Sanders Geophysics (SGL)

[DFione1]

Hey folks, just wondering if anyone knows if Sanders hires people without valid IFR tickets? I know survey work is done in VFR. Any info would be appreciated.

[Pratt X 3]

I know survey work is done in VFR.

My best guess; the ferry flights between survey areas could require a valid IFR. Maybe they would renew your rating once you got hired. Doesn't hurt to apply.

[DHC3Rwannafly]

It may be vfr, but I think they don't very often, look out of the cockpit. my guess...

[chipmunk]

It may be vfr, but I think they don't very often, look out of the cockpit. my guess...

If you don't look out of the cockpit while survey flying, it won't be long before things go bad. It's amazing what's down between 300-500 feet... helicopters, towers, birds...

The correct way to fly survey is to spend at least 70% of the time looking OUTSIDE.

However, as mentioned, ferry flights would be done IFR, plus it might be an insurance issue as well.

Re: the valid IFR - I don't work for Sander but I can assume since their job ad says they REQUIRE a valid GROUP 1 IFR, that you should probably have it. Look at it this way - I'm sure you won't be the only one applying for the job and if they get someone with similar qualifications but with a VALID MIFR, why would they pick you over them when they'd have to shell out $$$$ PLUS time on a renewal for you?

[Dave T]

Does anyone know what kind of time they are looking for? Looks like they may operate with two pilots sometimes what is the requirement for direct entry capt? Schedule ect?

Just curious sounds like cool experience for someone that is young and wants to see some of the world.

[aileron]

Most likely survey above FL180, also requiring an IFR ticket...

[seahawk]

What kind of outfit are they to work for? Is it low level surveying or is it above 18000. Just curious

[desertduster]

They are a good company to work for. Good maintenance, people, and great opportunity to see the world. I believe they work two months on and one off. All survey work is low level. (Caravan is not a machine for survey above FL180) IFR is required for the ferry flights, and for times when a sand storm might just catch you by surprise.

[Ramjet555]

I was speaking with their chief pilot a while back and I knew several guys who worked for them and their competition, also a great company. Sander's is a great company, pay reasonably well, lots of adventure overseas more suitable to a single guy. If you are married you would have to be prepared to spend several months away at a time. That would be a career move. International operations generally require an IFR rating and for the machines they fly you really should have one. In the geophysical survey business there is a historical high accident rate. As a general comment, survey companies often end up with the wrong sort of pilots who end up killing themselves. That experienced survey pilot you meet may just be yet another accident going to happen or an example of good CRM. It's challenging flying, you need to be able to fly lots of hours of very accurate flying, that can be akin to the challenge of doing many hours of repeated ILS approaches. Some ability in other languages might be valuable. Survey flying often involves many hours of low level flying in addition to the high level work. Call their chief pilot and speak to him yourself.

[Mr. North]

That experienced survey pilot you meet may just be yet another accident going to happen or an example of good CRM.

What are you trying to say? Historically high accident rate compared to what? Bush flying? Northern IFR ops.? I would argue both of these are more dangerous then survey flying. No doubt there are risks involved with low flying but there are other risks we do without common to other areas of the industry.. such as flying overweight, in bad weather, or on poorly maintained machines.

Otherwise good post.

[chipmunk]

In the geophysical survey business there is a historical high accident rate. As a general comment, survey companies often end up with the wrong sort of pilots who end up killing themselves. That experienced survey pilot you meet may just be yet another accident going to happen or an example of good CRM.

Historically, yes. Because of this, the "better" survey companies these days are members of IAGSA (Int'l Airborne Geophysical Survey Association) that promotes a culture of safety, and many clients require the company to have incredibly high safety standards, thorough pilot training both on aircraft type and on survey, often at Flight Safety, and a bunch of other things... the amounts of safety-related paperwork, risk assessments, etc is incredible.

Your comments may reflect the "old time" survey pilot, but the generalization applies less and less today. I don't know any wrong sorts of pilots who are accidents waiting to happen where I work; we're not the bunch of cowboys & gals that you seem to think.

[Cat Driver]

Survey flying is very low risk wise compared to many other jobs.

Anyone who thinks that it is dangerous needs to expand their horizons.

[chipmunk]

Survey flying is very low risk wise compared to many other jobs.

Anyone who thinks that it is dangerous needs to expand their horizons.

