Morgentaler Get the Order of Canada??? WTF??

[niss]

To say to fathers out there that their opinion is irrelevant because it's not their body is bullshit. It shows another reason the feminist movement has gone far beyond equality. To tell fathers they are nothing but sperm donors is obscene. The worst part is when you see Fathers accepting this bullshit. Any man who accepts that argument is not a man.

+1

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

+2

[ottawa,kan]

HEY SULAKO....you might run that timeline of becoming a human being by your wife/girlfriend ( I can't remember whether you put on the bear suit yet). My three year old sure couldn't deal any cards, but she sure SEEMED human. I guess as long as you both agree though, it's none of my business. Hell some religious freak couple just killed their 10 year old because they didn't believe in insulin injections for diabetes. I guess that was okay too??? Just another brand of choice, that was.

[CID]

I have had no respect for the order of Canada since this idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ahenakew

The Governor General revoked David Ahenakew's membership in the Order of Canada on July 11, 2005.

If we run down the list of recipients, I'm sure you'll never get complete buy-in from Canadians or the seemingly endless bunch of special interest groups. If you use the argument that he broke the law, it can easily be countered by the fact that many of our historical heros broke the law. Of course in this case Morgentaler accepted the consequences unlike those who knowingly break the law and call foul when they are caught.

Do you think we should think less of Nelson Mandella for his long jail stint?

All this hype over Morgentaler's Order of Canada nod, is doing exactly what Morgentaler has been doing for decades. It's bringing the subject to the forefront and making people think about it and discuss it.

Of course some will still chose to bury their heads in the sand and try to convince themselves that if not for Morgentaler and his ilk, there would be no abortions. The study of human nature tells us otherwise.

This appointment also removes focus from another questionable appointment: Buzz Hargrove. Why don't we just add Jimmy Hoffa?

But I might mention that your "parent" crack is
a real insult to anyone that has ever adopted a child.

And your "sperm donor" crack? Your comments here don't follow what we like to call "conventional logic". Almost as bad as xsbank's pathetic attempt to ridicule me. But I digress.

[Hedley]

Your comments here don't follow what we like to call "conventional logic".

I know, you have great difficulty comprehending what I
say. I will try to use smaller words and shorter sentences
in the future, to try to help you in the future.

[xsbank]

Hey CID, you do that all by yourself.

Sometimes I can't help myself and I have to point out a CID 'event' to the multitudes of 'guests' on this site but I rarely attain the levels that you yourself achieve.

Although, your last post wasn't bad - could you ensure that it is your last post?

[CID]

xsbank,

Is it dark in there? All the way up Hedley's ass?

[xsbank]

There you go, another milestone! Well done!

[2R]

So who says that the Nazies did not win the War ?
You would have thought that any survivor of Auswitz and Dachau .Any survivor who was exposed to the Nazi Eugenics system of death .Where humans were sorted out by their worth ,Race ,Religion ,Sexual orientation ,Ethnicity,Physical abilities ,Mental health.That any such survivor would have more respect for humanity .Any human after seeing humans sorted like cattle and then choices made about who should live and who should die based on a callious use of perverse science.Not him .He made a business in private clinics of systematically killing humans of because his customers lack of faith give them false reasoning that the unborn have no value .
The reasons he gives for doing the abortions are the same reasons the Nazies gave for their eugenics programme .They are poor and have no value .The children of the poor grow into crime when there are no jobs for them etc.....

What offends me more about this man is his lack of hope for children and the future .It offends me more than his rationilization for his business clinics.

Perhaps he has never healed from the trauma of the death camps .Is that why his heart become so hardened, so hard to think that the children of the poor have no value to society.

George Carlin would have enjoyed this cosmic joke that a survovor of the death camps sets up clinics all over Canada and does what the Nazies would have done if they had off won the war.Kill off those pathetic poor babies .Eugenics at its finest .All the efficiency of a Nazi killing machine available in corner clinics all over Canada.
What next Kill off all the old people who can no longer work He is about the age that the Nazies would have stuffed him in a gas chamber
Where is DR.Kovorkian when you need him

[grimey]

George Carlin would have enjoyed this cosmic joke that a survovor of the death camps sets up clinics all over Canada and does what the Nazies would have done if they had off won the war.Kill off those pathetic poor babies

Yea, obviously...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXvDXVhqfU

[CID]

2R, IMHO comparing Nazi death camps to abortion in general is pretty extreme. I think most Canadians understand the difference.

