Getting out of the bond???

[Mig29]

Any tips on getting out of the bond....??? I am owing them few grand (under 5k), and have been screwed by the company, since the bond they caluclated started from the training date, which was 6 months AFTER my hire date (when I was promised to be PPC'd initially right away). So they won't count those previous 6 months as a way of reducing my bond ...which would save me additional few grand..

and I have plenty more reasons that I feel I got screwd, which I won't get all worked about here, but wouldn't mind hearing your 2 cents on this....

thanks;)

[Youngback]

Can't say I agree with you here. If you didn't do your training for 6 months after the hire date, that should have been the first warning that something wasn't right. Getting trained on a company aircraft isn't free. It costs the company a considerable amount. Why should you expect that your first 6 months should be part of the bond. They didn't spend any money on you. You were free to leave during that period. After you were trained, they had an investment in you and they would expect some sort of guarantee in return, namely, you staying for 1 year.

Unless those other things you say they screwed you on were fairly serious, say safety violations or failing to pay your agreed salary, I'd say you are on the hook.

Without knowing more about your situation, thats my opinion.

[pika]

http://www1.servicecanada.gc.ca/en/labo ... ef11.shtml

[V1]

Thanks for that link!

I am ok with a one year bond, but anything beyond that is asking for to much. As noted in that link from above, bonds are not in favor of pilots, its for employers to get there money's worth out of you. As pilots we do not get to get to discuss what we want in return to remain a happy employee and be treated well.
If there is a way to work it out with your employer then i would try to do that. I would ask for a break down in costs owed, and i would fight the angle that you were waiting for 6 months to be trained and didn't leave for another job.

I just wonder how many people do get slapped with lawyers papers out there?

[sanjet]

Another good reason to do your research on the company before you get hired on with them, specially with bonds. Past employee references will never lie about your future experience with them.

[tsgas]

If ALL pilots refused to accept a bond companies would be stuck with grounded aircraft until they decided to drop the bonds altogether.

[Wacko]

If ALL pilots refused to accept a bond companies would be stuck with grounded aircraft until they decided to drop the bonds altogether.

Yeah, hold your breath on that one

[Reality]

If ALL pilots refused to accept a bond companies would be stuck with grounded aircraft until they decided to drop the bonds altogether.

\\

That's a great idea, then the company would go under and pilots would lose the jobs. You should probably think before you type.... There would be no such thing as training bonds if pilots would stick around after they got their PPC's, like it was said in a previous post, company's spend a pile of money to train pilots, fulfill your obligation's. The aviation industry will eventually turn again and pilot's will have a tough time finding jobs again it alway's does, and idiotic post's like tsgas's won't be written.

[xsbank]

Pika, thanks for that link - it should be made a sticky! Every commercial pilot should read it and be aware of it. This is a perfect example of the positive reasons for a union or an 'association.' Who else is looking after us? If we were truckers or trainmen we would have government assistance and legislation, but our government does not think that we exist and allowing these conditions to continue in the 21st century proves that they don't give a sh*t.

[johnholmes]

I would say if you really have good reason not to pay the bond then walk out on it and let the company take you to court. If they have screwed you like you say they did then any reasonable judge should understand this and would probably agree with you. Otherwise stake your case to your company and see if you can negotiate something with them. my 2 cents

[The Hammer]

Reality
If there is money to be made then companies will replace those that fail.
Maybe companies shouldn't use training bonds as leverage to fly broken overweight airplanes. I worked for a place once where I had eat 5G because I figured my life was worth more than that. I passsed my ride and the next day they felt obligated to hand me a broken overweight airplane.


As low as life forms as pilots might be, their bosses/ owners will always be one level lower.

[1000 HP]

Any tips on getting out of the bond....??? I am owing them few grand (under 5k), and have been screwed by the company, since the bond they caluclated started from the training date, which was 6 months AFTER my hire date (when I was promised to be PPC'd initially right away). So they won't count those previous 6 months as a way of reducing my bond ...which would save me additional few grand..

and I have plenty more reasons that I feel I got screwd, which I won't get all worked about here, but wouldn't mind hearing your 2 cents on this....

thanks;)

Probably better just to tough it out, leave on good terms. Aviation is a small world, full of inbred half-cousins. One guys bad-mouths you, and you could be rampie at Air India for the rest of your life. Just suck it up, smile when you give them your nice polite resignation letter, and never look back...

At least if you do a good job, meet the bond, and leave well, you can sue them for slander if need be.