I think the most dangerous part of my job is the potential of getting tangled up in the mosquito net when I get out of bed in the morning...

(How are ya doing these days, Cat?)

[Cat Driver]

(How are ya doing these days, Cat?)

Just fine chipmunk, haven't flown an airplane since last fall when we bought the Husky, but I guess I will get back at it again soon.

Still turning down overseas stuff though and not missing it for a second.

I was talking to Clunk last week and he is coming out to see if he can think at five knots so he is as good as me.

[Rudder Bug]

I was talking to Clunk last week and he is coming out to see if he can think at five knots so he is as good as me.

Wow you guys better hold your hats!!!!

Happy sailing!

[Cat Driver]

[Lost Lake]

That experienced survey pilot you meet may just be yet another accident going to happen or an example of good CRM.

What are you trying to say? Historically high accident rate compared to what? Bush flying? Northern IFR ops.? I would argue both of these are more dangerous then survey flying. No doubt there are risks involved with low flying but there are other risks we do without common to other areas of the industry.. such as flying overweight, in bad weather, or on poorly maintained machines.

Otherwise good post.

Wow, no one picked up on this. Are you saying you fly overweight, in bad weather on poorly maintained aircraft? If your working for a company that endorses that thinking today get the f*%k out now because one way or another you won't be flying there long!

[Mr. North]

Chill out Lost Lake, I think you completely missed the tone of this thread.

[arobinson]

I didn't see an answer to the question of the how many hours a pilot needs to be hired at Sanders. Thoughts?

thanks

[CanadianEh]

I didn't see an answer to the question of the how many hours a pilot needs to be hired at Sanders. Thoughts?

thanks

1000 TT unless you know someone

[pul106]

Hi everyone

Looking to get some updated info about SGL

1. How's the company culture and management ?
2. Do they have a training bond ?
3. What is the schedule like ? (especially for new fo)
4. Are there any flight benefits ?
5. Do I have to be based in YOW area to fly for SGL ?
6. Approx. flying hours per month ?
7. Pay and per diems for fo ?

Thanks

[0000001]

Most of the posts here are from people who've never worked for the company so take their opinions with a grain of salt. I spent 6 years with SGL and it was probably the best company I've ever worked for.

If you're looking for an entry level gig to bank tons of hours, look elsewhere. You'll fly 400-600 hours in a typical year. There is an oft-repeated phrase "this is not an aviation company" you'll hear from time to time. The flying operation is there to support the survey mission, not the other way around which can be a shift in thinking for many pilots.

The basic requirements are typically 1000 hours TT with a Group 1 instrument rating (yes Caravans are single engine they also have twins you may fly at some point). The requirements are a bit flexible depending on your skills and the requirements of the current survey work (in some cases, they can't deploy you if the client requires certain minimums). The company was founded and has grown through its own R&D developed entirely in-house. They rely heavily on skilled people to run their business and they want candidates who are more than just pilots. There is strong emphasis on personality (ie. can you get along with your crew for 2 months at a time?) and "soft" skills that make you a valuable part of the team.

The rotations are 2 month on, 1 month off. Work is almost entirely overseas and if domestic work comes up, it will almost certainly not be where you live. The lifestyle is best suited to single people but there are a few who are married or have a SO. There are ways of making it work. In 6 years I only worked one domestic tour but did plenty of work in South America, East Africa and the Far East. You can live almost anywhere but will sometimes be required to work in the YOW office before a deployment. This could involve renewing a PPC/PCC, getting involved with planning an upcoming survey or performing test flights. Travel and lodging expenses are covered for all deployments and you are paid a per diem according to the work location.

Survey flying is low level (< 500' AGL) and done VFR. Ferry flights sometimes come up which are done IFR. Flight ops are 2-crew with SOPs just like larger aircraft. There is a PICUS program. Great experience if you have any aspiration to fly with an airline. The ferry flights were my favourite part of the job. The longest I ever did was about 10,000nm from East Africa to Ottawa and did many others. You plan all these yourself and they are a great, great experience.

Pay is above average for a Caravan FO to start. You can save a lot of money by not having a full-time place to live in Canada while you're away and by banking your (tax-free) per diems. Most places in the world are way cheaper to live so your take-home can be quite decent.

