Central Mountain Air

[flydream]

You're wrong!
I know some dash 8 FOs that applied for an A licence and TC rejected their application.As their dash 8 time only counted for half they were a couple of hours short.And don't tell me a dash 8 is not 2 crew or less than 12,500 lbs.
For your ATPL,it's 1500 PIC.
If you only have FO time it's 3000 tt (doesn't matter if you're FO on a 747!).

[flying4dollars]

You're wrong!
I know some dash 8 FOs that applied for an A licence and TC rejected their application.As their dash 8 time only counted for half they were a couple of hours short.And don't tell me a dash 8 is not 2 crew or less than 12,500 lbs.
For your ATPL,it's 1500 PIC.
If you only have FO time it's 3000 tt (doesn't matter if you're FO on a 747!).

If I'm wrong, how is it that every pilot that has come through these doors (most starting their careers here), get their A's?

[North Shore]

I think that the answer lies somewhere in here:

421.11 Airline Transport Licence Training (Pilot-in-command Under Supervision)
(amended 1998/12/01; previous version)

(1) All air operators using large aeroplanes may institute programs of supervision to allow co-pilots to credit flight time as pilot-in-command time.

(2) Air operators using small aeroplanes and Air operators using helicopters may institute a program of supervision referred to in subsection (1) provided that they have received authorization to do so from the Minister based on the operator’s ability to institute such a program in a safe and effective manner.

(3) The training program shall be conducted in accordance with the following:

(a) the operator shall ensure that the supervisory pilots are briefed on these procedures by the Minister; and

(b) the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time may be acquired in the co-pilot's seat provided the pilot-in-command functions described in clauses (i) and (ii) can be performed from the seat. Otherwise, the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time shall include a minimum of ten hours in the pilot-in-command seat. The pilot-in-command under supervision flight time shall include:
(amended 1998/12/01; previous version)

(i) with the exception of taxiing, at least all the flight functions of a pilot-in-command including flight planning, takeoff, landing, en route flying and approach; and

(ii) a minimum of one takeoff and one landing for each ten hours of flight time.

(4) The conditions for crediting an applicant's flight time are as follows:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane shall be given credit for up to 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision, provided the applicant:

(i) holds a Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane with a multi-engine rating and the aeroplane type rating in which the flight time is acquired;

(ii) has a Group I instrument rating; and

(iii) has accumulated a minimum of 150 hours pilot-in-command flight time in aeroplanes.

(b) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Helicopter shall be given credit for up to 150 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision, provided the applicant:

(i) holds a Commercial Pilot Licence - Helicopter with the helicopter type rating in which the flight time is acquired; and

(ii) has accumulated a minimum of 100 hours pilot-in- command flight time in helicopters.

(5) An applicant shall be credited flight time as follows:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) not more than 50% of the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time for a total of up to 100 hours in the case of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane and up to 150 hours in the case of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Helicopter may be credited toward pilot-in-command experience requirements; and

(b) Pilot-in-command under supervision flight time, provided such flight time is acquired within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence for which the flight time is to be credited.

(6) When an application for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence is based in part on pilot-in-command under supervision flight time, the applicant shall:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) submit a personal log or other reliable record that contains a summary of the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time and the number of takeoffs and landings; and

(b) enter a notation on the application form showing the portion of pilot-in-command flight time that was done under supervision.

I would think that you are both right - it's just that the Dash company didn't have the program for PIC under supervision set up, while CMA does..

[flydream]

If I'm wrong, how is it that every pilot that has come through these doors (most starting their careers here), get their A's?

Maybe because they flew 3000h as FOs before they got their A licence?

I think that the answer lies somewhere in here

Ok,but keep in mind that it's only good for 100h:

(a) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane shall be given credit for up to 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision

flying4dollars,are you sure you're not talking about the rule to log time as an FO?
You can't log any hours at all unless you're FO on a plane certified 2 crew or on a plane certified single pilot but operated 2 crew (and it should be written in the SOPs and you should be able to provide a letter from your chief pilot stating that indeed they operate 2 crew).That way you're allowed to log all your hours as an FO,but they will count for half towards your ATPL.

[flying4dollars]

If I'm wrong, how is it that every pilot that has come through these doors (most starting their careers here), get their A's?

Maybe because they flew 3000h as FOs before they got their A licence?