[sky's the limit]

Probably better just to tough it out, leave on good terms. Aviation is a small world, full of inbred half-cousins. One guys bad-mouths you, and you could be rampie at Air India for the rest of your life. Just suck it up, smile when you give them your nice polite resignation letter, and never look back...

At least if you do a good job, meet the bond, and leave well, you can sue them for slander if need be.

1000Hp,

Couldn't disagree with you more on this one, sorry.

"Sticking it out" because it's "a small world" is about the worst thing you can do. If you genuinely have an issue with your treatment/pay/aircraft etc, WALK. Who cares what they say behind your back, but if you abandon your principals it becomes a VERY slippery slope.

The best decisions I've ever made have been ones based on principals, not money, not equipment, not location, and CERTAINLY not fear of what someone has to say about me. This industry needs more people standing up for what they believe in(as long as they believe in the right things of course... ), not retreating in fear.

Things are VERY good in the industry for the drivers and fixers right now, that will certainly change when the next crunch comes, and it's not too far around the corner. If you can't stand up for yourself now, it'll be near on impossible when the job market closes up and the purse strings tighten.

My 2 cents.

stl

[Meatservo]

STL, you may be right if it's actually principles he's standing up for. There are lots of people who think they are getting "screwed". If, for instance (just an example) a co-pilot gets passed over for an upgrade to captain because he isn't ready to BE a captain, of course he's going to come on here and say he's being screwed because his boss is a dick. Who knows why this dude thinks he's getting "screwed"? Maybe he is. If so, you are correct. If not, then 1000hp's comment seems sensible to me.

Reality, TSgas's comment was naive and idealistic, considering the character of most "professional pilots", but your reply was hostile and uncalled-for.

Also, it is incorrect to use an apostrophe before the "s" when pluralising a noun, for example, you should write "companies" rather than "company's" or "obligations" rather than "obligation's". This is a common error among those who are new to the English language. I must admit, though, I have never seen "alway's" before. That too is incorrect. I would be careful who I call idiotic.

As for you, MiG29, 1000hp's suggestion is the most sensible way to go, in my opinion. Unless your present employment situation is absolutely unbearable, staying at the company until the terms of your agreement are met will allow you to occupy the moral high ground. Unless you actually PAID a bond, which is a practice that needs to be banned outright, but I gather you simply signed an agreement not to quit before a certain date, right? If you actually had to fork out before the checkout, that's a different kettle of fish altogether. If you're just trying to get out of your agreement to work for a certain period of time because you have a better job lined up, then unless you are being done irrepairable harm by your company and their efforts to screw you, I would say you made a deal and are looking for a way to wiggle out of it.

Is the Art LaFlamme referred to at the end of that pilot's association page the same guy who used to sign all our licenses?

[. .]

I would bail while the bailing is good. If the music stops you don't want to be stuck in some crappy company for the next 5 years. Even if you have to buy out your bond it's far better of being some place you can enjoy. You just can't put a price on your own sanity.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Is the Art LaFlamme referred to at the end of that pilot's association page the same guy who used to sign all our licenses?

Yes he is.

When Art was DGCA for TCCA he assured me that my company would not be bankrupted by contacting him to fix a problem in the Pacific Region management.....

........he assured me that TCCA would act in a legal and fair manner......

.....then he left and Preuss took over....my company was bankrupted by TCCA and I was blacklisted by TCCA and forced to go out of Canada to earn a living.

I never did hear from Art again after he left TCCA and took the job he has now.

Im sort of glad I don't belong to that union .........might have to rely on Art again someday and for some reason I don't feel like it would be in my best interest.

I guess you could say I'm a bit cynical about Art and Merlin....

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cyn·i·cal Audio Help /ˈsɪnɪkəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sin-i-kuhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. like or characteristic of a cynic; distrusting or disparaging the motives of others.
2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, esp. by actions that exploit the scruples of others.
3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.

[Lurch]

STL, you may be right if it's actually principles he's standing up for. There are lots of people who think they are getting "screwed". If, for instance (just an example) a co-pilot gets passed over for an upgrade to captain because he isn't ready to BE a captain, of course he's going to come on here and say he's being screwed because his boss is a dick. Who knows why this dude thinks he's getting "screwed"? Maybe he is. If so, you are correct. If not, then 1000hp's comment seems sensible to me.

Reality, TSgas's comment was naive and idealistic, considering the character of most "professional pilots", but your reply was hostile and uncalled-for.

