"Full Load" Checkout

[Freddy_Francis]

To anyone paying attention i've been checking out across the land what people are renting out for 172's, pipers and so forth. I also like to see other school's layouts for their training and what not. Heres a question and if im way out in left field excuse me....but what is this so called "Full Load" checkout? I've seen this on a few websites saying if you want to carry pax in the aircraft they want you to have a fully loaded checkout in the plane. Is this a common? I can understand a mountain check but this kinda surprised me. Anyways if its normal just wanted to know...

Thanks!

[Tim]

Sounds like a bullsh.t excuse to scam more money out of people. It's not like you could do any airwork other than a steep turn, and in the event of an engine failure the plane being at 2300lbs versus 2000 isn't gonna make a much of a difference. Does a 600' takeoff roll require more training to complete than a 500' one? Flying empty on a hot summer day is the same (or worse) than flying at gross on a cold winter day anyways. I've had memberships or done training at 5 flight schools/clubs and never heard of this one. I wonder if anyone working at those schools will have an actual legit reason for it.

[Big Pistons Forever]

When checking out newbies for their first flight in a C172 I used to simulate a full load high altitude departure by getting them to takeoff at a reduced throttle setting. I never bothered with this exercise if the person being checkout allready had some expereince in the C172 or similar. Sounds like a money grab to me.

[Hedley]

Ah, the irony of having the most rigorous checkouts
on the easiest airplane to fly that there is

And when you find a truly challenging aircraft, there
is never anyone around who can check you out in it

[iflyforpie]

We don't have a full load checkout here, but taking off in a 172 max gross on a hot day with no wind can be scary at my field.

[small penguin]

The usual checkout here is pretty simple. If you've got any 172 time already, then.. meet instructor, taxi plane to runway, take off, do a few circuits, land, thats it. Another school nearby I hear requires a 3 hour checkout.. pretty much a flight test, for all new members regardless of previous experience (on type or otherwise).

[KAG]

A good instructor should be able to check you out in under 45 mins. A few smash and goes, and few upper air excersises, and a forced. I have been told 5 hours by some YYC schools when I wanted to rent a plane for a few hours. I thought that was funny.

[Cat Driver]

When I had my school check outs were done based on the individual and their background, it does not take long to figure out if a pilot is safe.

New low timers tended to control speed while taxing with brakes regardless of the power setting at the moment, then it was on to the runway and smash the throttle full in at the speed of light, once airborne the climb was like a roller coaster chasing the airspeed indicator.

I never could figure out how they passed a PPL flight test.

The higher time pilots generally did not have those habits.

[Freddy_Francis]

Yup....thought so, I called bullshit on it when my friend was told he'd have to do the check out after doing all his training on the 152...ok fine...different airplane (technically) different check ride. He was then told he'd have to do 2 checkouts if he wanted to bring his friends/family...I started laughing told him not to spend a dime there and hit the road to somewhere else.


I wonder if the fuel surcharge is extra aswell for having a heavier gross weight aswell?

[iflyforpie]

A good instructor should be able to check you out in under 45 mins. A ferw smash and goes, and few upper air excersises, and a forced. I have been told 5 hours by some YYC schools when I wanted to rent a plane for a few hours. I thought that was funny.

Yup,

A checkout should be like a nice dress; short enough to be interesting, but long enough to cover everything. Come out to Invermere if you want to rent a nice 172 without doing your PPL again.

[200hr Wonder]

Shortest checkout I ever gave: 0.2 Total Time...

Buddy of mine with about 1500hrs on a 172 and 4000TT, made him do two landings to make sure he was not approaching at King Air speeds and flaring at King Air altitudes

[AntiNakedMan]

I did a one circuit check out in my 172 this past winter....... but had to sit on the taxiway forever it was soooo busy. plus the controller kept calling the wrong a/c registration with instructions... too busy to look through his binoculars.

When checking out newbies for their first flight in a C172 I used to simulate a full load high altitude departure by getting them to takeoff at a reduced throttle setting.

I'm not sure about the engine in a 172, but I imagine it's like any other plane i've flown; taking off with a reduced throttle setting will not allow as much fuel flow into the cylinders, therefore not allowing for proper cooling on takeoff. Any thoughts?

[Doc]

"Taking off with a reduced power setting...." You HAVE to be shitting me? And you started a thread about Cat's posts?? Give your bloody head a shake. Get some dual!

