Osama (?) pops up and accuses pope of inciting a new crusade

[Widow]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7307107.stm

"It can be said with a high degree of confidence that it is in fact the voice of Osama Bin Laden," a CIA official told Reuters news agency.

The voice on the recording says the cartoon, re-published recently in all major Danish newspapers, was part of a "new crusade" in which Pope Benedict XVI had played a "large and lengthy role".

[blackbear]

Then Ben Laden should listen twice to the message of the Pope : Benedict XVI was against the publication of this kind of cartoons for the respect of any kind of religion.

[rotorhead350]

f*** all religions............................

[lucky37]

f*** all religions............................

Right on!

"Imagine there's no heaven,
it's easy if you try.
No hell below us.
Above us only sky.
Imagine all the people,
living for today."

[fanspeed]

f*** all religions............................

Right on!

"Imagine there's no heaven,
it's easy if you try.
No hell below us.
Above us only sky.
Imagine all the people,
living for today."

X2!

[Dust Devil]

F*** Lennon. The Beatles were damn dirty hippies.

[Tubthumper]

Hey, just give Jesus a try..... if you don't like Him, the devil will always take you back.

[blackbear]

f*** all religions............................

I respect your opinion, but what makes you say that ?

[. ._]

It'll be interesting to hear what the Americans are quoting Bin Laden as saying when he's 140 years old.

"STAY SAFE!! BE VIGILANT!! SHOP AT THE MALL!!!!"

The dude's hanging out at his cousin's place in Saudi Arabia banging Indian whores with a steady drip of dialysis and Viagra.

-istp

[Phaedrus]

What, no video?

OBL is dead.
He's been dead since 2001/2002.
Al Qaeda translated = Foundation. Read your Asimov....

[taxiway_matthew]

A crusade? Where do I sign up?
We are over due teehee.

[JakeYYZ]

The cartoons are an excellent nonviolent way of asserting western values in western nations.
If Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, and everyone else can endure criticism, the same can be expected of Muslims. Islamic 'winning through intimidation' practices cannot be tolerated. Muslims will not desist until it is made unequivocally clear that they will lose this game.

[Mostly Harmless]

A crusade? Where do I sign up?
We are over due teehee.
A crusade? Where do I sign up?
We are over due teehee.

What about an Inquisition? Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZQI0Xm29To

[sky's the limit]

The F'in Pope should be tossed in jail. Collectively they're responsible for more death and suffering than any other instituaiton in history.

I LOVE them always telling the poor bastard's in Africa that if they use condom's they'll go to hell.... NICE. 70 MILLION of them have AIDS, and that usless piece of $hit is preaching AGAINST contraceptives.

What a world.

stl

[JakeYYZ]

STL, put on a Barry Manilow record and take a bubble bath.

[fogghorn]

F*** Lennon. The Beatles were damn dirty hippies.

You have my vote on that one. I will say I didnt mind star (he wasnt bad on shining time stn ), but they were still a bunch of new age flakes. As far as I am concerned, the beatles were the vanguard of the sordid degenerate implants who started the total disintegration of society that has taken place over the past 40 years - from what we knew in our culture. ( As flawed as it was - at least there was some semblance of decency and consequences for bad actions in our culture )

[blackbear]

The F'in Pope should be tossed in jail. Collectively they're responsible for more death and suffering than any other instituaiton in history.
I LOVE them always telling the poor bastard's in Africa that if they use condom's they'll go to hell.... NICE. 70 MILLION of them have AIDS, and that usless piece of $hit is preaching AGAINST contraceptives.
What a world.

stl

In what the pope is responsible for that ? Is it the Pope to f.... them one by one to transmit AIDS ?
You just listened to one sentence, out of context; and you repeat this sentence as many people, without even thinking about the meaning. It is so in the trend to be against the religion those days.

The total message of the Pope is adressed to catholic and believers : so, if you're not catholic and even more not a believer, why should you feel concerned ? You're telling me that, in Africa, one of the biggest place of muslims in the world, they have AIDS because they're listening to the Pope ?