Also, it is incorrect to use an apostrophe before the "s" when pluralising a noun, for example, you should write "companies" rather than "company's" or "obligations" rather than "obligation's". This is a common error among those who are new to the English language. I must admit, though, I have never seen "alway's" before. That too is incorrect. I would be careful who I call idiotic.

As for you, MiG29, 1000hp's suggestion is the most sensible way to go, in my opinion. Unless your present employment situation is absolutely unbearable, staying at the company until the terms of your agreement are met will allow you to occupy the moral high ground. Unless you actually PAID a bond, which is a practice that needs to be banned outright, but I gather you simply signed an agreement not to quit before a certain date, right? If you actually had to fork out before the checkout, that's a different kettle of fish altogether. If you're just trying to get out of your agreement to work for a certain period of time because you have a better job lined up, then unless you are being done irrepairable harm by your company and their efforts to screw you, I would say you made a deal and are looking for a way to wiggle out of it.

Is the Art LaFlamme referred to at the end of that pilot's association page the same guy who used to sign all our licenses?

Meatservo

If you are going to give other's grammar lessons you really should check your own work.

Pluralising is spelled with a "Z” Pluralizing
Irrepairable is spelled Irreparable
"If you actually had to fork out before the checkout, that's a different kettle of fish altogether. " is a sentence fragment.

Don't worry everybody is human

Lurch

[Meatservo]

Dear Lurch,


Fragments are incomplete sentences. Usually, fragments are pieces of sentences that have become disconnected from the main clause. One of the easiest ways to correct them is to remove the period between the fragment and the main clause. Other kinds of punctuation may be needed for the newly combined sentence.

I copied this from Purdue University's online writing lab. You should check it out. That is not a sentence fragment, since I used a comma.

At dictionary.com, we learn that "pluralise" is the acceptable British form of "pluralize".

Unfortunately for me, you got me on "irreparable". I was fooled because the opposite is "repairable". Congratulations.

You are far from being the better speller, however. May I draw your attention to your inappropriate use of the apostrophe in the word "other's". Since you meant "others" in the plural sense, you have made yet another error.

Also, upon closer inspection of your last post, it seems as though you attempted to write "pluralize" in bold, but missed and only got your last quotation mark. Perhaps you should take a look at your typing, as well.

I have learned from my spelling mistakes. Will you?

All the best,

Meatservo

P.S., I don't care. He was still rude. Politeness is even more important than spelling.

[Reality]

Meatservo,
You sir are an idiot, you can take your spelling and grammer lessons and shove em up your ass, Now I am being rude. You bunch of jack asses are ruining the industry, whining about bonds yet your the first ones to leave once training is over. Bunch of fuckin hipocrites if you ask me.
The Hammer, it's funny that you stuck around to get your PPC before you left eh? It was safe enough for you until you got your licence signed off? Your an even bigger idiot that grammer police meatservo. Your the reason why I had to get a training bond, people like you disgust me!
Enough grammer mistakes and spelling mistakes for you?

[Meatservo]

Gentlemen, we have a winner! Whoops. Spelling alert. I meant "whiner".

Quote:
"Your the reason why I had to get a training bond, people like you disgust me!"

Way to not whine about YOUR training bond, buddy! Never had one, myself.

Better luck next time, jackass.

[Pilot101]

I think we all need to

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Reality, lighten up or you may have some serious anger management problems to deal with....

......meatservo is really quite entertaining and brings some refreshing changes to this forum....not to mention there are some here who could pay more attention to how they write and spell......

You sir are an idiot, you can take your spelling and grammer lessons and shove em up your ass,

Maybe you could print them and send them to him?

[Reality]

Meatservo,
I have never whined a day in my life, I am one of a few people on here that loves my job as a pilot, I stand up for this occupation time and time again. I work hard for my employer and I love what I do. Let's get one thing straight here pal, you don't know me, and if you did you would keep your mouth shut.

People like yourself that hound posters for their spelling and grammer have far to much time on their hands.

Same goes for you .

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have never whined a day in my life, I am one of a few people on here that loves my job as a pilot,

And you sound like you would be a real joy to fly with.

People like yourself that hound posters for their spelling and grammer have far to much time on their hands.

Yup, I have lots of time on my hands and I earned it by flying and fixing airplanes.

[SQ]

You sir are an idiot, you can take your spelling and grammer lessons and shove em up your ass

mouaaaha didn't know that one