JAZZ sold?

dwightschroot · Post by **dwightschroot** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:52 pm

What effect is this going to have on mainline, if any?

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:13 pm

JAZZ will be getting EMBs starting 2009.

Next rumour?

ziggy · Post by **ziggy** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:22 pm

WestJet is buying them for their new regional carrier. Hell, all their pilots are going there anyways!!

dwightschroot · Post by **dwightschroot** » Thu May 29, 2008 5:05 pm

does this mean they will lose some travling privilages?what exactly is an income fund?does this mean they are their own separate entity now, nothing to do with mainline?

mighty mouse · Post by **mighty mouse** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:07 am

dwightschroot wrote:does this mean they will lose some traveling privileges?what exactly is an income fund?does this mean they are their own separate entity now, nothing to do with mainline?

Why should they lose their travel privileges? AC currently has jumpseat agreements with companies who cannot even reciprocate. At worst Jazz should just become another jumseat agreement.

dwightschroot · Post by **dwightschroot** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:44 am

Of course the jumpseat woud be there but what about personal travel such as C2 and C1 stby. does this mean they go to the bottom below the mainline employees now?if they arent owned by ACE anymore than why would they be ahead of anyone at mainline? just curious.

rudder · Post by **rudder** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:01 am

What is AC travel priority on AC flts operated by GGN?

Foxe · Post by **Foxe** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:48 am

ok if it's going that way end of the list for Jazz employees, what about end of the list for Mainline employees commuting on Jazz flights ? Hum... even before ACE ( created after AC bankruptcy), Jazz and Mainline employees were on the same list for travelling and still be. It won't change anything for Aeroplan employees. ACTS, Air canada vacations employees. Traveling privilege is a too big issue to play with it or change the seniority system.

piggy · Post by **piggy** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:29 pm

This topic is an example of the underlying reasons why the AC group of companies has the wrong approach in the long run. Because it is all about divide the groups and every man for your self. JAzz is not going away no matter how much mainline guys want that. And mainline will always treat jazz as second class no matter how much jazz wants to be a part of the team. With this attitude, the end result is customer service that is below the competitors.

Glen Quagmire · Post by **Glen Quagmire** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:54 pm

I thought ACTS employees lost their passes. I assume travel will go to C2 day of travel for AC on Jazz and vice versa. How do the Americans do it with their CPA partners?

whiteguy · Post by **whiteguy** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:45 pm

Foxe wrote:ok if it's going that way end of the list for Jazz employees, what about end of the list for Mainline employees commuting on Jazz flights ? Hum... even before ACE ( created after AC bankruptcy), Jazz and Mainline employees were on the same list for travelling and still be. It won't change anything for Aeroplan employees. ACTS, Air canada vacations employees. Traveling privilege is a too big issue to play with it or change the seniority system.

Wrong. Around that time the seniority was all changed. Before the change AC employees on a Jazz/Air Canada Reg aircraft were a C3 priority. On AC metal Jazz employee was a C3. Its been changed before so can't see why it can't be changed again. I doubt very much that it will be changed though.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat May 31, 2008 12:33 pm

Now that we are all separate companies and the end of ACE is near, I don't see why Jazz seniority should count when travelling on mainline flts. Look for this one to come up in '09.

popo · Post by **popo** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:01 pm

As far Passes are concerned...I think Jazz should go at the bottom after all the AC employees..ditto for GGN..they should be in the pool with all the others Westjet....

when I go on Westjet I go after their employees and I am fine with that that the way it should be.
It bugs me..to stay on the bench while trying to go on AC flight while the Jazz guys get his J seat.they don't even work for the company, I am trying to go to work...to fly an AC aircraft..meanwhile I don't make it and the Jazz pilot get on the AC flight to go and fly his Jazz flight?????!!!! go figure?????.
I hope things change with the new contract.

Sorry but it should be fare...employee first.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:34 pm

Dont forget that would be a 2 way street. There are hundreds of AC employees who commute on Jazz. YQB or YQT for example.
But hey, I agree, separate company is separate company.

rudder · Post by **rudder** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:00 pm

If Jazz gets reduced on travel priority I wish good luck to any mainline employee asking for a Jazz jumpseat to get to work or get home. Everybody knows that the jumpseat should not be used as a weapon, but there are only a fraction that commute and many more that would feel the sting of non-existent boarding priority.

