The Garmin 196 spat

[Hedley]

***Edited*** stl

[carholme]

Hedley;

Sorry to inform you that it was not I who ratted on you. You can take that up with the mods.

carholme

[small penguin]

Didnt that flight get all sorts of terrain and airspeed low warnings and stick shakes but the crew opted to follow the indications of pitot static instruments? I seem to recall an episode on TV about it... or a similar incident.

Hedley, using a page to cover the instrument is an idea I'd never have considered. How would you get it to hold over the instrument? I'd assume no tape available... maybe tuck it in between the glass the the rim?

[Hedley]

Use one of the knobs sticking out, like the
AI knob. Punch the torn-out CFS page
over the knob.

Also, what's great for covering up gyros
is those yellow stickies, which you should
have along anyways for marking pages
in the CFS and CAP.

[CID]

I have demonstrated using a G196 as a sole
source of flight information. But again,
I doubt anyone here really cares about
any facts. Also, I doubt anyone here thinks
their life is worth more than a G196,
and for most people here, I must agree.

Hedley, are you suggesting a GPS is a replacement for an attitude indicator?

[small penguin]

I dont think he's suggesting its a replacement. But he's probably suggesting it makes the best damned backup you could have in the event the primary instrument(s) fail.

[Hedley]

Hedley, are you suggesting a GPS is a replacement for an attitude indicator?

Sigh. No, I said that in an emergency, if you
lose your gyros (vacuum, electric) and heck,
even if you lose your pitot/static instruments,
you can still fly an aircraft solely by reference
to the emulated panel of the G196. You
can also use it to fly an overlaid approach.

I know this, because I have demonstrated it.

Is your experience different than mine? What
resulted from your piloting tests of using a GPS
emulated flight instrument panel as a sole reference?

Everyone here thinks I am a lot dumber,
a lot more inexperienced, and a lot less
skilled a pilot than they are. Ok, I will
buy into your obnoxious rhetoric.

But when I fly IFR these days, its
with a G530 in the panel, another
old king GPS in the panel, a G496
on the yoke (with XM satellite wx,
despite the Cdn govt's best efforts
to deny me it) and with a G196
with fresh batteries for complete
standalone backup.

But then again, I'm not as good a pilot
as the non-flying internet experts here,
or even as smart as a CEO owner/operator

Ok, moderators, censor this post too!
I'm sure someone's feelings are hurt
now, and we CAN'T have that.

[CID]

Sigh. No, I said that in an emergency, if you
lose your gyros (vacuum, electric) and heck,
even if you lose your pitot/static instruments,
you can still fly an aircraft solely by reference
to the emulated panel of the G196.

OK, so you are saying you can use a GPS as a replacement for "gyros". I don't think anyone is denying you are an aviation god Hedley. In this case however, you are just plain wrong and I sure as hell hope nobody reading this buys in your rhetoric.

[Hedley]

you are just plain wrong

My conclusion, CID, was based on an experiment.

I made a data-driven conclusion.

What data is your conclusion based on?

I will gladly demonstrate, to anyone who
cares, an overlaid non-precision instrument
approach using an economical, portable
G196 as a sole flight instrument reference.

I know this because I have done it before.

You?

Given the capabilities of the G196, I am
amazed that people don't carry one as
backup for IFR flight. I guess they don't
think their life and aircraft is worth $700.

Ok, moderators, start censoring!

[2milefinal]

I say what ever gets on the ground safely ....if its your AA powered GPS so be it.
Don't be afraid to think outside the box people. It might save your ass some day.
Have fun with it....thats all I have to say on this subject.

*For Emergency use ONLY*

[Hedley]

Suggestion: instead of indulging in speculation
and trusting to rumour and FUD, why not collect
some real, live data yourself?

Get a hood, and a G196. Mount it on the yoke
of your aircraft. Give it a try. You might be
surprised at how easy it is to fly an overlaid
approach using it. I certainly was.

And yes, this is FOR EMERGENCIES ONLY.

Now, I know that government types like
CID would prefer that when the certified
equipment die, we die with it. That's neat
and tidy. Keeps all the paperwork straight,
y'know.

But when the certified equipment dies,
and I have no other option, I might be
willing to try a non-certified piece of
equipment, instead of dying.

But I just work in the private sector. I
don't have an indexed government
pension, so what would I know?

[small penguin]

Sigh. No, I said that in an emergency, if you
lose your gyros (vacuum, electric) and heck,
even if you lose your pitot/static instruments,
you can still fly an aircraft solely by reference
to the emulated panel of the G196.

OK, so you are saying you can use a GPS as a replacement for "gyros". I don't think anyone is denying you are an aviation god Hedley. In this case however, you are just plain wrong and I sure as hell hope nobody reading this buys in your rhetoric.