The message about the condom is to be faithful to your wife/husband so you shouldn't need condom to protect you from AIDS. Faithfulness is the best way to protect yourself from everything. When you see that some clients of prostitutes they want to have sex and ask it to be done without without condoms, is that the fault of the Pope ? They know the risk, and they don't care. They don't care and don't think they can get AIDS, but the worse is that they don't even think about giving it back to any future sex partner. So this kind of people are the most selfish you can imagine, they just think about their own pleasure and the way thay want it, and that's the fault of the Pope ?
When they ear this message, people should be responsible : in the original message of the Church, you're supposed to have only one person in your life. Is it true those days: No. And when a catholic person, want to have sex with a girl or with a guy, this is to him/her as a person, as a human being to take the decision to put or not a condom. This person has a brain, this person is the only one to be able to protect the other or to protect him/herself from getting AIDS, not the Pope.

We are supposed to be mature people, and to be the ones to assume the consequences of our acts.
At first there's the message of the Church : after there's what the person wants to do with this message. Kill or not, steal or not and son on... That's an individual responsability.

People on the road exceeding speed and killing innocent, fault of the Pope ? Million of people dying in North Korea and in China, fault of the Pope ? MSN and Yahoo helping the chinese authorities to find the owners of tibet opponents sites, fault of the Pope ? Irak war, fault of the Pope ?

When a Pope has a message of peace and love for humans, please, just look around you before criticizing him...

[altiplano]

I say DEATHMATCH.

Muslim vs Christian extremists....

Round 1

Virgin waiting for Osama in Heaven vs.



Pat Robertson

[taxiway_matthew]

The F'in Pope should be tossed in jail. Collectively they're responsible for more death and suffering than any other instituaiton in history.
I LOVE them always telling the poor bastard's in Africa that if they use condom's they'll go to hell.... NICE. 70 MILLION of them have AIDS, and that usless piece of $hit is preaching AGAINST contraceptives.
What a world.

stl

In what the pope is responsible for that ? Is it the Pope to f.... them one by one to transmit AIDS ?
You just listened to one sentence, out of context; and you repeat this sentence as many people, without even thinking about the meaning. It is so in the trend to be against the religion those days.

The total message of the Pope is adressed to catholic and believers : so, if you're not catholic and even more not a believer, why should you feel concerned ? You're telling me that, in Africa, one of the biggest place of muslims in the world, they have AIDS because they're listening to the Pope ?

The message about the condom is to be faithful to your wife/husband so you shouldn't need condom to protect you from AIDS. Faithfulness is the best way to protect yourself from everything. When you see that some clients of prostitutes they want to have sex and ask it to be done without without condoms, is that the fault of the Pope ? They know the risk, and they don't care. They don't care and don't think they can get AIDS, but the worse is that they don't even think about giving it back to any future sex partner. So this kind of people are the most selfish you can imagine, they just think about their own pleasure and the way thay want it, and that's the fault of the Pope ?
When they ear this message, people should be responsible : in the original message of the Church, you're supposed to have only one person in your life. Is it true those days: No. And when a catholic person, want to have sex with a girl or with a guy, this is to him/her as a person, as a human being to take the decision to put or not a condom. This person has a brain, this person is the only one to be able to protect the other or to protect him/herself from getting AIDS, not the Pope.

We are supposed to be mature people, and to be the ones to assume the consequences of our acts.
At first there's the message of the Church : after there's what the person wants to do with this message. Kill or not, steal or not and son on... That's an individual responsability.

People on the road exceeding speed and killing innocent, fault of the Pope ? Million of people dying in North Korea and in China, fault of the Pope ? MSN and Yahoo helping the chinese authorities to find the owners of tibet opponents sites, fault of the Pope ? Irak war, fault of the Pope ?

When a Pope has a message of peace and love for humans, please, just look around you before criticizing him...

Well said, much more eloquent than I could have put it.

[Sheila]

Bin Laden must be working for these guys

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Re ... 1988866222

Bin Laden could feel threatened and angry about the news today that the Pope baptized a prominent Italian Muslim. But most people know Easter is the time when people who want to become Christians are baptized. Some people need to get a grip.