I think that the answer lies somewhere in here

Ok,but keep in mind that it's only good for 100h:

(a) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane shall be given credit for up to 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision

flying4dollars,are you sure you're not talking about the rule to log time as an FO?
You can't log any hours at all unless you're FO on a plane >12,500 lbs or on a plane certified single pilot but operated 2 crew (and it should be written in the SOPs and you should be able to provide a letter from your chief pilot stating that indeed they operate 2 crew).That way you're allowed to log all your hours as an FO,but they will count for half towards your ATPL.

The F/O's here did not log 3000 hrs co-pilot time. We've had numerous guys with 15-1700 hrs get their A's with all previous time being logged as 1 for 1

Our client requires us to operate 2 crew, so we do (only on twins). All we need is a letter from out Ops manager to confirm that all co-pilot time was flown as mandatory 2 crew. It will then be counted 1 for 1.

Thats how its been here anyways.

I think a lot of companies adopt this as well (Syncrude, Suncore etc. contracts require 2 crew)

[flydream]

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... pilot+time

[altiplano]

4dollars is a few bucks short...

sorry man, but you are wrong. the only way those guys got A's with 1500 hours of cojo time is if they wrote it in there logbook as pic.

[. .]

I'm going to have to agree, even if you're flying a designated 2 crew aircraft like a dash-8 as co-pilot it can only be logged as 1/2 credit towards the atpl. Anyone with 1500hrs and even 1hr of co-pilot time on a dash-8 couldn't by law have a atpl, so your myth is busted dude.

[flying4dollars]

I'm going to have to agree, even if you're flying a designated 2 crew aircraft like a dash-8 as co-pilot it can only be logged as 1/2 credit towards the atpl. Anyone with 1500hrs and even 1hr of co-pilot time on a dash-8 couldn't by law have a atpl, so your myth is busted dude.

Hmmm, well I'll never admit I'm always 100% right, so I'll find out from my ops mgr what the stipulations are

I could very well have been wrong and/or misinformed this whole time

But I'll check

[Donald]

Hmmm, well I'll never admit I'm always 100% right, so I'll find out from my ops mgr what the stipulations are

I could very well have been wrong and/or misinformed this whole time

But I'll check

Your ops manager is not authorized to issue ATPL's. The answer you seek lies in the CAR's or ultimately the TC licensing office. Perhaps you should direct your question to the appropriate person? I know what the response would be from some of my previous ops mgr's if I, a pilot, did not know the reg's for pilot licensing.

[C-GGGQ]

I never understood why you can't work while you train. Work the ramp/dock, while you are learning to fly. You are getting to put in time in an entry level position in the companies organizational structure (like nearly every profession out there) , establishing a reputation for your work ethic, loyalty etc, and making some money towards your flying lessons in the first place. Your newly acquired skills aren't fading while you toil away in the snow or rain humping bags and wiping oil off beaver bellies and After you get the 250hrs and the shiny license, you are promotable to a flying position, or you are not.

I did but unfortunately there are no companies around where I trained that hired low timers/ promoted from within. I work full time as a ramp hand for AC for the year I took my CPL.

[looproll]

421.10 Crediting of Flight Time Acquired by a Co-pilot

The holder of a pilot licence may be credited not more than 50% of co-pilot flight time towards the total flight time required for the issuance of a higher class of pilot licence.
(amended 1998/12/01; previous version)

[HuD 91gt]

Technically speaking, no one would need 3000 hours. The maximum amount of hours needed would be 2800(Minus any dual that done), since all hours leading to the commercial count towards the ATPL :p Just to make sure everyone is clear :p

[E-Flyer]

They do have a low-timer program where you have to have 250 hrs, CPL, IR and IATRA complete. You'll do an interview, work the ramp at the base of your choice (last I heard it was about a 15 month gig), and wait your turn.

So the 250hr guy isn't qualified to fly the plane when they are hired but after thay have done 15 months on the ramp they are? What changes in those 15 months other than they are farther in debt and have a sore back?

For all I see... they have lost competence after 15 months on the ground. Unless the ground pay was good enough to keep them flying monthly which I see being an impossible reality.

[jrbloatedfish]

Flying4dollars,

The guys at your company who had very little PIC time have had to spend time on the 100 before getting their ATPL.

[flying4dollars]

Disregard my posts..I was wrong and misinformed

[square]

All hail GGGQ, he has raised the dead.