Air Canada Strike

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:25 pm

"I’m no fan of WJ but I can 100% guarantee this type of behavior would not be tolerated by either their company or fellow employees."

Not to slag WJA but I find that comment ridiculous. Exactly what type of behaviour are you guaranteeing against? No "wildcat" strikes, no private deals between the workers and management or no behaviour that is unethical? Upon what information can you make such bold all-encompasing claims?

WJA is unorganized so technically can't strike. Even an organized withdrawl of work would most likely be preceeded by some form of Unionization anyway as a result of the dissatisfaction that generates the need to withdraw work in the first place - that's kinda why its done - power in numbers from pissed off employees etc.

Are you saying WJA would never enter into local deals with employees? I thought that occured all the time and was part of its success LR wise? Without a collective agreement they are completly free to do whatever they want.

Failing some form of agreement, are you saying WJA employees would never do something unethical? That no one would knowingly allow it? Guess we'll find that out in a couple months when the court case wraps up.

BTW I like WJA, I just find that comment a little too optomistic. Maybe there is something in the koolaid

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:27 pm

double post

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:34 pm

Family Guy

I thought that statement spoke for itself. It’s called self policing or peer approval of the majority. It would appear that the majority of the ramp and the IAM knew about the abuses and yet did nothing about it. That makes them just as guilty as those that committed the actual abuses.

I fail to see the connection between the unethical probably illegal behavior of the WJ management team and the work ethic/attitude of their employees. It was afterall a WJ employee who blew the whistle on WJ management activities.

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:04 pm

"It would appear that the majority of the ramp and the IAM knew about the abuses and yet did nothing about it. That makes them just as guilty as those that committed the actual abuses."

From what I've read and seen, most notably a CBC interview with the IAM Union guy (only one side granted), its pretty hard to categorize what transpired as "abuses" when the company knowingly allows it to occur for around 15 years. You may quote any limited instances of what everyone believes to be "excessive' use of the provision observed by your spouse all day long - those are not in dispute. ACA could and should have dealt with those easily enough.

Based on that correction, are you suggesting that they should have taken some form of mythical high road and not done something that their employer knowingly endorsed and allowed? Believe it or not these so-called "go home early" type arrangements are actually fairly common in Unionized companies - once the required work is done and IF you are not needed, then as a way of saying thanks some employers let their employees go home early yet still get paid. I am sure it is done in private companies as well. The opposite is probably more common in private industry which is actually unfortunate IMHO. I am sure that WJ no doubt has many "perks" that its employees receive that are similar in concept to the "go home early" idea. Should those be refused as well???

I again reiterate that it is pretty hard to get the "truth" out of the media but the picture is starting to solidify. Re-read Wilbur's post and that should help explain it. Something very wrong happened here to cause this. To merely castigate the IAM represented employees all to hell whilest comparing them against this false sense of HOLY WJ "correctness" is frankly pure crap.

As to the "ethics" of WJA in general, granted it would be hypocritical of me to paint every WJ employee as unethical because of the possibility their boss might be. I merely raised that to point out that even the mighty and noble WJ can have flaws. Although I will say that one has to wonder - if the CEO is unethical - how many others in the organization are as well?

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:31 pm

Air Canada Strike Won't Result in Firings
Air Canada Illegal Strike That Stranded Thousands in Toronto Won't Result in Firings

TORONTO Jan 20, 2005 — Air Canada resumed flights and agreed Thursday not to fire any workers being investigated over allegations of "corrupt conduct" ahead of a four hour illegal strike that stranded thousands of passengers at Toronto's Pearson International Airport.

Air Canada flights out of Toronto were grounded Wednesday night after ground crew workers at the country's largest airport walked off the job when the airline began reviewing allegations that ground crew employees punched out time cards for colleagues.

Air Canada said it reached a "fresh start" agreement that ensured no workers will be fired over allegations of "corrupt conduct" by ground crew employees. But it warned anyone caught punching out someone else's time card in the future would be fired.

The 3,400 members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers will not be disciplined after 110 workers walked off the job at 4:20 p.m. EST Wednesday.

In a letter to employees Thursday, Air Canada said it reached a "fresh start" agreement that ensured no workers will be fired over allegations of "corrupt conduct" by ground crew employees. But it warned anyone caught punching out someone else's time card in the future would be fired.

·The strike was resolved about four hours later and international flights were allowed to depart soon afterward. Domestic flights weren't cleared for takeoff until the following morning.

