess I could go downstairs and look it up but that would require going down 2 flights of stairs and I'm just not that motivated right now!! LOL)

As for visuals and contacts, I haven't really noticed a difference between the RJ and Dash. We do just as many on the jet. If we can do it safely we will.

One other point for the guys and gals flying around in Northern BC (CMA, Pasco etc etc) As much as we would love to cancel the IFR at night to help people waiting to get in or out, our Ops manual says we can't do it. Daytime is not a problem but at night they want us to keep the clearance to the ground. Just wanted you all to know that we're not trying to be rude and hold anyone up, we simply aren't allowed to cancel.

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:59 pm

Nothing other than the usual requirements for a visual. No, a G/P is not required for us to conduct a visual with the DH8.

We didn't need a G/P to do visuals in the High Arctic once we saw the runway when we were flying the DC3's and DC6's either, it sure would have limited where we could land if we had to have one.

Canoehead · Post by **Canoehead** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:30 pm

SQ wrote:
Canoehead wrote:The FMS if programmed properly can give you VNAV to almost anywhere though, and can be a great tool for visuals...
good to know
what point do you program in the FM ? and what point for a visual ? I ask that cause what if ATC changes planned sequences.

All depends on where you are and what you're doing (and who you're driving with). I use it occasionally going into quiet airports where ATC has cleared us for the visual way back a while ago...
I don't use the FMS going into YYZ for any VNAV on a visual (or any airport that involves vectors in close to the field).
Keep in mind the Dash hand flies in just like all the light turbines out there (IMHO), so more often than not, 'ya just eyeball it and drive 'er on in'

...And ditto to bcflyer's comment about cancelling the IFR. We do it when we can, but especially in the winter months, there's not as much 'day' flying. I believe it may be a requirement of the Star Alliance agreements (?!)

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