Dockhand

[DHC3Rwannafly]

I apologize if this has been posted already, I tried searching but came up with nothing. My question is, Can you get a dockhand job (leading to flying down the line) with just 200hrs and a float rating or do you need 250hrsTT? Just curious, thanks for your input
DH3

[Idriveplane]

200 hrs and a float rating is all u need. If you have good hands and feet and work hard, an employer will notice that and you'll be off to the races.

[mathias_now]

Should a fresh 200hr pilot get a multi-ifr if he is going to pursue a float position or would a 50hr bush program suffice and then once enough time is built in the bush, get it?

Thanks in advance for your input.

MN

[farm_boy252]

If you have 200 hrs and a float rating, I would not spend any more money on either the 50 float coarse or the Multi-IFR. If you wanna fly floats the chances are you will have to start out working on the dock, weather you have a 50 float coarse or not. If you ask me the 50hrs float program is a waste of money (most are upwards of 30,000). Sure you will learn a lot more about flying floats, but most employers would rather get a frest guy and teach them the way THEY want it done.

Once you get flying on floats for a few seasons and get some hrs, then I would think about the Multi-IFR, if thats what you want to do in the future.

[nofixedaddress]

30 000????? What farm are you from, maybe your getting your numbers mixed up with what a few 100 acres of barley, wheat or canoloa are going to yield this season.

I did a 50 hour course for less than 10K on a 172 and now fly for a company offering a 50 hour program for around 13 000 on a 172. I agree with holding of on the IFR, no point in doing it if your not going to use it. While your working towards your CPL around the 120-140 total time mark, do a 50 hour course if you want, build your CPL time and get it on floats. Kill a few birds with one stone. Than you'll finish up with close to 180 hours or so, do 10 hours of dual bang off the flight test and top of your PIC hours on the float plane if you can. 200 hours, employable as a dock hand, or if you find a company like the one I work for you'll be giving the next guy his rating and doing 50 hour courses. In most cases you will be grade A meat to go work a dock. It may cost a few thousand more to do the 50 hours on floats, but its a hell of a lot more fun than just building your time on wheels. IMO.

PM if you want to know more.

Cheers

[1000 HP]

Jeesus, who flies buck 72's in the bush?? Why not put the money into a good used floatplane (even a 172 on floats I suppose), and fly the bag off it for a couple of months, then resell it? That way, you have the 50 hours Pic time most insurance companies are requiring these days, and you can hopefully avoid just working the dock. You can burn a lot of gas and make a few payments before you hit the $13,000 mark. My buddy has a 172 on floats for sale for $55,000. He'd probably even ride along with you until the insurance will cover you.

[brokenwing]

it'd be hard to sell in todays market, unless you planned on holding on to it for a few years

[farm_boy252]

I jumped the gun on the prices...I shopped around a bit and a 50 hr bush pilot course can run you from 13000 to 17,000 if you want to do it on a 172 or 180. If you want to do your whole commercial on a float plane and to the 50 bush course to build hrs. it will run you over 30,000 easy.

Everything about learning to fly is expensive, so i still say just go for the 7 hr float rating. If you can afford it do the 50 hrs on floats for sure.....or if your looking to time build and not spend so much money I highly suggest getting as many hrs as you can on a tail dragger. there are a few schools around that have citabria's around that will rent them out at the same price, or even a few dollars less, than a 172.

If you do the 50hrs on floats I suggest Air Hart. Its a great place and one of the few schools that let you actually solo in a float plane...many give you pic time but call it "supervised" and have an instructor ride with.

[Northern Skies]

Jeesus, who flies buck 72's in the bush??

In gogama they run 2pax+gear (tackle, lunches, and a 3hp) on day flights with one. It's no beaver or otter, but it does earn its keep very well. Nice way for a newb to do a 400 hour season.

[Northern Skies]

On the original topic... If you have your CPL and float rating, don't waste your money on the extra training. especially the multi-ifr, you're not filing IFR in a floatplane! You're going to need that cash. Those courses are great training to be included in the 200 hours, but if you have the ticket it's time to get out there and start working.

Take what flying schools tell you with a grain of salt, remember that they're trying to sell flight training and are often very detached from the industry. And don't buy into the "insurance requirement" story, it's a lie 80% of the time and an easy way for an employer swamped with resumes to say "we're not interested, f-off". I heard some flight schools saying you should do their course to meet insurance mins but the reality is that a minimum will usually involve several hundred hours, some other strange requirement, and/or be at the discretion of the insurer. The way your job hunt usually works is that you sell yourself to the employer and if successful, they won't indicate interest other than to ask for certain specifics for an insurance questionnaire of some sort. They'll then try to sell you to the insurer and your potential job rests in their hands. Any combination of total time, float time, command time, time on type or similar or at least something relatively complex, will help you out. Lacking in one requirement is sometimes overlooked if you have an abundance of another, that's how I got into floats. Someone who has actually dealt with an insurance company or even done some hiring can give you more details if you need them, I'm just a throttle jockey and that's all I know.