Airline spokeswoman Laura Cooke said some domestic flights were departing late on Thursday, since the airline needed more time to rebook passengers whose flights were canceled the night before.

The company said an investigation revealed some 140 ground crew employees, many of whom help guide planes on runways and alongside terminal gates, "were fraudulently abusing the time and attendance system" by swiping other employees' cards for them.

Employees were not aware of video surveillance, which has been in use since Nov. 30, according to Machinists spokesman Bill Trbovich.

Employees are supposed to call an Air Canada phone number to note the changes to their shifts if they are asked to work through lunch but allowed leave an hour early, for example. The information is then processed in a company database.

But Trbovich said the phone line often did not work, so an employee would get a colleague to punch out a card for them after leaving early so the card wouldn't incorrectly show a missing hour of work they might not get paid for. He said local managers have approved the practice for years.

The strike was the latest black eye for the airline which emerged last fall from a restructuring with much lower debt.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. redistributed

Family Guy

Too bad they should have all been fired..The IAM is as guilty as hell and all the insiders know it..Last night a new version of "How to win friends and influence our "CUSTOMERS" was written courtesy of the IAM. What a bunch of ass holes...

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:27 pm

"He said local managers have approved the practice for years."

While this is mostly speculation on our part anyway, I am at a complete loss to understand your conclusion based on the story you posted and most notably the above quote! ???

Based on what I've read , if there is anybody who needs to be fired it's whatever managers were involved prior to the wildcat. One reason employees will wildcat an issue is because the employer isn't listening to what they are saying but instead going ahead with something punative based on inaccurate info. So they wildcat and are reasonably hopeful that action gets the employer to sit down and actually listen (doesn't always work). That appears to be the case in this instance. That the managers responsible handled this issue in such a manner that it resulted in a wildcat is unacceptable. Given the rough patch ACA employees have just gone through the managers needed to use alot more common sense. There are far easier and effective solutions to fix simple time card issues other than spying. Sort of unrelated to this story but it simply boggles my mind how some companies continue to employ absolute morons as line managers.

Anyway agree to disagree or whatever. I suspect most posters are just relishing bashing some more ACA employees without stopping to think about it.

5x5 · Post by **5x5** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:37 pm

Funny how workers so often think that all managers are morons (a la FamilyGuy) and yet seem to forget that these same managers are mostly ex-workers who had proven themselves and got promoted. Of course, it's never for merit, they were ass-kissers or kin or something. Give your head a shake.

As always, I think both sides are to blame and they both lose as quite a few customers will be theirs no longer - and AC is hardly in a position to face a decrease in their customer base. Keep it up and no one will have to be fired - they'll all be laid off.

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:11 pm

Did I say "ALL" managers...nope don't think so. There are some good ones out there, but they rarely make the news with wildcat strikes.

I wouldn't brand any group but if you recall ACA used to be a federal enterprise. I don't know how many managers from those days are still around but I'd bet its a few. Having spent time in the federal public service I can tell you that your concept of what promotions were based on is a little optomistic: these same managers are mostly ex-workers who had proven themselves and got promoted. Of course, it's never for merit, they were ass-kissers or kin or something. Give your head a shake. " We had a saying "shit floats" and it usually held up.

Regardless, you are correct that there are 2 sides. However everyone seems to jump on the worker right away because they are the visible ones who's actions directly affected them. All I am saying is that everyone should look harder for the "WHY" these workers did what they did.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:27 pm

Why was the least of the questions on the minds of the thousands of people who lost time, money, vacation time and on and on.

The real problem will be loss of customers, the last thing any airline today needs.

Airline travel today is one of the most aggrivating situations that anyone has to endure, to be grounded because of internal problems between managament and workers will only drive more people away.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid...........

Cat

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:09 pm

Nicely said Cat.

This is what pisses me off with Unions. They really don't give a f?%& about customers or the future as a matter of fact.

Cat Driver wrote:Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid...........

Yup!

Out of Control · Post by **Out of Control** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:14 pm

Hey Guido, Why would you make plans when you are in the aviation industry??

FamilyGuy · Post by **FamilyGuy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:46 pm

benwa wrote:Nicely said Cat.

This is what pisses me off with Unions. They really don't give a f?%& about customers or the future as a matter of fact.

Cat Driver wrote:Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid...........
Yup!

Yes very stupid situation - agreed.