I dont think he's suggesting its a replacement. But he's probably suggesting it makes the best damned backup you could have in the event the primary instrument(s) fail.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

For whatever it is worth I agree with Hedley and support his findings through having done the experiment myself.

[snoopy]

Well,
I for one am really relieved that people are promoting self-experimentation using a hood and a non-certified piece of equipment to test a theory on flying blind - in real live aircraft. So when some dumb schmuck takes you up on your advice, are you going to visit the families of the deceased? Do you not know, that even on an anonymous forum, your statements carry some degree of liability? Hedley, this does not surprise me - but .????
Cheers,
Snoopy

[Hedley]

I appreciate your threat, snoopy. Now run along,
adults are talking now.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Do you not know, that even on an anonymous forum, your statements carry some degree of liability? Hedley, this does not surprise me - but .????
Cheers,
Snoopy

Snoopy, my dear Snoopy....please allow me to explain why I agree with Hedley on this issue.

Science is the art of experimentation and examining the results.....if something works then it works......

Flying an experiment is not in its self dangerous...even using a hood, as long as you use the necessary precaution's to ensure safety.

Neither Hedley nor me suggested anyone fly by reference to a GPS as a method of flying...what we said is it could save your life if there was no other means of controlling the attitude of the airplane.

I also support the new paradigm knows as " velocity vector " that is being introduced in the electronic glass cockpit world.

Flying like every other activity in life evolves...we must be geared to evolve with technology that has been proven to work.

Now if you want to be like Hedley and me you should envision doing these exercises inverted just for the challenge it poses.

We still friends Snoop?

[Hedley]

. said:

Neither Hedley nor me suggested anyone fly by reference to a GPS as a method of flying...what we said is it could save your life if there was no other means of controlling the attitude of the airplane.

(jumping up and down) Right!! Right!!

Why oh why do pilots have such poor reading comprehension?

If you re-read my original postings on the subject, I am
suggesting using the G196 emulated panel IN AN EMERGENCY
ONLY when you have NO OTHER INSTRUMENTATION.

Is the above paragraph really that hard to understand? Could
my anti-fan club please risk tiring their lips out and re-read it?

Is it really that hard to understand that something (eg G196)
is better than nothing (eg certain death?)

What is wrong with you people, that you can't understand
such as simple concept, and instead repond by discarding
valid data, and threaten me with lawsuits?!

You can't possibly that dense, which leaves
as the only other possibility, that you do not wish
people to have emergency equipment, and you
want people to unnecessarily crash and die in the
future.

That's really frightening, people. What's it like,
to be that evil?

[snoopy]

Hedley,
Perhaps it is you that could use an exercise in reading comprehension. I said my piece, I meant what I said, if others do not agree with it, that is their right, and to be expected.
Cheers,
Snoopy

[Hedley]

What is wrong with you people, that you can't understand
such as simple concept, and instead repond by discarding
valid data, and threaten me with lawsuits?!

You can't possibly that dense, which leaves
as the only other possibility, that you do not wish
people to have emergency equipment, and you
want people to unnecessarily crash and die in the
future.

That's really frightening, people. What's it like,
to be that evil?

[Strega]

Hedley,,

I have done (practiced in "simulated IMC") the exact same thing with the 196, and it works as advertised!
This would save your bacon in an emergency when all other gyros have failed, plain and simple.



On another note, wouldnt the meridian have been flying on auto? and IIRC the newer autopilots do not use the attitude indicator and DG for flight reference.
ie STEC SYSTEM 30

and for the record, if the plane was a meridian and not a prop jet malibu, here are the specs:
STANDARD EQUIPPED LIST PRICE $1,896,500
ENGINE
Manufacturer Pratt & Whitney Canada
Model PT6A-42A
Thermodynamic Power 1090 SHP
Climb Power 500 SHP
Take-off Power(Flat Rated)

PROPELLER
Manufacturer Hartzell
Number of Blades 4
Type Constant Speed, Reversible
Diameter
82 in/208 cm

WEIGHTS
Maximum Take-off Weight 5,092 lbs/2,310 kg
Maximum Ramp Weight 5,134 lbs/2,329 kg
Standard Equipped Weight 3,436 lbs/1,562 kg
Standard Useful Load (a and b)
1,698 lbs/772 kg

a. Standard useful load is max ramp weight minus standard equipped weight.
b. Useful load is indicated for a standard equipped aircraft.

