Emergency Procedures!

[Rockie]

on my C180 float checkout, the check pilot pulled the throttle on me, and said, ok, now where are you gonna put it? I had taken off, and still climbing at a low altitude, I had turned on course, outside of gliding range of water. Made me think. After that, if I had an option, I'd stay close to water... That option wasn't always there, but I minimized the 'dry land' option when I could after that.

I also recommend reading accident reports. I laugh when people look at me funny when I watch airline disasters on TV. I just tell them school's in.

Good thing the engine came back. He would have looked pretty silly if it hadn't.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Good thing the engine came back. He would have looked pretty silly if it hadn't.

That is the beauty of having a simulator to practice emergencies in.

You never risk your life in a sim.

[Flying Low]

How does a flap 20 takeoff rather than flap 5 reduce wear and tear on the brakes? If flap 5 is used it is one less thing to deal with during an engine failure and a whole lot less drag.

Actually...in the MU2 the flap setting is irrelavent. You DO NOT bring up the flaps right away...in fact there have been several accident reports where bringing up the flaps ended up bringing down the plane. This is why it is so important to be on top of your drills and emergency procedures as they apply to the plane you are flying!

[jetflightinstructor]

*

[xsbank]

I've decided to make this my crusade. Deal with it.

If anybody reading this cannot recite their "Engine Fire Severe Damage in Flight" emergency memory items RIGHT NOW then you should take a day off, go sit in a quiet room and memorize them!! If you can't do this LETTER PERFECT, you're grounded until you can get it right.

Uncle Bank has spoken.

Now give me the Emergency Evacuation drill. Right now. Got it right?

Emergency Descent?

[Four1oh]

Pffft, that only happens to other people.

[oldtimer]

A lot of pilots have put some good input to this thread but one thing is missing. Certification standards.
If I hold a PPL and multi rating, I can LEGALLY,(not smart , just legally) go to the Piper store, say "I want that big red one, cross their palms with much gold and fly away. 5 take-off's and landings before you carry passengers and away you go. If you hold a comercial pilot licence, same thing if it is a non-high performance airplane.
Now, if it is a high preformance, sFAR 23, sFAR41 or Transport Category airplane, you have to have a type rating on the airplane. You have to be trained on how to fly the airplane safely.
What effect does this have?
In my opinion, small, non high performance airplanes do not have a regulatory requirement to have any formal training in order to fly the airplane and the manufacturer designs the emergency procedures to be more airplane type specific so one size does not fit all. The only procedure that is common is engine failure on take-off. If an engine quits on take-off, shut both down, find something soft and cheap to land on. A bar is under the seat which helps the pilot bend over double so as to kiss his sweet ass goodby. Just look at the engine failure procedures for a Navajo. It s a whole 2 pages with numerous SUGGESTIONS.
In the high performance airplanes, sFAR41 or ICAO annex 8, Commuter Category or Transport Category, since a pilot requires training before he recieves a type rating, emergency procedures, although airplane type specific, are all the same. These airplanes have specific performance parameters that have to be met but as a general rule, emergency procedures are the same for all airplanes. sFAR41 Commuter Category and Transport category airplanes all use the same basic procedures for emergency procedures. They may use different configurations to achieve different performance numbers but the procedures are all the same. If an engine quite on take-off, basically the only action required below 400 feet AAE is to retract the landing gear. Hence the requirement for auto-feather or power enhancement such as Water Methanol. The procedures were the same for the Lear 25, Gulfstream G1, Beech 350 and Metro 111. In the Gulfstream, we had the following flap position. Take-off was 12 degrees, Approach was 20 degrees and Landing was 33 degrees. Gulfstream came up with a mod called the 6.5 degree mod where by Flaps -Take-off gave us 6.5 degrees, Flaps -Approach gave us 12 degrees and Flaps- Landing gave us 33 degrees. This way, we were able to sacrfice runway length for improved OEI second segment climb and missed approach climb but the procedures and the emergency procedures were unchanged.
One exception to all this is sFAR23 airplanes. These airplanes use techniques developed by the test pilots to meet performance targets. They may be different procedures, such as retracting the landing gear while still in ground effect.
So now we have pilots who need the training the most receive the least. But that is the way the laws are written and that is the way things are. Like it or lump it.
Life is a bitch and then you die.

[square]

Well I just read my emergencies, leaving them squarely on top of the toilet.

[Coast-dog]

I guess that training / PPC wasn't worth the money they paid for it

I hope I read about you losing your job.
That's a really low blow.

Hows it a low blow? you get what you pay for, obviosly the training wasn't worth the money they paid for it. I find it kinda funny how everyone on here slags guys that pay for training and operators that pay shitte, fly over loaded & push Wx. then turn around and defend these guys when something goes wrong and bash TC for shutting slime bag operators down. What is really sad is these guys lost their lives and nobody seems to have learned a dam thing from it.

