Maintenance (PRM)

[Vlakvark]

Can someone tell me, how to study for the Person Responsible for Maintenance (PRM). I have a study guide from TC, but I have no idea where to start with the CAR’s. Under which CAR’s do I look and prepare.

[Ballsssssss]

If you don't know or don't know how to look them up maybe PRM is not the job for you.

[Vlakvark]

Thanks man. I’ll tell the company that!

[carholme]

Vlakvark;

Here is some information from another thread concerning PRM.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 27&t=39400

Just make sure you know what you are getting into as it is easy to get through the interview with TC but the real responsibilities of the job are not quite that simple and you will be the one hung out to dry if you have no understanding of the maintenance requirements.


Good luck.

carholme

[marktheone]

I found the written to be a bitch. It is open book but you had better know where to look. Know 625 well and the associated standard for all of them.

Good Luck

[5x5]

Vlakvark - perhaps Ballssss was a bit curt in his comment, but do take some heed. Obviously whatever company you work for has asked you to take on this responsibility and hopefully they are going to pay you for it as well. The fact you are asking here for what is pretty basic information could lead someone to think that you don't have the background and this is a new job to you. And it is also fair to assume that there is no one in the company giving you guidance, or once again, you would already know this stuff. And trying to learn while you're doing the PRM job without someone to help you along is a pretty daunting task - although it is somewhat dependent on the number of aircraft and type of OC, even a few planes can get to be a handful.

Those are red flags, as the job of PRM as Carholme stated, does come with significant responsibility and don't underestimate that. Not only can the company suffer is you miss something or the blessed paperwork gets out of whack - but who do you think is holding the bag should an accident occur and there are any discrepancies in the maintenance records?

I'm not suggesting that we should run and hide at the potential threat of liabilities - actually I hate that mind set that is starting to pervade our business. But this is one position where the risk has to be recognized and accepted before you take the job. Which goes back to Ballssss' comment.

Obviously it can be done as every company out there has someone doing it - just consider it carefully before you agree to take it on.

[Ballsssssss]

"curt", I like that, most people just call me an A$$ Hole. No one has ever faulted me for being dishonest, though. Being PRM means that you accept ALL responsibility that goes along with the aircraft maintenance. Like 5x5 said, you are going to be the one in front of the bus if anything happens. If you are PRM for a company that has a 3rd party maintenance contractor be aware that you are still responsible for all the maintenance performed. You are responsible for tracking all TBO's, AD's and SB's and making sure they are completed at the right times.

[Navajo Flyer]

I did the exam last year. Even though it is open book - good luck. They gave me some inspectors lap top that ran on the battery - battery packed it in part way through. Found a power cord - could't find an outlet in the exam room, crawling around on hand and knees to find an outlet - meanwhile the exam room was full. The CARs on the lap top was not even closely organised as it is on line or on the CD. Only squeaked by studying a book called "CARs for the AME". Couldn't find a thing on the computer. Yet according to TC it isn't a knowledge test, only a test to see how well you can find info in the CARs.

[sprayrail]

In regard to your request for information on doing the exam and interview for a PRM position, starting out reviewing Cars and the Standards that pertain to the position and a good general knowledge of the Cars in particular (this means a lot of study on the driest information known to man) should get you through. I found the written exam was not a big deal, however the interview was a whole other matter. Whether you're working under an OC or an AMO you had better know the policy manual by heart, remember that the interview is totally subjective and if the inspector doesn't think you know your stuff you'll be in for a workout.
Good Luck

[Hedley]

Like many here, I think the position of PRM is taken
on far too lightly by too many unqualified people who
really don't comprehend the responsibility they are
assuming.

If you do a thread search here, you can probably read
about the guy who was PRM, Transport wasn't happy
about the job he did, and how surprised he was when
Transport came after him so vigorously.

[Garrett Power]

PRM is a very important job and very time consuming, however a good tracking program is key and worth it's weight in gold.
http://www.Tdata.com (Very simple to use)

[Cat Driver]

PRM is a very important job and very time consuming,

How important a job is it?

Is it more important than say the engineers who do the work?

How much more money does this position pay than a line pilot or an AME?

This position really mystifies me as I could not pass the approval process with TC, then again I'm rather limited in my understanding of how to maintain airplanes.

[iflyforpie]

How important a job is it?

Is it more important than say the engineers who do the work?

How much more money does this position pay than a line pilot or an AME?

It is a very important job. A PRM typically works for an operation that doesn't have an AMO (Ops with AMOs have them, but they are also usually the DOM or an experienced AME).

The PRM takes responsibility for scheduling the maintenance for the aircraft. So if the PRM doesn't know his stuff or is unorganized or forgets, checks get overrun and maintenance isn't performed. You want to fly in a plane that hasn't been maintained?

A third party AMO that is dealing with several companies or individual's aircraft could not keep track of the maintenance requirements and isn't legally bound to do so. They only sign out the work they have done to the plane, they are not responsible for technical dispatch. Yesterday I signed off a private annual and the prop was overdue for overhaul. I advised the owner, covered my ass in the release, and sent him on his merry way after unsuccessfully attempting to convince him to ground the plane and send out the prop.

I've never seen a payscale for a PRM. Everywhere I've worked it has been the owner/ops manager (except for the big companies, they wear smocks so they must be well paid). I actually do all of the work of a PRM where I work now, but I have none of the legal responsibility.

