FFDO Accidental Discharge...Major OOPS!

[Intentional Left Bank]

CHARLOTTE, N.C.-- A US Airways pilot’s gun accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte Saturday, according to as statement released by the airline. The statement said the discharge happened on Flight 1536, which left Denver at approximately 6:45am and arrived in Charlotte at approximately 11:51am. The Airbus A319 plane landed safely and none of the flight’s 124 passengers or five crew members was injured, according to the statement.

More here.

[Splatm]

Hmmm, they said the airplane was never in danger. I guess it had one of those bullet-proof glass cockpits

[unknowingly upsidedown]

"don't worry i know what i'm doing. its not even loaded"

[Northern Skies]

There's no excuse for a negligent discharge.

I wonder what/how he was carrying? I would bet on a chambered, cocked 1911! There's a reason why they invented DA/SA and decockers.

[North Shore]

There's a reason why they invented DA/SA and decockers.

DA/SA is what, please?

As for the last - Lorena Bobbitt?

[Northern Skies]

ok.... single action: hammer must be cocked for gun to fire. In a semi-auto, the slide is racked to achieve this state, called "condition one". It's ready to go. When fired, slide cocks hammer and gun returns to this state. Trigger pull is light and crisp for accurate fire. Browning Hi-powers and 1911's are an example of this design (and they are fabulous guns), as are the old cowboy revolvers. Most carry these without a round in the chamber, requiring that the slide be racked when the gun is drawn (this does use time when seconds count, though). This was how the military ordered them to be carried. Some people down there carry it ready to fire, and I'm really curious to hear whether the pilot was doing this or not as I can't think of another decent reason why this could happen. (edit...unless it was a revolver with the hammer at half-cock over a loaded chamber, those should be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. Those are the most likely reasons, anything else would be extremely negligent. Mechanical malfunctions are rare and precautions are used to account for them as well)

Double action: hammer is cocked and released by the trigger pull (a long, heavy trigger pull. Inaccurate fire). Safer because the hammer is not under spring tension against the sear, ready to send the firing pin into the primer. Not as safe as an empty chamber. You can carry with a round chambered with more safety than an single action, but the gun is not as easy to fire or accurate.

DA/SA: A combination. Gun is carried with a round in the chamber so it can be drawn and fired immediately, however the hammer is down and the firing pin is blocked by a trigger safety so that it doesn't rest on the primer. The first shot is double-action, with the trigger cocking the hammer and releasing it. The following shots are the preferable single action. When gun is holstered, the decocking lever is used to lower the hammer onto the blocked firing pin for safe carry. With these you can draw and fire immediately from safe carry, and still have a good gun. Most modern revolvers have similar operation.

There are safety switches as well but the rule about a safety is, never trust a safety.

Of course you know that in Canada, you may only carry with an authorization to do so under strict conditions. To get such a permit you must be an LEO, armed security, prospector, or bush pilot, or be able to clearly show cause for it's need (good luck with that!)

[Snowgoose]

If you build a plane with retractable gear, it's only a matter of time before someone lands gear up.

If you let people carry guns in cockpits, it's only a matter of time before one goes off.

It's not probable, but it's possible. Luckily it didn't end up in the other guys forehead.

[Rockie]

Hijackings foiled by armed pilots - 0
Accidental shots fired in cockpit - 1

GREAT idea arming a bunch of Wyatt Earp wannabes in the cockpit! Bunch of f*****g clowns.

[mellow_pilot]

There's no excuse for a negligent discharge.

I wonder what/how he was carrying? I would bet on a chambered, cocked 1911! There's a reason why they invented DA/SA and decockers.

That`s like saying that theres no excuse for a gear-up landing.

There is a reason these things are called accidents. The only pay to prevent it is to remove the possibility, and that means removing guns, and se all know how likely that is in the US.

Besides, it`s not like the gun is going to help you when the guy coming through the door has boiling coffee to throw in your face.

[Dash-Ate]

Paging Nark to the thread

Gun licence required as a part of ATPL one day? Only in the usa.