Thankfully travel priority is a company policy and not a negotiated right. Still, it has not stopped the powers that be from doing the right thing, nor will it prevent them from doing the wrong thing.

Perhaps everybody should do a little homework on how this is handled on other properties. You may be surprised by what you learn.

ourkid2000 · Post by **ourkid2000** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:18 pm

I have to agree that things should not change.

We have so many problems already and this would almost certainly start a war between the employees. This is something we cannot afford to happen again. There's already enough divisions between us for god's sakes.

Its a 2 way street anyways..........many people use Jazz to commute to mainline and its just another headache we really don't need. Things are decent as they are.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:21 pm

Jazz.
I'm having a a bit of confusion with your take. The company decided, for whatever reason (gee, could it be to antagonize mainline??) a few years ago, to give Jazz date of hire priority on mainline. Yikes. That's hitting below the belt. Now that we are separate companies, why should this continue?? Think again if this isn't up for negotiation. The company sees this as a tool against mainline. As it were, we at mainline will now have to give something up to get this changed. The company, AC that is, will continue to play in this "grey area" as long as they can. But we all know that game no longer can be played. We are no longer the same company in so many ways. We share a color and we feed each other. That's it. As for the jumpseat, two can play that game. And with more flts worldwide than Jazz, I would think mainline has the advantage on that one.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Sat May 31, 2008 5:59 pm

Tony, I don't usually disagree with much you have to say on here, but being a commuter and seeing the number of A/C pilots and F/A's that use Jazz to get to work, I'm not I agree with you on who would be hurt more if they decided to axe the travel agreement. Personally I think its all a moot point anyway as I don't see it changing anytime in the near future...

Go Guns · Post by **Go Guns** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:03 pm

Divide and conquer. Somebody somewhere is reading this and laughing mischievously.... just like they planned it....

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:19 pm

I agree nothing may change soon, but just think back how things were before they gave Jazz date of hire priority on mainline. How much worse was it? They still had better priority over you on their flts. Under the current agreement they screw you at Jazz AND at mailine. They gained, you lost. I'm a commuter too and haven't been affected yet but I keep picturing myself trying to get back from Europe and a Jazz employee with more "seniority" getting better priority than me. For mainline commuters up north or in the the Jazz network, I don't think it matters all that much given the frequency of flts in most places. The way it was is the way it is. What you've lost is the level of fairness on your own metal.

Divide and conquer. Somebody somewhere is reading this and laughing mischievously.... just like they planned it....

They can laugh all they want, we too can use it as a barganing tool.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:04 am

There was a time when commuting was frowned upon if not actively discouraged. If pilot jump seat infighting gets out of hand perhaps we may see a return to the good old days. (not)

Be careful boys and girls you may get what you wish for, especially at a time when the outlook for the industry is pretty grim.

The Hammer · Post by **The Hammer** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:58 am

Tony

I'll gladly take C4 once a year when I go on vacation if your commuters will take C4 every time they commute from Nanaimo, victoria, kelowna, st.john, moncton, freddy, Tbay , toon town, bagina, calgary to everywhere in the west. Who actually has more exclusive destinations in Canada???

The fundamentals (ie seperate companies) are there but it would create a lot of head aches for all. In theory, as seperate comapnies with just a CPA, one could argue that only the j/s agreement remain.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:34 am

Ok I must be missing something here. Do AC not have C4 n Jazz? Or has that changed? What's changed is Jazz now get DOH on mainline for sure. And with hundreds of AC newhires who commute on mainline metal this could pose problems for these people travelling on their own airplanes. All we want is for things to be the way they used to be and give mainliners back their priority on our own flights. If it's DOH for everyone on both carriers with the same priority, then I don't have a problem with it. But sooner or later I see this coming to an end being separate companies.

popo · Post by **popo** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:51 am

Nicely said Tony.
I agree..and I asked for it in the survey that's all i have to say. Now we will see what happen..
I don't see it changing..no unity in this company!!.
people are too busy fighting about pension and seniority list!!!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:06 pm

popo.
don't despair. If enough people gave it importance on the survey, ACPA has no choice but to address it and bring it to the table in '09. Not saying it will be changed but at least the attempt will be made. Isn't this fun? What did you guys think of the survey???

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