A PRM job isn't one to be taken lightly. With the right knowledge (mostly the CARS and of course the Maintenance Control Manual), the right tools (maintenance tracking programs or spreadsheets and status boards), and a good working relationship with Transport Canada it isn't too bad. But if you don't ensure the planes are maintained properly, TC can ground aircraft, pull the OC, and levy fines.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

iflyforpie, that was a good description of the PRM position.

My questions were meant to get people thinking about accepting this position without really knowing what they are getting into.

By the way my own understanding of these issues are not the reason I was denied the position by TC as I have owned several businesses both flying and maintaining.

In fact I have probably forgotten more about aircraft maintenance than the TC people who refused to allow me to be PRM for my own company know collectively......funny thing is I held that position in two of my companies in Canada previous to being denied.

Now can you give me your take on how one goes about this:

and a good working relationship with Transport Canada it isn't too bad.

Is there a special lube you need to keep that relationship running smooth?

[Vlakvark]

Just quickly want to say, thanks to all of you for the inputs. It was all helpful.

[iflyforpie]

Now can you give me your take on how one goes about this:

and a good working relationship with Transport Canada it isn't too bad.

Is there a special lube you need to keep that relationship running smooth?

LOL, Aeroshell 5 works pretty good.

[Reality]

Vlakvark, goodluck with your job.
It is really a shame that you can't ask advice or any questions without someone belittling you or pissing on your questions here. Avcanada was once a good place to ask questions and learn something however there has been a surplus of bitter people on here that have nothing better to do than hijack threads with their B.S..

[Cat Driver]

Avcanada was once a good place to ask questions and learn something however there has been a surplus of bitter people on here that have nothing better to do than hijack threads with their B.S..

I went back and read the whole thread, what exactly did you consider B.S.?

Do you think that only the good things should be pointed out?

[The Other Kind]

I suggest you move to B.C. Apparently the PRM job out there can be reduced to simply having a coffee with your AME every morning

My advice, seriously consider whether you want to take on this responsibility. It depends what your motivation is....do you really want to do this job, or were you just afraid to say 'no' when the boss asked you? If you want to build time, move on to bigger equipment and advance your flying career, I think you need to take a sober second look at accepting this position. However, if you really have a passion to learn the management side of aviation, this might be a good move.

Just remember, if you really just want to fly and are only doing this to avoid pissing off the boss, two things can happen...

1 - You will be stuck in an office under mountains of paperwork while your friends/coworkers are out flying trips.

OR

2- You will sacrifice the paperwork to go flying as much a possible and end up doing a shitty job with respect to the PRM duties.


It's ridiculous that TC allows companies to appoint pilots 'whilly nilly' to this position....in a lot of cases, all they are doing is filling a position with a warm body....I know the exam and interview process is a bitch, but still...It's just too much work for a pilot that really just wants to fly.

[Gixxer]

I think one of the things that may be misunderstood here is that there is, in fact, essentially two different types of PRM. One is the operational PRM, which is what I believe is being discussed here, and the other is the PRM for and AMO which was once upon a time called the Director of Maintenance. The operational PRM is responsible for the most part maintenance planning. It is your responsibility to ensure that AD's are delt with, scheduled maintenance is completed with in allowed time frames, TBO's are adhered to (this is a double edged sword because if you run over TBO transport is pissed and if you overhaul early the boss does). The duties of the PRM should be outlined in you MCM which you should know like the back of your hand... questions will be asked in the interview. As for CAR's know 571, 573, 591, 593, 605, 403, 703,705 (depending on what kind of operator your company is). Although I am not a operational PRM I am a maintenance PRM and I know my counterpart spends very little time flying anymore. If, in fact, you are after the maintenance PRM position then my advice is to go in with your eyes very wide open. Not to belittle the operational PRM but the resonsibilities are greater. You are on the hook for everything under the sun especially if you are a third party provider. If an apprentice messes up and no one catches it then the buck will stop with you. If there is any doubt ask any PRM who's been through a Transport audit and they should be able to give you a good idea. Haveing said all of that if you have done everything according to your MCM/MPM and CARs then the job can be a rewarding one and if your goal is to one day work for Transport... they do tend to smile on those who have experience dealing with them. Best of luck and enjoy!

[flyinggreasemonkey]

Actually you're more or less wrong, Ballssss

The certificate holder is ALWAYS ultimately responsible for what goes on at any operation.

[Cat Driver]

Actually you're more or less wrong, Ballssss

The certificate holder is ALWAYS ultimately responsible for what goes on at any operation.

Lets examine this a little closer shall we?

The pilot in the Navajo crash in Winnipeg was charged and convicted under the criminal code for his actions as PIC.

The certificate holder was not.

Are you suggesting that if TC finds a PRM has not performed his/her duties as outlined in the CAR's that TC will go after the certificate holder?

[sprayrail]

Gixxer is correct in part when he mentions a PRM being a director of maintenance in most cases, however you may note that in the case of an AMO the QA manager must also qualify and soon the Production Manager will also have to qualify. But of course this is for an AMO and doesn't address the position of PRM if you're carring out more of a maintenance manager/planner position.

[Ballsssssss]

Actually you're more or less wrong, Ballssss

The certificate holder is ALWAYS ultimately responsible for what goes on at any operation.

"Person Responsible for Maintenance" .... do we need to get out a dictionary? PRM has to accept all responsibility for maintenance.

[Cat Driver]

flyinggreasemonkey on feb 01 you posted this:

What questions can I expect when I go into the PRM interview on the 13th?
I know I have to know the QA evaluation, defect and elementary maintenance system, but what other topics can i expect? I already have the study guide available on the TC website

You obviously did not go to the interview if you still can't understand the meaning of "Person Responsible "