Considering the relative ease of finding a job these days, I would advise that you save your cash and just go for a job. You'll get one if you have your head screwed on. Most of the people you're applying to don't give a damn about any expensive fluff on your resume. On the same note, I would recommend the 50-hour float courses to those who are working on their licence as you're going to spend lots of money anyway and it sure beats flying a 150 around in circles. Mine cost $8900 for a 172 in 2004.

It's your money, follow your own judgement.

Good luck!

[brokenwing]

If you have a seaplane rating. Our bush course will cost you about 2200 tax incl, if not the seaplane rating will cost you an extra 1500 tax incl on top of that. Then after the bush course you can rent solo @ 180.00 an hour in a 172, plus you'll see and be around actual 703 operations, not to mention instructors that have actual bush experience. I'm with northernskies, I'd do the float stuff while you're working towards the commercial, it just makes financial sense.

[bartonfly88]

Awesome, a very informative thread!! I'm in the same boat, 200 hrs and a float rating looking for work.

[polar one]

I am not a big fan of the "bush courses". Most of the graduates I came across really got very little from them other than logbook enteries and a somewhat false belief they knew more than they did.

Talk to an employer. Tell them you want to be a pilot. If they are good about it, you will learn the hard working side on the dock and they will do the check ride and then let you fly some freight until you have time. It is really not about hours.
It is about maturity and decision making ability. hard work ethics, and honesty. Once you get on line with most bush operators you will get a 100 hours in the first month or so and be off to the races.

I agree that the IF rating is not required.

Here is a tip from an old CP. when they cut you loose dont go for little joy rides, fly low. etc..you are being paid to do a job, not have someone provide you a plane to play in. Make it as boring as you can for your pax...most of them are not in the plane with you because they like flying..quite the opposite...and few will ever say no to a "hey watch this', though they will complain to the company when they get back.

Good luck to all you starting out. Dont get discouraged ...remember we all started out with the same amount of experience you have.

[brokenwing]

I agree with polar one, (other than the need for 50 hours before carrying passengers), but its true, a float rating and a strong work ethic goes much further than a 50 hr bush course daddy bought you.

[Cat Driver]

It is a good thing that I read these forums as it educates me about what one should do and not do during the learning process.

A few years ago I was going to build a Cub on floats and offer training for new pilots trying to get their first bush flying job.

Seems that I have saved myself a lot of grief as had I actually done that it would have been a waste of my time because the bush operators would not have accepted my training because it would be worthless.

That is what I love about aviation, one learns new stuff every day.

[brokenwing]

.,
I'm just saying that 7 hours and a good work ethic, will get you quality dual time in a 185 or beaver (not lin the logs, but valuable), compared to a " 50 hr bush pilot program " at some schools that teach you the same take off and landing in the same spot, for 50 hrs. Quality time spent with a quality pilot, is hard to come by. If the fixed wing industry followed some of the helo industries hiring tendancies, good instructors would be worth alot more, and you would be highly sought after in canada. Too bad everything is ass backwards.

[Cat Driver]

Brokenwing, my comment was meant to be sarcasm brought on by frustration with the flight training industry.

Here is something I posted a few days ago that explains how I feel.

My first passion in aviation is the mechanical end of the business I am first a mechanic and second a pilot, and my first love in flying is teaching flying.

When I first started posting on Avcanada I had hoped to be able to share my background in teaching the skills of flying and thinking like an aviator, however as time passed I found my ideas on flight training do not sit to well with the training industry of today and I may as well be an alien from outer space when it comes to discussing flight training with a lot of todays flight instructors....so I no longer bother to waste my time with them.

But if I were in charge of flight training in Canada there would be big changes made...including re training of a lot of flight instructors if they wanted to continue to teach.


Flight instructors would be at the top end of the pay scale in aviation once they progressed to true class one instructors. And it would be a sought after profession where pilots could live well and be home with the income to afford to raise their families in comfort.


My first change to the industry would be to transfer every TC flight training inspector to the janitorial department so they could stay off welfare rather than be fired and have to look for a job in the real world. The present head of flight training would be an exception, he would not qualify for that position so he would be given the job of sitting in an office with nothing to do so he could not @#$! up anything by trying to do something.

What is needed is a total overhaul of how the training industry is regulated, however that will not happen as the drones in TCCA flight training are fat and happy with the status quo.........what else would you expect from idiots?