This is what really happened that time,

"The Pope and the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue have criticized the satirical campaign with Islam on more than one occasion," he affirmed.

Respect

In the midst of the initial controversy surrounding the cartoons, Benedict XVI said on Feb. 20, 2006: "In the international context we are living at present, the Catholic Church continues convinced that, to foster peace and understanding between peoples and men, it is necessary and urgent that religions and their symbols be respected."

The Holy Father added on that occasion that this implies that "believers not be the object of provocations that wound their lives and religious sentiments."

At the same time, Benedict XVI made it clear that "intolerance and violence can never be justified as response to offenses, as they are not compatible responses with the sacred principles of religion."

His 2006 comments came in an address to Ali Achour, then Morocco's new ambassador to the Holy See.

This March 5, the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue announced at the conclusion of a two-day meeting with Muslim scholars in the Vatican the establishment of a Catholic-Muslim Forum.

The Vatican meeting came as a development following a response from Benedict XVI to a group of 138 Muslim scholars who wrote the Pope and other Christian leaders last Oct. 11.



© Innovative Media, Inc.

Reprinting ZENIT's articles requires written permission from the editor.

[lucky37]

It is so in the trend to be against the religion

Well I hope very much that trend continues. People are starting to wake up to the facts and stand against an oppressive force that has attempted to hamper knowledge, freedom, and happiness for a long, long time.

When you have evangelicals (like Pat Robertson above) linking feminism with killing children and so on, you have the problem of ignorance leading to fear, hatred and oppression. When you have people spreading negative messages against gays because gays simply choose to live another lifestyle, you have the problem of creating a culture of hatred and discrimination. When you try to make laws that adhere to the teachings of the Bible, you have the problem of the loss of peoples' freedom. When you teach children that humans existed alongside dinosaurs and that the earth is only 6000 years or so old, you have an even bigger problem of creating a complete ignorance of science and hindering the advancement of knowledge. And when you have people who want to ban condoms and sexual education, you have the problem of promoting ignorance that leads to suffering (sex is natural, not something to be detested... there is no "sin", only the breaking of laws).

Anyone who is for this madness is part of a problem that keeps discrimination alive, breeds hatred and oppression through fear, and promotes ignorance.

I do understand the popular message of most religions and that is a message of peace, love and acceptance. That is all good, but not adhered to. The problem with religions is that the people who follow them think THEY are the ones who are always right, that THEIR God is the true God, and that they can do no wrong. Therein lies the biggest problem of all... it creates segregation; sides are chosen and you are either for them or against them. And when you have two groups who think they are the "chosen" ones and can do no wrong, you have an enormous problem.

In the absence of religion you have no groups thinking they are superior than another by divine right, no groups berating each other with a holier-than-thou attitude. You have only mankind existing together on the same planet with the same goal in mind: to better the world.

I would rather be on the side of mankind, looking for solutions to make this world a better place, than to spend my life trying to please a non-existent being through self-guilt while at the same time wanting more than anything to leave this crummy world for a better place.

(That reminds me of James Watt, former Secretary to the Interior during Ronald Reagan's times who said, "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."... Makes you wonder if Christians everywhere would smile at the sight of the world coming to an end because their "saviour" was coming... scary).

This is all we have, so we have to strive to improve the world for everybody and to live for today!

[lucky37]

People should reject God defiantly in order to pour out all their loving solicitude upon mankind.
- Albert Camus

We have just enough religion to make us hate but not enough religion to make us love one another.
- Jonathan Swift

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca

There is in every village a torch - the teacher: and an extinguisher - the clergyman.
- Victor Hugo

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
- Albert Einstein

I always distrust people who know so much about what God wants them to do to their fellows.
- Susan B. Anthony

Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.
- James Madison

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
- Arthur C. Clarke

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.
- Richard Dawkins

Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
- Denis Diderot

All religions bear traces of the fact that they arose during the intellectual immaturity of the human race before it had learned the obligations to speak the truth. Not one of them makes it the duty of its God to be truthful and understandable in his communications.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

