Successful transition from FSS to ATC

[SpeedRacer]

I've heard the horror stories of FSS who have tried to make the switch to FSS and failed. I was wondering if there is anyone on this forum that has made the transition sucessfully. Would love to hear what that experience was like. Was your FSS experience an aid or a disadvantage? I find it hard to believe, but is there any truth to rumours that ATC purposefully make it more difficult for FSS to check out as controllers? Any thoughts on this would be great.

[W0XOF]

I can tell that I know 5 FSS personally who had no problems, 3 IFR, 2 VFR. Then there are also the stories of people I have only heard of who don't make it. It's not so much your experience but the type of person you are. Some just get it some don't. There are FSS who can't check out at any other FSS as there are also some VFR controllers who can't check out at any other tower neither.

Obviously understanding the system and how things work is a huge advantage. But remember, there people who are book smart and others who are street smart.

[sigmet77]

I know a bunch of guys that have done it with no problem. The stories of the ATC not checking out a guy because he came from FSS are from the old days and they probably weren't true then. If you are good enough to do the job you should make it, just don't expect to make it based on the fact that you have FSS experience. If you want to go down that path give it a try, I haven't heard too many guys complain about the switch.

[devanrules]

The training isn't the hard part, getting into it is.
There's a 5 year restriction for any FSS to crosstrain to ATC. Stupid EOCO program.... but I'm not bitter

[sh*t magnet]

The training isn't the hard part

Spoken like a true FSS that has never done it

getting into it is

Why shouldn't FSS cross trainers have to meet the same selection criteria as everybody else?

There's a 5 year restriction for any FSS to crosstrain to ATC. Stupid EOCO program.... but I'm not bitter

One of the main reasons that the company hasn't made it any easier for FSS to cross train is that ex FSS have a no better success rate than someone right off the street. So why would the company take someone out of an FSS, pay overtime to replace them, pay them to train for ATC, then pay them a higher rate if they qualify, when they can take somebody off the street that doesn't cost them near as much that has an equal chance of success.

It's not rocket science.

[thatdaveguy]

Sadly I got to agree with shit magnet.

If it were too easy to EOCO, everyone would apply for FSS for the greater chance of checkout, then immediately apply for VFR.

[grimey]

The training isn't the hard part

Spoken like a true FSS that has never done it

He's new, IMO he's exccused. But I think his point was that it's actually easier for an FSS to quit and reapply than to apply through EOCO. But yea, unless you've done the training, don't assume that FSS and VFR are the same or even similar. I might explain FSS as being similar to controlling to someone in a bar, but as far as the skillsets required, they're not. There's a huge difference between an advisory service and positive control. Yes, an FSS at McMurray may be able to handle as much traffic as an ATC at an ATC-1 site. This says nothing about the difficulty of training or the efficiencies gained through positive control. They are different jobs, with different aptitudes and skill sets required for the job. When I was at NCTI, shortly before checkout, I sat in on a couple of the VFR trainees reviewing their sim runs. All I could think of was how hard it would be to do the same job as them with the tools I had available to me.

If FSS want to be ATC, apply for EOCO. Don't get cocky and assume you'll pass just because you're FSS. Sure, being comfortable on the mike gives you some advantage. Being indoctrinated into the FSS way of doing things for at least 5 years gives you a bigass disadvantage, as far as I'm concerned. They're different jobs, suited to different circumstances, requiring different skill sets. The only concern I have is that both jobs are treated with an equal amount of respect. If controllers get paid more, fine. If they get different basic entitlements (preferential housing, etc), I think that's wrong.

/an FSS who's happy as an FSS.

[inmyairspace]

I went thru the EOCO program, not from FSS tho, I was a GT, (it's the group with ATOS,TSS etc). I was nearing completion at NCTI, and I had a conflab with one of the guys that was a manager in Tech Training, (whom I had met thru my old job). We were talking about the EOCO, and specifically the less than spectacular success rate of FSS to ATC via EOCO. His theory, (he implied that it was accepted among his colleagues) was that it had to do with return rights to their old job. As a FSS entering EOCO, you have return rights while at NCTI, even after you graduated NCTI, but the moment you set foot at your assigned tower, those were gone, and if you happened to get CT'd during OJT, you were out of luck. He thought that because of this, people that were just finishing NCTI thought to themselves, "I'm not sure I can do this at the site, so I will return to the security of my old job instead of risking everything on checking out". It made sense to me, and he told me that they were going to lobby to change the rules so that the return rights existed for the duration of the training - to license or CT, hopefully the former. If I'm not mistaken, there was a change along those lines within the last 2 years or so - don't quote me on it tho - us operational guys don't pay a lot of attention to that stuff
Oh ya, and it was the best career move I have ever made, bar none. I tell anyone that asks me that I have the best job in the world.

[bigfssguy]

The rules were changed last year. Now anyone entering the EOCO program have return rights to their former station until they're done the initial school training phase. Once they move onto the OJT phase they still have return rights it is just at the discretion of the company where there posting will be. That being said i never heard of any FSS that went through the EOCO that CT'd during the OJT phase that didnt get offered a spot back in FSS. It's kind of silly to take a perfectly fine FSS and turf them becasue of EOCO then turn around and have to train another person off the street. It's simple math, it's cheaper to bring back the former FSS rather than train an FSS from scratch.

[inmyairspace]

I thought it seemed pretty ridiculous to put a highly trained, proven professional on the street as well - but the company has done some strange things. It would make perfect sense to send them back, or at the very least, send them to a unit that is short - but it would be a little intimidating to *not* have anything beneficial in writing. Like you , I have heard no stories of RO's that were CT'd from EOCO and sacked - thankfully.

[scrambled_legs]

I find it humorous when FSS complain about not being able to transfer to ATC whenever they feel like it. You just applied for a 25-35 year career and you didn't take the time to research the differences between FSS and ATC. Then after the company spends a pile of money training you to work in a specific specialty, you get pissed off that they won't help you quit that specialty and start a new one with another huge training bill attached.

If the hardest thing is getting in, then grow a set and quit and apply for ATC. Just be thankful the company lets you transfer at all because from a business standpoint, it'd make more sense to let you quit the company period and hire someone else off the street.

[thatdaveguy]

I find it humorous when FSS complain about not being able to transfer to ATC whenever they feel like it. You just applied for a 25-35 year career and you didn't take the time to research the differences between FSS and ATC. Then after the company spends a pile of money training you to work in a specific specialty, you get pissed off that they won't help you quit that specialty and start a new one with another huge training bill attached.

If the hardest thing is getting in, then grow a set and quit and apply for ATC. Just be thankful the company lets you transfer at all because from a business standpoint, it'd make more sense to let you quit the company period and hire someone else off the street.

A little arrogance eh?

Grow a set? Genius. I'd quit my job and throw away something I love doing because they may not reconsider me if I reapply. Superb idea.

Fortunately they don't let people like you make decisions, and the rules governing EOCO are becoming more reasonable.

[grimey]

The training isn't the hard part, getting into it is.
There's a 5 year restriction for any FSS to crosstrain to ATC. Stupid EOCO program.... but I'm not bitter

If the hardest thing is getting in, then grow a set and quit and apply for ATC. Just be thankful the company lets you transfer at all because from a business standpoint, it'd make more sense to let you quit the company period and hire someone else off the street.

Grow a set? Genius. I'd quit my job and throw away something I love doing because they may not reconsider me if I reapply. Superb idea.

Fortunately they don't let people like you make decisions, and the rules governing EOCO are becoming more reasonable.

Do they teach reading comprehension in anger management courses?

[thatdaveguy]

It was removed from the curriculum.