SGL was the most safety-oriented company I've ever worked for. Safety is legitimately their first priority and if there is a concern, the flying stops until it's resolved or a mitigation plan is put into place. There is very little pressure to fly if the crew doesn't think the weather or a situation is suitable which I always appreciated. Having said that, safety doesn't happen on its own. There is a fair amount of paperwork to complete during a survey start-up like risk assessments, emergency response plans, hospital audits, etc. so you'll be expected to complete those as part of the job.

tldr: great place to work, don't plan to bank tons of hours, not your typical "flying job"


To answer the guy above:

2. Do they have a training bond ?
>> Only for upgrades to Captain on the C208 or moving to DHC6/C404 that require course (12 months, ~$10k). Honestly this was more like job security because I enjoyed working there.

4. Are there any flight benefits ?
>> Company pays for travel to/from work location. Can arrange ticket to another place after your tour if it's the same cost. No interline flight benefits because company is not an airline.

[tlr45]

I had the opportunity of working for SGL as one of my first jobs. It was a amazing opportunity that a person looking to get in to the industry as a new pilot would be lucky to get. I had a Commercial Multi IFR when I was hired.

I had some amazing experiences in North America, Europe and Greenland.

[pul106]

SGL sounds like a great company to work for, thanks for sharing your experiences.

I hope to hear from them soon

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Most of the posts here are from people who've never worked for the company so take their opinions with a grain of salt. I spent 6 years with SGL and it was probably the best company I've ever worked for.

If you're looking for an entry level gig to bank tons of hours, look elsewhere. You'll fly 400-600 hours in a typical year. There is an oft-repeated phrase "this is not an aviation company" you'll hear from time to time. The flying operation is there to support the survey mission, not the other way around which can be a shift in thinking for many pilots.

The basic requirements are typically 1000 hours TT with a Group 1 instrument rating (yes Caravans are single engine they also have twins you may fly at some point). The requirements are a bit flexible depending on your skills and the requirements of the current survey work (in some cases, they can't deploy you if the client requires certain minimums). The company was founded and has grown through its own R&D developed entirely in-house. They rely heavily on skilled people to run their business and they want candidates who are more than just pilots. There is strong emphasis on personality (ie. can you get along with your crew for 2 months at a time?) and "soft" skills that make you a valuable part of the team.

The rotations are 2 month on, 1 month off. Work is almost entirely overseas and if domestic work comes up, it will almost certainly not be where you live. The lifestyle is best suited to single people but there are a few who are married or have a SO. There are ways of making it work. In 6 years I only worked one domestic tour but did plenty of work in South America, East Africa and the Far East. You can live almost anywhere but will sometimes be required to work in the YOW office before a deployment. This could involve renewing a PPC/PCC, getting involved with planning an upcoming survey or performing test flights. Travel and lodging expenses are covered for all deployments and you are paid a per diem according to the work location.

Survey flying is low level (< 500' AGL) and done VFR. Ferry flights sometimes come up which are done IFR. Flight ops are 2-crew with SOPs just like larger aircraft. There is a PICUS program. Great experience if you have any aspiration to fly with an airline. The ferry flights were my favourite part of the job. The longest I ever did was about 10,000nm from East Africa to Ottawa and did many others. You plan all these yourself and they are a great, great experience.

Pay is above average for a Caravan FO to start. You can save a lot of money by not having a full-time place to live in Canada while you're away and by banking your (tax-free) per diems. Most places in the world are way cheaper to live so your take-home can be quite decent.

SGL was the most safety-oriented company I've ever worked for. Safety is legitimately their first priority and if there is a concern, the flying stops until it's resolved or a mitigation plan is put into place. There is very little pressure to fly if the crew doesn't think the weather or a situation is suitable which I always appreciated. Having said that, safety doesn't happen on its own. There is a fair amount of paperwork to complete during a survey start-up like risk assessments, emergency response plans, hospital audits, etc. so you'll be expected to complete those as part of the job.

tldr: great place to work, don't plan to bank tons of hours, not your typical "flying job"


To answer the guy above:

2. Do they have a training bond ?
>> Only for upgrades to Captain on the C208 or moving to DHC6/C404 that require course (12 months, ~$10k). Honestly this was more like job security because I enjoyed working there.

4. Are there any flight benefits ?
>> Company pays for travel to/from work location. Can arrange ticket to another place after your tour if it's the same cost. No interline flight benefits because company is not an airline.

Solid post, it is a survey company first definitely.