The wretchedness of religion is at once an expression and a protest against real wretchedness. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions. It is the opium of the people.
- Karl Marx

Religion is just mind control.
- George Carlin

I turned to speak to God,
About the world's despair;
But to make bad matters worse,
I found God wasn't there.
- Robert Frost

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.
- Gene Roddenberry

If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine - but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good and CARES about any of it - to hang is all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.
- Frank Zappa

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human invention, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
- Thomas Paine

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams

Convictions are greater enemies of truth than lies.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Good people do good things and bad people to bad things, but only religion can make good people do bad things.
-Richard Dawkins

[grimey]

The total message of the Pope is adressed to catholic and believers : so, if you're not catholic and even more not a believer, why should you feel concerned ? You're telling me that, in Africa, one of the biggest place of muslims in the world, they have AIDS because they're listening to the Pope ?

There are close to 400 million Christians in Africa, roughly 140 millon of them Catholic. Many of them have AIDS. Many of those cases could have been prevented by using condoms. Many who aren't Catholic receive guidance on dealing with the disease from the Catholic church, guidance which specifically says not to use condoms.

Most of the Muslims live in countries that don't have a high rate of HIV infection, like Egypt, Libya, Somalia, etc. And the Muslim countries in Africa that do have an AIDS problem, like Sudan? They've reversed their ban on selling condoms.

The message about the condom is to be faithful to your wife/husband so you shouldn't need condom to protect you from AIDS. Faithfulness is the best way to protect yourself from everything. When you see that some clients of prostitutes they want to have sex and ask it to be done without without condoms, is that the fault of the Pope ? They know the risk, and they don't care. They don't care and don't think they can get AIDS, but the worse is that they don't even think about giving it back to any future sex partner. So this kind of people are the most selfish you can imagine, they just think about their own pleasure and the way thay want it, and that's the fault of the Pope ?

You're ignorant of the methods through which many in Africa contracted AIDS, and the level of health care available. Many DON'T KNOW they have it. Many got it by being raped, many others were born with it. But continue with your delusions. You can continue all day blaming the disease on those with loose morals, but this does nothing to stop it, and fails to recognize a basic human fact: PEOPLE HAVE SEX EVEN IF THEIR RELIGIOUS LEADERS TELL THEM NOT TO.

When they ear this message, people should be responsible : in the original message of the Church, you're supposed to have only one person in your life. Is it true those days: No. And when a catholic person, want to have sex with a girl or with a guy, this is to him/her as a person, as a human being to take the decision to put or not a condom. This person has a brain, this person is the only one to be able to protect the other or to protect him/herself from getting AIDS, not the Pope.

So hypothetically, if the Pope was advocating drug abuse, and overdose related deaths skyrocketed amongst Catholics, he'd be in the clear?

People on the road exceeding speed and killing innocent, fault of the Pope ? Million of people dying in North Korea and in China, fault of the Pope ? MSN and Yahoo helping the chinese authorities to find the owners of tibet opponents sites, fault of the Pope ? Irak war, fault of the Pope ?

You don't know what a strawman is, do you? The Pope hasn't advocated speeding, totalitarian socialist governments, or the Iraq war.

[blackbear]

Well I hope very much that trend continues. People are starting to wake up to the facts and stand against an oppressive force that has attempted to hamper knowledge, freedom, and happiness for a long, long time.

Hi lucky37, thank you for expressing your opinion the way you did. At least you show to some people here that it is possible to have a divergent opinion and still show respect for the one you don't agree with. It makes communication better and clearer

When you have evangelicals (like Pat Robertson above) linking feminism with killing children and so on, you have the problem of ignorance leading to fear, hatred and oppression.