[2R]

Why not ride the brakes to simulate high altitudes ????

or full flaps or the best one i ever saw was a guy fly a circuit with a bucket of concrete tied to the tail .One of those quick walk around guys

[Liquid Charlie]

"Taking off with a reduced power setting....

Damn - Carl still lives

[Doc]

Did you work for Carl? I worked for Carl.

He'd have us use reduced power for take off at places like STL!

[Cat Driver]

Well fu.k me there is C-GDIK that was the last airplane I flew in Kanada before I finally left and restarted my career overseas in 1996.

My last time in that machine was checking Les Maike ( Duke Elegant ) out in it.....old Les was a great stick and one of my best friends and I often think about all the good times we had.

[denlou]

Our school has a full load checkout if you want to go into short and/or soft fields.

[Doc]

Then you school sucks money from customers.

[bob sacamano]

If you don't like it, then go somewhere else. It's their plane, and they can have any type of check-out they like.

Have a good laugh, and head out.

That being said, back in my instructing days, some checkouts were 1 hour, some were 15 minutes. It depended on the vibe I got from the individual.

As far as that full load checkout. Never done one, nor had anyone else at my flight school.

[Cat Driver]

By full load do they mean the maximum amount the airplane will fly with, for instance lets say 3500 pounds for a Cessna 172?

And the more weight you can get it airborne with the better pilot you are?

[Ogee]

Why not ride the brakes to simulate high altitudes ????

or full flaps or the best one i ever saw was a guy fly a circuit with a bucket of concrete tied to the tail .One of those quick walk around guys

Ok, I call bullshit. A bucket of concrete tied to the tail in the circuit? I don't think so. A bucket of concrete to be of any use as a tiedown would weigh about 80 pounds at least and at an arm of what...15 feet. No that ain't going to fly and it ain't going to be doing any circuits.

Now, hand on heart, I do remember taxiing out from the South Terminal years ago in an Aztec and hearing some guy in a Kingair say, "You might want to advise that Aztec taxiing out that he has a pail of concrete still attached to the tail". Yes, I am mortified.

As to full load checkouts, I'd suggest that may have come from an unfortunate Regency accident on a rental 172 a few years back at Boundary Bay. I do think they have their place and I have requested them myself for multi training in a commercial environment and have mandated them as Chief Pilot, not for the whole training, but for at least one flight in which engine out was done. I have the view that doing single engine drills with two guys in a Navajo may not prepare the average guy for a real engine out in a fully loaded airplane.

Sandbags, properly secured, are the best. I don't recommend loading up the buddies for single engine work.

[Big Pistons Forever]

"Taking off with a reduced power setting...." You HAVE to be shitting me? And you started a thread about Cat's posts?? Give your bloody head a shake. Get some dual!

I am a bit surprised at the strong reaction to what seems to me a pretty simple little exercise.

Simply set enough power so the airplane will take off and climb at about 250 FPM. This will do several things.

1) It is one thing to go to the POH and do a calculation and find out the airplane will only climb at such a low rate ,quite another to expereince it first hand. This is a real issue for student who learned at a near sea level airport and have never experienced hot and high performance challenged airplanes

2) It is a great demonstration of the increase in ground roll, what a difference keeping the ball in the middle makes in the climb rate as well as the importance of holding VY accurately

I have never experienced engine cooling issues and in any case you only have to do the exercise once to about 1500 AAE to make the point. I also do it off a long runway so that we are not too low outside of the aerodrome boundary. My feeling is that it is better for new pilots to first expererience the hot and high performance penalty in a controlled environment rather than for real with a full airplane and a hot and high airport with rising ground off the end of the runway.

Anybody got any other ideas for preparing new pilots for this flight conditions ?

[Cat Driver]

I saw a Cherokee take off and fly around for a landing with a pail of concrete tied to each wing...looked real neat.

[Liquid Charlie]

There was a guy many years ago in Sioux Lookout (actually Allen Water)- took off with a indian tied to his 180 -- guy got his foot tangled in the tail rope when he was pulling on it to break her loose. Len got air born with him and landed straight ahead -- he had no idea the guy was there until the airplane wanted to pitch straight up -- all survived --

Haha Cat -- trip down memory lane -- I worked for Carl for 2 weeks -- when I quit he told me I would never make it as a pilot -- I told him he reminded me too much of Orville