[AntiNakedMan]

Nazi Eugenics system of death

Don't forget the Alberta Eugenics program - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Eugenics_Board

[John Bull]

2R, IMHO comparing Nazi death camps to abortion in general is pretty extreme. I think most Canadians understand the difference.

Didn't you just write comparing Morgentaler with Mandela?
Funny how you can analyze someone else's poor comparison but not your own.

[JakeYYZ]

I don’t hang around with radical leftists. But most of my friends and family are soft-liberal supporters of “choice”. And every single one will admit that they do not “like” abortion, nor would they ever want a loved one to resort to it. Yet Morgentaler and his ilk not only like abortion, they profit from it, they promote it, they cover up the associated health risks and effects on future fertility, and they elevate its practice to a virtue. It takes a diseased mind to press a philosophy of death on a society, and those diseased minds have now been validated by our Governor-General and her panel of warped elites.
Morgentaler being named to the Order of Canada is solely about politics & ideology, about using Canada's highest award as a political club to push a left wing agenda, which is very, very sad.

[Dust Devil]

I think this thread proves why this guy should not have been awarded the Order of Canada. Your top honor should go to people who 99.99999% of the country would say good job that guy deserves it. As much as I hate the saying it should be a "no brainer". This is obviously a controversial issue which is a long way from being settled if it even ever will. Inventing a cure for cancer should get the award. An individual who risks their life unselfishly to save others should get the award. Stuff like that. The award is obviously handed out to way too many people and that cheapens it. To discuss this should not be about if abortion is right or wrong. The debate should be is it right to give the award based on an unsettled divisive issue.

[. ._]

I think it's cool for Morgentaler to get the Order of Canada. He made it a lot easier for guys to dodge a bullet.

-istp

[2R]

2R, IMHO comparing Nazi death camps to abortion in general is pretty extreme. I think most Canadians understand the difference.

Not really extreme at all .The numbers of humans exterminated must be getting up there in numbers .

But do yet get the Joke ??? A little nazi inspired death camp in your neighbourhood brought to you by a former resident of the death camps .If you do not laugh you might cry,so you might as well laugh about it

Cannot wait for the Dr.Kevorkian inspired death terminlals .I do hope they do not put them next to the bus terminals as some old senile people might wander in there before their time is up by mistake and get killed by a kindly old doctor ending their existence .Thus further reducing the travels needs of the general population.Less travel less pilots needed
So fewer people mean less flying for pilots .Less flying means less need for pilots so we could under the new regime be off to the terminal sooner rather than later .

Was i the only one who heard Moergentaler on the CBC refer to the abortions as " Children that who would have grown into crime "
He called them children .So lets not deny them that they would have been children .If the guy killing them calls them Children .We can drop the facade that they are souless clumps of cells.

[Siddley Hawker]

Is it just me, or has anybody else noticed that none - I think - of the females on this board has posted anything on this thread?

[CID]

Didn't you just write comparing Morgentaler with Mandela?
Funny how you can analyze someone else's poor comparison but not your own.

Context is everything when you make "comparisons" John Bull. I didn't actually compare Morgentaler with Mandela. I was calling attention to the fact that some of our modern heros did time in prison.

[AUGER9]

Until a man has to endure 9 months of pregnancy and labour at the end of it, and everything else that goes with it, im on the "it's her body, her decision" train.

Im +1 with icebound.

[Sheila]

But you would probably never get an abortion! And when you tell the woman "You leave it up to her", you are encouraging her and so you are guilty too.

1973 Private Letter to Trudeau Suggests Abortion Crusader Morgentaler Used Blackmail

Exclusive Commentary to LifeSiteNews.com by Terry O'Neill

May 8, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Pro-lifers have long known that the Canadian political elite of the 1960s and 1970s was strongly in favour of abortion, at least in principle. After all, it was a Liberal government-supported by a liberal media-that first legalized the practice in 1969. But Canadians now know that those elites supported abortion, not just in principle, but in practice, as well. And our source for this information is none other than Canada's arch-abortionist, Henry Morgentaler himself.