AHHH F@#$ it you guys just keep buying those PPC's Flying for free in poorly maintained aircraft, over gross, in shitte Wx telling yourself your a profesional because you got a couple of bars on your shoulders & its all worth it because you'll be at AC soon.

Dude, you're a laugh.

You're assuming these poor SOBs paid for their PPCs, you're assuming they flew over gross, you're assuming they pushed the weather, you're assuming they held the attitude about the bars'n'stars that you describe.

I'll cede that maybe you know stuff that I don't about their particular situation.

I'll say, though, that maybe there is something to be learned from a Professional Pilot stand-point:

Know your Emergency Drills stone cold.

There's no guarantee that doing the drill will save your life; if nothing else it should greatly increase your chance of survival.

The onus is on us, as the pilot(s), to know our s**t. If you don't know your s**t then you don't have the right to call yourself Professional.

Professionalism is an attitude, not a title to be handed out like a kleenex.

http://professionalthinker.com

[Dog]

I've decided to make this my crusade. Deal with it.

I wish I was as good a pilot as you think you are. Do yo seriously believe that you would have done any better than the crew in the MU-2 that night? Pretty fuckin' arrogant of you to sit at you computer and assume that if you were driving everything would have been just fine.

You have never crashed a sim after a V1 cut? Those guys didn't have the benefit of batting practice in a sim to get it right. If you really think that you are so much better you should get out of flying. You are a screaming invulnerability complex.

[5400AirportRdSouth]

You are a screaming invulnerability complex.

Really?

Damn, I had it all wrong, I thought he was a pretty good source of info, and one of the more tactful posters on here.

I guess I had that all backwards, my bad.

[xsbank]

Thanks for the support, 5400.

I guess I just don't want to see another pilot go to his grave without at least doing the emergency items on the checklist. I suppose if he does them all and still thunders in, he should be annoyed. Not doing them because you don't know them, haven't practised them since 1992, or just forgot them seems, oh, I dunno, just plain feckless.

Sometimes, even a pilot as talented as Dog confronts some situation so awful that his superior skill isn't enough to overcome his lack of preparation or unwillingness to accept that somebody before him has determined that there might be a higher chance of surviving a catastrophic if the emergency procedures are done as appropriate instead of trying to re-invent new ones on the spot.

Sometimes you just bite it when you're time is up. Too bad there isn't time enough to write a note to explain why you didn't try harder.

[square]

Another thing that could save your neck is keeping a copy of the emergencies on the sun visor in front of you or some such convenient place, digging through that document pouch wouldn't be very easy under those circumstances.

[Coast-dog]

Thanks for the support, 5400.
Sometimes, even a pilot as talented as Dog confronts some situation so awful that his superior skill isn't enough to overcome his lack of preparation or unwillingness to accept that somebody before him has determined that there might be a higher chance of surviving a catastrophic if the emergency procedures are done as appropriate instead of trying to re-invent new ones on the spot.

Sometimes you just bite it when you're time is up. Too bad there isn't time enough to write a note to explain why you didn't try harder.

Not sure if you meant that as an honest compliment or a sarcastic jab; I'll take the former, thanks.

You make a good case in point with your posts and I wish you luck on your personal crusade.

Never at any time have I stated I possess skills superior to those of my fellow pilots, nor had I intended to convey the same. I'm grossly guilty of armchair quarter-backing, and I'm not going to apologize for doing so because I have no intention of stopping (I don't think you have any intention of stopping either )

[altiplano]

Your attitude that it's somehow funny to trash on a couple of dead guys sucks.

[Coast-dog]

Oooooo-kaaaaaay...not sure why I'm getting my pee-pee slapped for trying to stick up for the dead guys - I happen to work with a friend of theirs - I'll just leave ya'll to your little 'session' and continue enjoying the Southern Ontario sunshine.

out.

[altiplano]

Coast-dog.

Not directed at you man... I'm agreeing with you.

My comments are for off the horn...

[Over the Horn]

Over the Horn wrote:
I guess that training / PPC wasn't worth the money they paid for it

If these guy's didn't pay for their PPC's and flew for money then I guess I'll eat crow on that statement ( I was assuming that the Victoria operator had the same pay structure as the one in Van)

I find it kinda funny how everyone on here slags guys that pay for training and operators that pay shitte, fly over loaded & push Wx. then turn around and defend these guys when something goes wrong and bash TC for shutting slime bag operators down.

This was a general statement about the industry and alot of posters on AvCanada

What is really sad is these guys lost their lives and nobody seems to have learned a dam thing from it.

This one I'll stand by!

No more Alchohol induced posting for me, my appologies to anyone I've offended