DIMENSIONS
Wing Span 43 ft/13.11 m
Length 29.6 ft/9.02 m
Height 11.3 ft/3.44 m
Cabin Length 12.3 ft/3.75 m

Instrument Panel to Rear Bulkhead
Cabin Width 4.1 ft/1.25 m
Cabin Height 3.9 ft/1.19 m

WING AREA 183 ft2/17.0 m2

FUEL AND OIL CAPACITY
Useable 170 US gal/644 liters
CRUISING SPEEDS TAS
Maximum Cruise Power 260 kts

CRUISING RANGE TAS
Range with Full Fuel 1,000+ nm/1,885+ km
Full power climb to 30,000 ft max cruise power
and descent with 45 minute reserves remaining
(170 gal usable)

ENDURANCE
Endurance with Full Fuel 4.2 Hours
Full power climb to 30,000 ft max cruise power
and descent with 45 minutes reserve remaining

RATE OF CLIMB @ MTOW 1,556 fpm

STALL SPEED
Flaps Extended 36º

69 kias/128 km/h

61 kcas/113 km/h

SERVICE CEILING
30,000+ ft/9,144+ m
30,000 ft is the maximum approved
altitude for the Meridian
TAKE-OFF DISTANCE
Ground Roll 1,650 ft/503 m
Total over 50 ft Obstacle 2,438 ft/743 m Flaps 20º, Gross Weight


LANDING DISTANCE Ground Roll 1,020 ft/311 m

Total over 50 ft Obstacle 2,110 ft/643 m

STANDARD EQUIPPED LIST
Includes all listed standard equipment, FLY-AWAY-FACTORY (F.A.F.) Vero Beach, FL. Dealer delivery and local taxes extra.

Piper Aircraft, Inc. reserves the right to make changes in specifications, materials, equipment, or prices at any time without prior notice or to discontinue models as required.

POWERPLANT AND PROPELLER
Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-42A Turboprop Engine

Propeller - Hartzell Constant Speed, Reversible and Full Feathering

• Beta Switch with Warning Light
• Hydraulic Topping Governor
• Polished Propeller Spinner
• Woodward Overspeed Governor

Bleed Air Pneumatic and Vacuum System
Compressor Wash Ring
Dust Covers - Engine Air Inlets and Exhaust Ports,with Propeller Locks
Starter Generator, 28 Volt
Engine Condition Trend Monitoring Capability (ECTM)
Free Subscription to ECTM Service for One Year
Fire Detection System
Oil Cooler with Thermostatic Control

FLIGHT INSTRUMENTS AND INDICATORS
Avidyne FlightMax Entegra Flat Panel Display System
Pilot’s and Co-Pilot’s Electronic Primary Flight Displays (PFDs)
• Displays all Primary Flight Instruments on dual 10.4” screens
10.4” Multi-Function Display
• Large Screen Moving Map
• Onboard Weather Radar
• Trip Summary
• Nearest Airports
• EMax Engine Indicating System Displaying:
Torque
Interstage Turbine Temperature
Tachometer – Propeller (Np)
Tachometer – Gas Generator (Ng)
Oil Temperature
Oil Pressure
Fuel Totalizer
Rudder Trim
Vacuum
Outside Air Temperature
Magnetic Compass
Self-Dimming Annunciator Panel
Standby Mechanical Flight Instruments
Pilot’s Pitot/Static System
Pilot’s Alternate Static Source
Co-Pilot Pitot/Static System


COCKPIT, FLIGHT AND GROUND CONTROLS
Primary Flight Controls, Dual Hytrel Control Wheels with Electric Elevator Trim, A/P Disconnect, CWS and Mic Buttons
Engine and Propeller Controls
• Single Power Lever
• Fuel Condition Lever
• Emergency Fuel Control Lever
Flight Trim - Console
• Electric Rudder Trim with Digital Display on MFD
• Electric and Manual Elevator Trim
Stall Warning Computer and Horn
Steerable Nose Wheel
Brakes
• Pilot's Toe Brakes
• Co-Pilot's Toe Brakes
• Parking Brake
Landing Gear, Retractable, Electrohydraulic with Emergency Extension Capability
Landing Gear Warning Horn with Mute Switch

Wing Flaps, Electrically Operated with Pre-select Feature
Wing Flap Position Indicator

Overhead Switch Panel Containing:

• Engine Switches
• Electrical Switches
• De-Ice Switches
• Lighting Switches

Environmental Switch Panel

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Battery – 24 Volt, 38 AMP/Hour Generator – 28 Volt, 200 AMP
Alternator – 28 Volt, 135 AMP
External Power Supply Receptacle – 28 Volt AN Type
Voltage Regulator
Generator Control Unit (GCU)
Resettable-Type Circuit Breakers
Digital Ammeter/Voltmeter
Static Discharge Wicks


FUEL SYSTEM
Integral Fuel Tanks
Fuel Shutoff Valve
Fngine Driven Fuel Pump
Electric Fuel Pumps
Fuel Filter with Bypass
Fuel Tank Drains
Fuel Sampling Bottle
Flush Fuel Caps
Reduced Operational Temperature Fuel System
Fuel Temperature Indicator