[unknowingly upsidedown]

Paging Nark to the thread

Gun licence required as a part of ATPL one day? Only in the usa.

i don't think there are gun licenses in the USA are there?

[ottawa,kan]

No gun licenses required, but if you want to carry concealed then you need a permit. No registration for guns either.

[Donald]

Wanna bet that if you pull the CVR, you will hear:

"Hey, watch this"

or

"Yee-haw!"

or

"Yippe-Ki-Yay-M****ERF***ER"

[Big Pistons Forever]

FFDO guns are supplied by the Government and are I believe the FBI pattern 10mm pistol with a special reduced velocity round. FFDO pilots get a 1 week course. Personally I think the fact it has taken this long for a ND incident speaks rather highly of the training and the responsibilty of the FFDO participants. However at the end of the day this program has more to do with the Americans fascination with guns than any rational aviation security requirement. Remember guys its supposed to be "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" not "Ventilate, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate"

[Rudy]

Hijackings foiled by armed pilots - 0
Accidental shots fired in cockpit - 1

Not true. An American Airlines DC-6 captain shot and killed an armed hijacker in 1954. Not that I'm condoning guns in the cockpit.

[Rockie]

Hijackings foiled by armed pilots - 0
Accidental shots fired in cockpit - 1

Not true. An American Airlines DC-6 captain shot and killed an armed hijacker in 1954. Not that I'm condoning guns in the cockpit.

I had to look it up, but you're right. It was a 15 year old boy carrying an inoperative and unloaded revolver who wanted to go to Mexico. Captain shot him once in the hip and once in the chest killing him. I'm sure if he simply yelled at the kid to go back to his seat the hijacking would have been over too but hey, he's a hero right?

[Rudy]

I didn't say he was. In fact he never forgave himself. Just a fact.

[Flying Low]

I had to look it up, but you're right. It was a 15 year old boy carrying an inoperative and unloaded revolver who wanted to go to Mexico. Captain shot him once in the hip and once in the chest killing him. I'm sure if he simply yelled at the kid to go back to his seat the hijacking would have been over too but hey, he's a hero right?

Ah yes...that magic ability to tell if the gun currently being waved around is real, fake, loaded or not and, the best of all abilities, to tell if the gun works or not. If you have this ability please...don't waste your time on an aviation forum...your skills are much needed elsewhere!

[Liquid Charlie]

There was a time even in canada where a hand gun could be carried in and airplane but that was many years ago -- last guy I knew who did it and had a permit to carry such was back in the 70's -- I think he was more afraid of husbands than hijackers --

[xsbank]

Accidental discharge?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I had a permit to carry a 357 Magnum for years, somewhere around 1974 or thereabouts all the permits to carry were cancelled.

But I still have it at home as a reminder of a different time.

[Rockie]

I didn't say he was. In fact he never forgave himself. Just a fact.

That wasn't directed at you Rudy, your opinion on the issue was clearly stated in your post. It was directed at the shoot first/don't bother asking questions Rambo crowd. If that pilot never forgave himself it demonstrates his humanity above those who wouldn't lose a minutes sleep, and there are too many of those. Guns have no place in the flight deck and it's too bad the guy who had the "accidental discharge" didn't shoot himself in the foot. The irony would have been delicious.

[sanjet]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_ ... n_on_plane

Photos show bullet damage to plane

"This is an extremely safe and reliable weapon," said Greg Alter of the Federal Air Marshal Service. "It's not going to discharge on its own, is the bottom line."

Just how the hell do you explain this one to management!??!

dumbass.jpg (65.91 KiB) Viewed 2314 times

[small penguin]

For the bullet to have travelled like that the pilot had to have been holding the pistol. Now the question is... WHY was he holding the pistol? It'll be neat to find out what the audio tapes have to say.

[grimey]

For the bullet to have travelled like that the pilot had to have been holding the pistol. Now the question is... WHY was he holding the pistol? It'll be neat to find out what the audio tapes have to say.

Anyone else picturing an Eastwood impersonation on the CVR? What do you do if your Captain accidentally shoots himself mid flight?

Hijackings foiled by asking me if I packed my own bags - 0

This one predates 9/11 by several years.