exactly. company culture... once again.The Hammer wrote:That would be a training/ company mentality issue.
Careful if you lose hydraulics
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
Drinking outside the box.
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
Of the four aircraft I have flown in the transport category, only 1 used Skydrol, The rest use the usual flammable red stuff.
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
I used to fly a SAAB.... the checklist does say not to taxi.... company guy trying not to make trouble I guess.
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
Did someone mention banjo?
Seriously, though. I can see how easy it would be to overlook what might have happened. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.
I fly an airplane that heavily relies on hydraulics. HEAVILY. There is no waffling - if there's a hydraulic issue, you land at the nearest suitable field, no questions asked. Even with 2 hydraulic systems on board, we don't take a chance. Our last issue was a damaged 0-ring on the high pressure line out of the left engine driven pump... at 3000 PSI it would have pissed all of our fluid out before destination & we'd have no flaps, brakes, gear, nosewheel steering.....
Gotta love old technology!
PS - s&j - I met JD Crowe in Nashville in February... NEENER
Seriously, though. I can see how easy it would be to overlook what might have happened. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.
I fly an airplane that heavily relies on hydraulics. HEAVILY. There is no waffling - if there's a hydraulic issue, you land at the nearest suitable field, no questions asked. Even with 2 hydraulic systems on board, we don't take a chance. Our last issue was a damaged 0-ring on the high pressure line out of the left engine driven pump... at 3000 PSI it would have pissed all of our fluid out before destination & we'd have no flaps, brakes, gear, nosewheel steering.....
Gotta love old technology!
PS - s&j - I met JD Crowe in Nashville in February... NEENER
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
Geez Flybabe, you're not flying a 748 are you?
Drinking outside the box.
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
Skydrol is NOT non-flammable! It has a higher flash-point than other, less toxic fluids and it has specific purposes, but it will burn just fine, thank you. Note the flashpoint is 215 degrees. This is one version of Skydrol:
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
-
Material Safety Data Sheet
1. IDENTIFICATION
Preparation MCS 2361
Company
Solutia Europe S.A./N.V. - Parc Scientifique - Fleming
rue Laid Burniat, 3 - B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve (Sud) - BELGIUM
Tel. : +32(0)10 48 15 50 - Fax : 0800 89 82 76
Emergency telephone
+32(0)3.568 5123 (Belgium)
________________________________________________________________________
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Composition
Modified alkyl-aryl phosphate ester
CAS No. : 1241-94-7 Einecs No. : 214-987-2
Additives
Contains the following :
Proprietary corrosion inhibitor
Anti-foam agent
Dye C.I. solvent blue
CAS No. : 14233-37-5
Details of composition are confidential.
Page: 1
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
________________________________________________________________________
3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Human health effects
On the basis of available information, this material is not
expected to produce any significant adverse health effects when
recommended use instructions are followed.
Environmental effects
May cause adverse effects.
_________________________________________________________________________
4. FIRST-AID MEASURES
Skin contact
Wash immediately with plenty of water.
Use soap if available.
Grossly contaminated clothing
Take off immediately all contaminated clothing.
Wash before re-use.
Eye contact
Rinse immediately with plenty of water.
Inhalation
Remove patient to fresh air.
If breathing is difficult give oxygen.
Apply artificial respiration if patient is not breathing.
________________________________________________________________________
5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Extinguishing media
Extinguish with waterspray, foam, CO2, dry chemical.
Exposure hazards
When very strongly heated (> 300°C) decomposes to give off toxic
fumes.
Protective equipment
Firefighters, and others exposed, wear self contained breathing
apparatus.
________________________________________________________________________
6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Personal precautions
Avoid breathing vapour from hot material.
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
Avoid contact with skin and eyes.
Product may cause a slip hazard.
Environmental precautions
Keep out of drains and water courses.
Methods for cleaning up
Absorb in earth or sand.
__________________________________________________________________________
7. HANDLING AND STORAGE
Handling
Good industrial practice in housekeeping and personal hygiene
should be followed.
Use only in well ventilated areas.
Storage
Keep container tightly closed.
No other special precautions appear necessary.
________________________________________________________________________
8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Respiratory protection
Avoid breathing vapour from hot material.
Hand protection
Wear impermeable gloves.
Eye protection
No special requirement.
Skin protection
Wear suitable protective clothing.
________________________________________________________________________
9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Appearance : clear to cloudy blue liquid (ASTM D 2155)
Boiling point : 375.0 °C (pressure 101.32 kPa) (ASTM D 2155)
Flash point : 215.5 °C (open cup Cleveland)
Auto ignition temperature : 521.1 °C (ASTM D 2155)
Kinematic viscosity : 0.0000098-0.0000106 m2/s (temperature 38 °C)(ASTM D 2155)
Pour point : - 56.6 °C (ASTM D 2155)
Specific gravity : 1.085 - 1.095 (25 °C / 25 °C) (ASTM D 2155)
Vapour density : > 1 kg/m3 (air=1) (ASTM D 2155)
Vapour pressure : 0.00026 kPa (temperature 93 °C) (ASTM D 2155)
Water solubility : practically insoluble (ASTM D 2155)
________________________________________________________________________
10. STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
Conditions to avoid
This material possesses no particular hazardous chemical
reactivity properties.