Your point is interresting. At the origin of this topic, it was OBL vs Pope. You're mentioning P. Robertson and this man, you can not associate him to the Pope ; same book, and way different to spread the message of God. I am sorry if I will hurt some people, but I personaly associate this kind of Evangelist to a business man or an artist. I mean, if this person is not known, this person won't have his money. What's the best way to be shown on TV and heard on radio today ? Well the same receipe that journalists and other medias people are using : you need to provocate a reaction to the spectator / auditor. What's the best to get their attention ? Shock them, or scare them. 9/11 becomes the beginning of the 3rd war in the headlines; at the stock markets, the correction we were waiting for many months, when it finaly arrives, it becomes the worse crisis since the last world war. And then the people are scared, then the people are feeling fear, they want to know more, they want to watch more, they want read more. The result ? Big raising audience for TVs (increase of benefits with advertising), higher sale for the newspapers too.
The relation with your P. Robertson and other colleagues ? They spray lots of provocating stuffs, medias love them because it is good for their own audience so for their own market, and they are financing indirectly the advertissment of those Evangelists. This 1 minute showing Robertson during the TV news will have a better impact on people than any kind of ads. When you go to their mass, you should say you go to a show ; you go to a real one man show. Who's the star ? Not God, but Paterson, the one who will receive the money. For sure you have in mind some artists who have as only talent the provocation: same for Paterson.

When you have people spreading negative messages against gays because gays simply choose to live another lifestyle, you have the problem of creating a culture of hatred and discrimination. When you try to make laws that adhere to the teachings of the Bible, you have the problem of the loss of peoples' freedom. When you teach children that humans existed alongside dinosaurs and that the earth is only 6000 years or so old, you have an even bigger problem of creating a complete ignorance of science and hindering the advancement of knowledge. And when you have people who want to ban condoms and sexual education, you have the problem of promoting ignorance that leads to suffering (sex is natural, not something to be detested... there is no "sin", only the breaking of laws).

In the last catechism of the catholic church published 15 or 20 years ago by JP II, homosexuals are mentionned in it : what you can read in it is that, even if it is not approved by the Church, a catholic shall not have disrespect toward them. You see it is far from the attitude of Paterson.
About the origin of the humans, we shall not forget that the Bible has been written many centuries ago, at a time it was hard to have the knowledge we have now.
Eve and Adam, to my eyes, they are just an image, a representation to describe the beginning of humanity. You imagine the Bible saying "At first, God created an atom, then a cell..." : imagine how hard it would have been to understand the message... So again, I do truly believe in the evolution and can not agree with Paterson's explanation.
Sex is natural, and so do recognize the Chruch between married couples : it is union, sharing, giving and receiving love. Church wants partners to respect themselves, the woman to be respected and not have the rule of a sex toy. Look at some teenagers guys now : they quite want their girl friend to act as porn star now... Is it normal ?

Anyone who is for this madness is part of a problem that keeps discrimination alive, breeds hatred and oppression through fear, and promotes ignorance.
I do understand the popular message of most religions and that is a message of peace, love and acceptance. That is all good, but not adhered to. The problem with religions is that the people who follow them think THEY are the ones who are always right, that THEIR God is the true God, and that they can do no wrong. Therein lies the biggest problem of all... it creates segregation; sides are chosen and you are either for them or against them. And when you have two groups who think they are the "chosen" ones and can do no wrong, you have an enormous problem.
In the absence of religion you have no groups thinking they are superior than another by divine right, no groups berating each other with a holier-than-thou attitude. You have only mankind existing together on the same planet with the same goal in mind: to better the world.

The problem is not the religion itself, but what humans, or I should say, what some humans do with it. Imagine, as in the J. Lennon's song, a world without religion today. So, we have conflict based on ethnics group like Rwanda, and Suddan based on their race, arabs attacking blacks. China wants its own expansion in Tibet. Bush wants oil in Irak. You see, we are far to have a peaceful world without religion. Humans will unfortunately still find a way to make wars.

I would rather be on the side of mankind, looking for solutions to make this world a better place, than to spend my life trying to please a non-existent being through self-guilt while at the same time wanting more than anything to leave this crummy world for a better place. (That reminds me of James Watt, former Secretary to the Interior during Ronald Reagan's times who said, "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."... Makes you wonder if Christians everywhere would smile at the sight of the world coming to an end because their "saviour" was coming... scary).
This is all we have, so we have to strive to improve the world for everybody and to live for today!