As revealed in this week's Maclean's, Henry Morgentaler wrote a letter to then-Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau in 1973 in which the abortionist disclosed that friends, family and lovers of many leading Canadian politicians were taking advantage of his then-illegal services. The letter is important, not only because it paints a fuller picture of the turbulent times, but also because it reveals important features of Morgentaler's character - not an inconsequential consideration given the annual attempt to have him awarded with the Order in Canada.

On this latter topic, it seems to me that last February's futile agitation for inclusion of Morgentaler into the Order of Canada represented yet another frantic grasp for legitimacy and respectability by the 84-year-old abortionist and his followers. The most telling moment in the campaign came when Cathie Colombo, a woman described as a long-time assistant to Morgentaler, told a reporter that to deny her boss the honour "is blasphemy" and "a national embarrassment."

One can almost see the beads of sweat forming on the woman's brow as she mouthed these words, which at once reveal both a lack of familiarity with reason (unless, of course, one considers Morgentaler to be a sacred figure) and an unbecoming desperation. But one should not be surprised at the zealousness and self-righteousness displayed by Colombo; after all, she apparently learned from the best, Morgentaler himself. Indeed, the Montreal abortion-rights crusader has long appealed more to passion than reason in his quest to turn Canada into a free-fire zone against the unborn.

Abortions were illegal in Canada until the Trudeau government passed the 1969 law allowing the procedure to take place, but only if a three-doctor hospital committee determined the pregnancy would endanger the mother's life or health. Yet, even this broad liberalization was not enough for Morgentaler, who defied the law by operating a private abortion clinic in Montreal, a dramatic move that led to a series of arrests, charges and trials, while also allowing him to wrap himself in the garb of a martyr-a misunderstood and persecuted reformer whose cries for justice were not being heeded.

Even after the Supreme Court of Canada struck down the country's abortion law in 1988, leaving the procedure completely unlimited by law, Morgentaler continued crusading for more funding and better access for abortions.

Moreover, as revealed by Maclean's, Morgentaler's penchant for portraying himself as a holier-than-thou victim is evident even in the details of the letter, marked "personal and confidential," that he wrote to Trudeau on August 28, 1973. The missive was discovered by George Egerton, associate professor of history at the University of British Columbia, while he was researching documents in the newly opened Trudeau archives. The letter ended up in my hands because of my long public record of opposition to abortion, and I gave it to Maclean's in order to ensure the document received national coverage in a mainstream publication.

The letter reveals much about Morgentaler, not only because of what he wrote but also because of the impressions left by what he did not write. In other words, there is much to be read between the lines. Not inconsequentially, the letter also raises questions about the extent to which the Liberal cabinets of the day in both Ottawa and Quebec City had a vested interest in the abortion debate.

Morgentaler begins the two-page, typed, single-spaced letter with the salutation, "Dear Pierre," after which he informs the prime minister that, "On August 15 the Montreal police raided my clinic; they also had a search warrant for my home and found the correspondence with you which I have kept confidential according to your expressed wishes."

He continues, "My reason for writing you is to advise you that this correspondence is now in the hands of someone in the Montreal police department . . . I do not think there is anything embarrassing to you in it since we mainly discussed changing the laws on abortion, but thought I should advise you of what had occurred in the event this correspondence might be misused by them."

His putative reason for writing the letter now dispensed with, Morgentaler then devotes the rest of the document to getting something "off my chest," that being his contention that he is being persecuted, that he does not receive the official support he deserves, and that the lack of such support is hypocritical.

"I am not a masochist by nature and do not relish the prospect of spending additional time in Canadian prisons after 5 years lost in German ghettos and concentration camps," he tells Trudeau, "so I am going to fight this fight until the bitter end - firmly convinced not only of the moral rightness of my course of action, but also of the hypocrisy, injustice and, indeed, unconstitutionality of the laws under which I am being tried. Please do not misunderstand. I am neither complaining nor looking to you for help. . ."