Materials to avoid
None.
Hazardous decomposition products
Decomposition products : oxides of phosphorus, CO2, CO and hydrocarbons.
__________________________________________________________________________
11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Laboratory data
Solutia has not conducted toxicity studies on this product.
Data obtained on main component are summarized below :
Oral LD50 (rat) : > 15800 mg/kg.
Dermal LD50 (rabbit) : > 7940 mg/kg.
Mean EU skin irritation scores (per rabbit, 24 h exposure) :
redness : 1.66/1.00/2.00
swelling : 0/0/0
Mean EU eye irritation scores (per rabbit, 24 h exposure) :
redness of conjunctivae : 0.66/0.66/0.66
swelling of conjunctivae : 0/0/0
corneal opacity : 0/0/0
iris lesions : 0/0/0
Human data
The main component is not considered to be a primary skin irritant
nor a skin sensitizer. These conclusions are based on a study
involving 200 subjects under occlusion for 48 hours.
________________________________________________________________________
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Solutia has not conducted environmental studies on this product.
Data obtained on main component are summarized below :
Aquatic toxicity
96 h LC50 Bluegill sunfish (Lepomis macrochirus) : 32 mg/l.
96 h LC50 Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) : 15 mg/l.
96 h LC50 Fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas) : 14 mg/l.
48 h LC50 Water flea (Daphnia magna) : 0.15 mg/l.
48 h LC50 Midge (Paratanytarsus parthogenogenetica) : 0.5 mg/l.
Biodegradation
The main component was evaluated in a series of aquatic
studies to determine its half life and biodegradability.
Page: 4
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
Modified SCAS test : 74 +/- 9 % at 3 mg/l.
Modified Sturm test : CO2 evolution was 82.3 % at 21.6 mg/l.
Test concentration : 28 days.
In a river die away test : 1 mg/l. The half life was 1-3 days.
Readily biodegradable.
________________________________________________________________________
13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Small quantities : Burn in proper incinerator.
Large quantities : Consult Solutia for specialist advice.
All local and national regulations should be followed.
________________________________________________________________________
14. TRANSPORT INFORMATION
Regulated ROAD/RAIL : yes
AIR : no
SEA : yes
Proper Shipping Name:
ENVIRONMENTALLY HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES, LIQUID, N.O.S.
UN Class : 9 UN No. : 3082
Packing Group : III
ROAD/RAIL
ADR/RID Class : 9 Marginal : 2901
Item : 11c
Hazchemcode : 2x Kemler : 90
SEA
IMO Class : 9 Page : 9028
Emergency Schedule, EmS No. : 8-10
Marine pollutant (P).
________________________________________________________________________
15. REGULATORY INFORMATION
EC label
None.
________________________________________________________________________
16. OTHER INFORMATION
This Material Safety Data Sheet has been prepared on the basis of
product application as a fire retardant hydraulic fluid.
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
-
Material Safety Data Sheet
1. IDENTIFICATION
Preparation MCS 2361
Company
Solutia Europe S.A./N.V. - Parc Scientifique - Fleming
rue Laid Burniat, 3 - B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve (Sud) - BELGIUM
Tel. : +32(0)10 48 15 50 - Fax : 0800 89 82 76
Emergency telephone
+32(0)3.568 5123 (Belgium)
________________________________________________________________________
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Composition
Modified alkyl-aryl phosphate ester
CAS No. : 1241-94-7 Einecs No. : 214-987-2
Additives
Contains the following :
Proprietary corrosion inhibitor
Anti-foam agent
Dye C.I. solvent blue
CAS No. : 14233-37-5
Details of composition are confidential.
Page: 1
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
________________________________________________________________________
3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Human health effects
On the basis of available information, this material is not
expected to produce any significant adverse health effects when
recommended use instructions are followed.
Environmental effects
May cause adverse effects.
_________________________________________________________________________
4. FIRST-AID MEASURES
Skin contact
Wash immediately with plenty of water.
Use soap if available.
Grossly contaminated clothing
Take off immediately all contaminated clothing.
Wash before re-use.
Eye contact
Rinse immediately with plenty of water.
Inhalation
Remove patient to fresh air.
If breathing is difficult give oxygen.
Apply artificial respiration if patient is not breathing.
________________________________________________________________________
5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Extinguishing media
Extinguish with waterspray, foam, CO2, dry chemical.
Exposure hazards
When very strongly heated (> 300°C) decomposes to give off toxic
fumes.