ICE PROTECTION SYSTEM AND PROVISIONS
Dual Engine Air Inlets and Inertial Separators
Pneumatic Wing and Tail De-Icing
Pilot’s Heated Glass Windshield
Propeller De-Icing, Electric
Heated Pitot Head, Pilot and Co-Pilot
Heated Lift Detector
Ice Inspection Light

LIGHTING SYSTEMS
External Lighting
• Nose Gear Landing Light
• Pulsating Wing Tip Taxi/Recognition Lights
Navigation Lights
• Wing Tip Comet Strobe Lights

Cockpit Lighting (Solid State Dimming)
• Avionics
• Instrument Panel, Switch and Circuit Breaker Panel
• Cockpit Dome Lights

Cabin Lighting
• Cabin Overhead Lights
• Courtesy Lights
• Cabin Entrance Lights
• Interior Baggage Compartment Lights

CABIN COMFORT SYSTEM
Bleed Air Heat to Cabin
Windshield Defrosters
Air-Conditioning - HFC-134a Refrigerant Cycle System
Cabin Air Vents for Heating, Ventilation and Cooling

EXTERNAL FEATURES AND ACCESSORIES
Polyurethane Exterior Finish
12” Shadowed Registration Numbers
Full Chemical Corrosion Protection
Cabin Entrance Door with Built-In Steps
Propeller Gust Lock
Turbine Inlet Plugs
Exterior Storage Compartments, Two
Stainless Steel Access Fasteners
Tie Down Rings, Three (Retractable on Wings)
Jack Pads
Locks And Keys with Piper Logo


PRESSURIZATION SYSTEM
Cabin Altitude and Differential Pressure Indicator
Cabin Rate of Climb Indicator
Cabin Door Seal (Molded)
Cabin Outflow Pressure Regulating Valve
Cabin Pressure Safety and Dump Valve
Emergency Exit Pressure Seal (Molded)
Variable Rate Cabin Pressure Controller - Sea Level Controller
5.5 psid Pressurization System
Automatic Emergency Pressurization System
Cabin Altitude Warning Light
Emergency Oxygen System
Absolute Pressure Regulator

COCKPIT AND CABIN APPOINTMENTS
All Leather Seats
Highly Durable Simulated Leather Side Panels
Wall to Wall Carpeting
Improved Comfort Pilot/Co-Pilot Seats with increased head and leg-room, inflatable lumbar support, adjustable vertically, fore and aft, reclining, safety belts with inertia reel shoulder harness and stowaway armrests

Pilot Relief Tube
Emergency Exit
Pilot's Storm Window
Scuff Pads, Pilot and Co-Pilot
Sunvisors
Four Rear Passenger Seats, in club arrangement, reclining, with inertia reel shoulder harness, safety belts and stowaway armrests

Window Shades on Passenger Windows

Soundproofing, Quietized

Double Pane Windows

Cabin Accessible Luggage Compartment

Halon Fire Extinguisher

Stowaway Executive Writing Table


PRODUCT SUPPORT/DOCUMENTS
Full Two Year Factory Limited Warranty
Initial Pilot Training Slot (1) at SimCom International Inc. - VRB
Pilot’s Operating Handbook
Aircraft and Engine Log Books
Certificate of Airworthiness
Inspection Forms

Flight Bag

STANDARD AVIONICS SYSTEM
Avidyne FlightMax Entegra Flat Panel Display System

• Pilot and Co-Pilot Electronic 10.4” Primary Flight Displays
Portraying Operational and Navigation Flight Parameters
• Multi-Function Display
• ADAHRS
Dual Avidyne Air Data and Attitude Heading Reference
System Integrated in PFDs
Pilot Selectable for Reversionary Modes
Autopilot ‘Pilot Priority’ feature
NAV/COMM/GS/GPS #1
GNS-430 with Broad Band Antenna
NAV/COMM/GS/GPS #2

GPS-430 with Broad Band Antenna

Audio Selector Panel
GMA-340 with Marker Beacon and Stereo Output for aft Four Positions
Digital Transponder
GTX-330 with Traffic Information System and Pilot Control
Wheel ldent Button
Autopilot
S-Tec Magic 1500 Automatic Flight Control System with:
• Digital Attitude Based
• Integrated Altitude Preselector and Alerter
• IAS-Indicated Airspeed Mode
• Integrated Yaw Damper
• Voice Annuciations
Weather Radar
Allied Signal RDR-2000 Vertical Profile
Ground Clearance System
Pilot/Co-Pilot Control Wheel Mic Button
Pilot’s Transponder Ident Button
Mic/Phone Jacks and Overhead Speaker
Pilot’s Microphone
Automatic Emergency Locator Beacon





Piper Aircraft, Inc. reserves the right to make changes in specifications,
materials, equipment, or prices at any time without prior notice or to discontinue
models as required.