Maybe so, but Morgentaler then drops a bombshell. "Do I have to convince you really of the hypocrisy of the present laws?" he asks. "Do you know that in my clinic, I have helped wives, daughters, mistresses and relatives of members of the Federal and Provincial Cabinet, including some relatives of yours?

"Do you know that Dr. Leon Trudeau, a cousin of yours, has been referring cases to me? Do you know that Quebec ministers who officially came out against abortion, have had relatives treated in my clinic and helped there? Do you know that a relative of [Quebec health minister] Claude Castonguay (who refused to recognize my clinic as requested by me) has had an abortion in my clinic just the day before I was raided? If she knew she would be safe there, does he not know that all patients would be? Or does he not want to know?"

Morgentaler continues with an unsympathetic examination of the difficult political situation in which he believes Trudeau has found himself over the abortion issue. "Would it be wrong to conclude that the rights of women have been sacrificed on the altar of political expediency?" he writes. "And do you not carry moral responsibility for the suffering of women resulting from lack of access to safe abortions by your decision not to amend this law?"

He concludes, "I hope you will forgive me the expression of frank and sometimes critical opinions. I do it, I assure you, without any malice whatsoever. I also want to assure you that if I refer to prominent people having had safe abortions in my clinic it is not with the intention of embarrassing anyone but only to bring into stronger focus the hypocrisy and absurdity of the law.

"I must say I do not really know what this letter to you can accomplish except, perhaps, that if you read it as a message from one man of goodwill to another, written honestly, though with some passion, possibility you will give it some thought."

We do not know the nature of Trudeau's immediate response to this letter, but we do know his long-term response: he did nothing to further liberalize the abortion law. It was the Supreme Court of Canada which, in a case involving Morgentaler himself, ruled in 1988 that the 1969 law was in breach of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It is perhaps a testament to the strength of Trudeau's character that he refused to budge from his position, even though Morgentaler's letter could be viewed as a none-too-thinly-veiled threat that, failing to amend the law, names would be named and alleged hypocrites exposed.

Could it really be true that Morgentaler did not appreciate the impact his revelations would have on Trudeau? Could it really be that, while on one hand declaring that he sent his letter without malice and had no intention of embarrassing anyone, that, on the other hand, he did not recognize that his protestations of purity existed in the long shadow of an implied threat of exposure? Blackmail is certainly too strong of a word to use here, but there is, nevertheless, something sinister about the dark facts Morgentaler marshaled in his extraordinary letter.

Of course, it may well be true that Morgentaler's zealousness and self-righteousness prevented him from appreciating the menacing nature of his letter. In other words, his view of himself as a martyr could have distorted his judgment. We are left, then, with a choice about Morgentaler, either option of which does not flatter him: either he was a sinister plotter or he was a foolish zealot.

One imagines that both pro-choicers and pro-lifers will have much to say about this letter: pro-choicers that it shows what a resolute man Morgentaler was (and is); pro-lifers that the hypocrisy it reveals helps explain how abortion became legal in the first place, and how it is able to continue today, utterly unfettered by regulation.

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

Until a man has to endure 9 months of pregnancy and labour at the end of it, and everything else that goes with it, im on the "it's her body, her decision" train.

Im +1 with icebound.

On behalf of the hundreds of thousands of fathers in this country who have been fu*ked over by a family court system that is completely female biased and has relegated men to the position of sperm donors and support payers: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ARSEHOLE.

It's hard enough to get custody or even visitation rights in this country without some dink who thinks his responsibility is enshrined in the 4Fs to open his yap.

[Doc]

Truer words have seldom been spoken. Good point, tellyourkidstogetareajob.

[spartacus]

Do many men here feel strongly about brands of tampons?

*snort*

exactly.

[Sulako]

How about mandatory vasectomies for men who don't pay child support? I mean, let's suppose we ban abortion, giving the gov't the official right to control people's bodies. Next thing you know, we all have RFID tags inserted at birth, complete with kill switches and behaviour modifying electric shocks.

Just puttin' it out there...

Anyway, if you don't want an abortion then never have one. But for those that do make that choice, free access to abortion is an essential service.