Protective equipment
Firefighters, and others exposed, wear self contained breathing
apparatus.
________________________________________________________________________
6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Personal precautions
Avoid breathing vapour from hot material.
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
Avoid contact with skin and eyes.
Product may cause a slip hazard.
Environmental precautions
Keep out of drains and water courses.
Methods for cleaning up
Absorb in earth or sand.
__________________________________________________________________________
7. HANDLING AND STORAGE
Handling
Good industrial practice in housekeeping and personal hygiene
should be followed.
Use only in well ventilated areas.
Storage
Keep container tightly closed.
No other special precautions appear necessary.
________________________________________________________________________
8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Respiratory protection
Avoid breathing vapour from hot material.
Hand protection
Wear impermeable gloves.
Eye protection
No special requirement.
Skin protection
Wear suitable protective clothing.
________________________________________________________________________
9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Appearance : clear to cloudy blue liquid (ASTM D 2155)
Boiling point : 375.0 °C (pressure 101.32 kPa) (ASTM D 2155)
Flash point : 215.5 °C (open cup Cleveland)
Auto ignition temperature : 521.1 °C (ASTM D 2155)
Kinematic viscosity : 0.0000098-0.0000106 m2/s (temperature 38 °C)(ASTM D 2155)
Pour point : - 56.6 °C (ASTM D 2155)
Specific gravity : 1.085 - 1.095 (25 °C / 25 °C) (ASTM D 2155)
Vapour density : > 1 kg/m3 (air=1) (ASTM D 2155)
Vapour pressure : 0.00026 kPa (temperature 93 °C) (ASTM D 2155)
Water solubility : practically insoluble (ASTM D 2155)
________________________________________________________________________
10. STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
Conditions to avoid
This material possesses no particular hazardous chemical
reactivity properties.
Materials to avoid
None.
Hazardous decomposition products
Decomposition products : oxides of phosphorus, CO2, CO and hydrocarbons.
__________________________________________________________________________
11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Laboratory data
Solutia has not conducted toxicity studies on this product.
Data obtained on main component are summarized below :
Oral LD50 (rat) : > 15800 mg/kg.
Dermal LD50 (rabbit) : > 7940 mg/kg.
Mean EU skin irritation scores (per rabbit, 24 h exposure) :
redness : 1.66/1.00/2.00
swelling : 0/0/0
Mean EU eye irritation scores (per rabbit, 24 h exposure) :
redness of conjunctivae : 0.66/0.66/0.66
swelling of conjunctivae : 0/0/0
corneal opacity : 0/0/0
iris lesions : 0/0/0
Human data
The main component is not considered to be a primary skin irritant
nor a skin sensitizer. These conclusions are based on a study
involving 200 subjects under occlusion for 48 hours.
________________________________________________________________________
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Solutia has not conducted environmental studies on this product.
Data obtained on main component are summarized below :
Aquatic toxicity
96 h LC50 Bluegill sunfish (Lepomis macrochirus) : 32 mg/l.
96 h LC50 Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) : 15 mg/l.
96 h LC50 Fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas) : 14 mg/l.
48 h LC50 Water flea (Daphnia magna) : 0.15 mg/l.
48 h LC50 Midge (Paratanytarsus parthogenogenetica) : 0.5 mg/l.
Biodegradation
The main component was evaluated in a series of aquatic
studies to determine its half life and biodegradability.
Page: 4
MSDS Name: MCS-2361 (000000000140)
Modified SCAS test : 74 +/- 9 % at 3 mg/l.
Modified Sturm test : CO2 evolution was 82.3 % at 21.6 mg/l.
Test concentration : 28 days.
In a river die away test : 1 mg/l. The half life was 1-3 days.
Readily biodegradable.
________________________________________________________________________
13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Small quantities : Burn in proper incinerator.
Large quantities : Consult Solutia for specialist advice.
All local and national regulations should be followed.
________________________________________________________________________
14. TRANSPORT INFORMATION
Regulated ROAD/RAIL : yes
AIR : no
SEA : yes
Proper Shipping Name:
ENVIRONMENTALLY HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES, LIQUID, N.O.S.
UN Class : 9 UN No. : 3082
Packing Group : III
ROAD/RAIL
ADR/RID Class : 9 Marginal : 2901
Item : 11c
Hazchemcode : 2x Kemler : 90
SEA
IMO Class : 9 Page : 9028
Emergency Schedule, EmS No. : 8-10
Marine pollutant (P).
________________________________________________________________________
15. REGULATORY INFORMATION
EC label
None.
________________________________________________________________________
16. OTHER INFORMATION
This Material Safety Data Sheet has been prepared on the basis of
product application as a fire retardant hydraulic fluid.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Re: Careful if you lose hydraulics
Four1oh - nope.. not a 748. 
Good guess, though 
Good guess, though Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