What makes you think the "Union" had anything to do with it? Yes they were "unionized" employees, but this was a "wildcat" strike, not an "illegal strike". Basically a moot point but for the record "Wildcat's" are typically not officially sanctioned by the "Union", they are most often rapid local grass roots type job actions that the "Union" proper has no knowledge or control of. FWIW. Sorry for being pedantic on that point.

So let me ask you Benwa at what point do you say enough is enough when you truly believe the company you work for is royally screwing you or your co-workers over? 100+ of your co-workers are about to be wrongfully terminated and you just say "Oh dear we absolutely can't inconvience the customers - oh well". Exactly what future are they suppose to consider? What kind of future do they have if they sit idlly by while the employer does mass firings based on specious and false accusations? Who's next and where does it end? Why would they care about the future of the company when they will be unemployed tomorrow for doing nothing wrong? I am certain they didn't do this just for kicks because you are 100% correct, their future is very much at stake. A scorched earth policy in ACA is suicide right now.

There is a saying that a company gets the Union it deserves. Unions are not totally innocent in this country or not even most likely in this instance, but there is a much larger reason things like this happen and it ALWAYS involves both parties.

Don't you guys ever wonder why some companies never seem to have these types of problems and others always seem to? Gee whiz, what could it be?

60,000 employees bent on self-destruction of their livelihoods or a couple hundred managers who don't know if they are punched, bored or drilled? Hmmm......

DragEraser · Post by **DragEraser** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:02 am

You punch someone else in and they're not there to work it is fraud. Scratching each other's back should get the whole lot of you fired. The investigation was ongoing for several months and now A/C is going to forget about the illegal strike and let them continue working?????

You get rid of that union and you'll save ALOT of cash. I cant stand worstjet but contracting out the ground support is a great idea.

"DoIt" Fire 'em all!

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:27 am

January 20, 2005

IAMAW MEMBERSHIP ILLEGAL WALK-OUT – TORONTO AIRPORT

Yesterday, our Aircraft Services employees at Pearson Airport staged a four-hour illegal walk-out. With our Toronto operations halted, the impact on our customers was significant. Customers on some arriving aircraft were detained onboard for up to a few hours prior to being deplaned, and most domestic and transborder flights arriving and departing Toronto were cancelled for the balance of the day. We are back to a full operation at Toronto this morning.

This illegal job action was in response to an investigation which revealed that some aircraft services employees were fraudulently abusing the time and attendance system by swiping out other employees while others were violating established company policies regarding time and attendance. During the course of the investigation, it was also determined that this fraudulent activity was likely condoned by some of our management personnel. This institutionalized form of corrupt conduct cannot be tolerated. An agreement was reached to resolve the issue with local IAMAW representatives whereby the union and the company agreed that any time transgression in the future will result in immediate termination. This agreement will enable a fresh start, where such behaviour by ANY employee from this point forward is grounds for dismissal. Most importantly, it also allowed us to minimize escalating actions that negatively impact our customers and will improve staffing levels at Toronto resulting in enhanced service levels.

“The action taken by this group of employees to achieve their goals cannot be condoned. Over the past 18 months, we have worked hard at winning back customers and it’s important that we not lose the momentum we’ve built,” said Montie Brewer, President and CEO of Air Canada. “It is unfortunate that many of you, particularly those working the front lines yesterday, were impacted by the actions of this group of fellow employees. Clearly, this activity demonstrates the requirement to evolve the way we deal with each other as employees. Hopefully this event provides us with the opportunity to drive forward the process of change towards an environment based on trust and respect for each other.

“I’d like to thank those of you who worked hard under very difficult circumstances to take care of our customers yesterday – you know first-hand what it takes to maintain the loyalty of our customers and how each and every one of us has to do their part,” said Montie.

phatboy · Post by **phatboy** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:06 am

i'm not really a union guy...however I think this "wildcat" strike was effective, and needed at this time. The unions have given up so much in the last while, it was a good chance to show the company that they all stand together.....you can't fault them for that, shows the company that it really is the employees that make the company..

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:17 am

Sorry it only shows that the “infamous 110” are stupid, stupid, stupid and deserve to be fired. Oh and the vast majority of AC employees are dead set against them..

A330 · Post by **A330** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:36 am

I just love to hear the arguement about justifying this "wildcat" stike, and especially laying blame on the "managers". I can only imagine how many managers this department must go through. Like teachers with totally disfuctional, out of control class. I know one ex-manager personally and these abuses are well known and systemic. How this went on for so long is beyond reason. You cheat the company of out time and productivity and expect to get paid while you sit on your ass at home. This is fraud and the days of "crown" living under the government bank is over. You are easily replaceable and should be thankful for a 50k/yr job with benefits that can be done by someone with a mental handicap, who would likely work harder. You got away with it for years and it's over.