Franckly, I prefer a non-believer who believes in peace and try the best to respect the other, than a supposed priest spreading fear, ignorance to make his own business.
Evangelists in America are like asian restaurants : multitude of differents churches and motivated in bringing in their own churches as much clients as possible. In Europe, they quite don't exist. If you go to a mass there, this is not a show. No need to have all people crying loudly all together to be true believers and sincere. If you go there and don't give money, you're still part of the community. Priests have the minimum legal salary and their faith to live. Priests have a real faith in these conditions : they have no material reward in exchange of the poor life they have. Give the same life to the TV Stars Evangelists, give them the same salaries, and see how many of them will be still priest few months after...

[taxiway_matthew]

Thanks for wasting board space lucky, most of those people are tools, Dawkins in particular.

Aren't these debates fun If people keep it civil, maybe this discussion can, in its only little way, affect change. But knowing AV's track record, I doubt it, but its worth a shot.

You can continue all day blaming the disease on those with loose morals, but this does nothing to stop it, and fails to recognize a basic human fact: PEOPLE HAVE SEX EVEN IF THEIR RELIGIOUS LEADERS TELL THEM NOT TO.

This is one of those ends don't justify da means things, to a certain extent. From a Church point of view, yes, everyone's going to sin, and some people are going to do the dew even if Father Nice Guy says not to. The problem next is that the Church can't provide an easy scapegoat to sin. It can forgive said sin, and offer a path to goodyness, but its not going to sit there and say, "this is ok, to keep your sin safe"
The way I see it, condoms are like a fullsuit of armour. The more protection you think you have, the more promiscuous you're going to be. If I have a full suit of armour, I'm going to run into the highway, jump off my house, wrestle a bear, etc. Same with condoms, if you think you're invincible and your man spooge is going no where, you're going to have more sex, because the natural consequences aren't there. Now let's face it, condoms are not 100% effective, they may be very good, but their not perfect, and therein lies the problem. If my suit of armour is only 99% protective, my chances of injury are significantly increased because I'm risking lots.
Now seeing we're making general assumptions about human behaviour (ie. Someone's bound to have sex no matter what Father says) then here's one: people are going to have more sex the safer they feel. You can't hand guys condoms, tell them that it's almost fool-proof and expect them not to use 'em. Ridiculous. You know it, I know it.
And THAT's the problem.
Its simple mathematics, the more condoms you pump into the system, the 1% failure rate increases expotentially. If you put 1 condom into the system, and one couple has sex, and gets AIDS, thats 2 people out of millions who have AIDS. But give 'em to millions, and those millions are having sex, then its thousands, eventually millions, who contract the disease.
I mean c'mon, every year there's more and more condoms being pumped into those African countries, and every year AIDS gets worse and worse, and all the Catholic Church is saying is hey, if you want to sin, we're not going to try and legitimize that sin, but not only that, if you want a solution, you need to take a step back. Pumping millions of condoms into these countries is NOT the solution.

I find it funny how those who get mad at the Church don't realize one simple fact. (Assuming most AIDS is contracted through extra-marrital sex) People are not going to commit the major sin (Extra-marrital sex) then while committing that major sin, adhere to something "smaller" (that being condom use). If I'm having pre-martial hankyparnky with some girl, I'm not going to go, "dear, I'm not using a condom b/c the Church says so". I'm already committing the big whamy of pre-marital, everything else, really is incidental.

And for everyone who thinks religion is a crock of shit, look at the work of Mr. Teresa, and JPII, they, and like most Christians, do the work God wants us to do. Don't let a few bad apples spoil it all.

But then youre going to hit me with crusade/inquisition bs, so I'm going to ask you, what good has athieism done us? Did the crusades kill 20million innocent, non-combatants like Stalin did?

Merci Beaucoup for anyone who actually read that. I just want a civil discussion. I feel sometimes our viewpoint is pissed upon because how tempermental the otherside can be.