Get back to work you morons!

helinas · Post by **helinas** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:38 am

Lets see now: Thanks for the comments on getting me fired as I am an Air Canada ramp employee. I see Rebel that if you fly as a pilot for a company and they keep making your life miserable you should take it or quit. Okay, lets say I quit and the next guy they hire of the street will get the same treatment, treated like shit. He quits and they hire somebody else and he gets treated like shit because THIS IS THE WAY Air Canada OPERATES. They dont give a flying f#$k about their employees, I know I work there YOU DONT. I am not whining or complaining dont get me wrong and I and so have others felt bad about the people that were inconvenienced but enough is enough. I also agree that the guys that split hours before their shift is wrong but if I have 37 minutes to wait at the punch clock doing nothing because you do nothing but wait what company time are you stealing.
AIR CANADA MANAGERS are making deals with ramp crews that if you stay an extra HOUR and help us out on this flight I (manager) will make sure you get paid for 8 hours and the manager will SWIPE OUT the crew at the punchclock. When you are pushing back an 320 but another 320 is blocking your push you call up the STOC center to find out why isnt that 320 behind us not being marshalled in then you get that same STOC centre telling us (Oh by the way that is your next flight waiting for you but I see you are presently working on another flight) and the temperature outside -20 celsius and this is your 5th flight in your first hour and a half. Air Canada does not give one flying f#@k about their employees and Rebel if you have a couple of hours go out to YYZ and speak to some of these guys and tell them in their face that we all should have been fired.
-no equipment
-no manpower
-no holiday pay
-change shift times and work locations without letting you the employee know
-managers never saying thank you or good job only why did the flight go out 2 minutes late you bastards.

But hey rebel thanks for the comments and your suggestions on how you feel but I dont think you have a clue when it comes to company and workers relations at Air Canada and yes if you do something wrong you should get fires union or no union but when every other base in Canada does not get to swipe out why should we it should be everybody or nobody.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:57 am

Helinas.... take a breath for kryst sakes! ...

Ok... ... are you breathing? Good. Now, you're fired!.

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:04 am

helinas wrote:but if I have 37 minutes to wait at the punch clock doing nothing

There's always something to do, whatever the job, whatever the employer.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:09 am

helinas

Cut the crap I have more time at AC then you can ever hope to have with your attitude. I endured your type attitude for the last thirty odd years if you don’t like AC move on…

grouchy · Post by **grouchy** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:21 am

Seems to me this is peanuts to the millions Milton was paid to run the company into bankruptcy.

Somebody said "shit floats".

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:55 am

Stupid, stupid, stupid, idiots, idiots, but this manner of treating your customer will get results...

...soon there will be no customers.

The Air Canada management has made a big mistake here by condoning illegal activities with no consequences except a further loss of public support and a definite loss of customers.......

Idiots, idiots, ..............grrrrrr

Cat

JakeYYZ · Post by **JakeYYZ** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:56 am

Still, it can't be easy organizing wildcats into a union. Worse than herdin' 'em I expect.

helinas · Post by **helinas** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:21 am

Hey Rebel, I see you know everything and by the way where at AC do your work. To the person that said that there are always things to do at Air Canada why dont you come down to YYZ and well take a tour of the place and see when you have done 8 to 10 flights at -20 or + 30 and you have 30 minutes or so left before you go home well go out there and clean the ramp and sweep the floor, maybe organize all the carts and dollies together. Rebel, I hate the guys and I mean hate the guys that leave 2 or 3 or 4 hours early and that is absolutely bullshit as I stay till the end of my shift maybe 90% of the time as I am guily as well just like everybody in baggage and ramp except for a few.
As soon as I find the job that I will enjoy %99 of the time then I will quit AC and everybody including Rebel that thinks they know everything will be happy. Everybody that does not work for Air Canada that has made comments on ramp and baggage should be fired should go to work for AC in YYZ and see what goes on first before firing off a cannon just like I have no right to say about working conditions at Globe Ground or West Jet that is not my place unless I work for these companies, but it does not matter what I say all you guys want me to get fired and until that happens I guess I will be working at AC for the time being.

Air Canada Strike

Wildcats