"When ready" - Stupid phraseology change

[...]

HEY!!!! I say that steady on the mic...Do I get some royalties and OR cash for that!?!

I'll take an intersection named after me. OR an IF.

"Cleared to the "I am Birddog" for the straight in onto ILS 22 (into Sudbury)"

[Jerricho]

Change is good Donkey. And don't forget, it's now "Climb" and "Descend"........... you can . the "Maintain" in there if you deem necessary, but not by itself.

Personally, I applaud any effort to ensure Aviation phraseology is standard the world over. Yeah, it can be kind of weird getting used to it, especially when you've been saying something one way for the last dozen or so years.

[bcrosby]

The change has been documented in an AIC...

I suggest you take a look at them periodically:

http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefiniti ... ic_eng.pdf

Specifically AIC 27/08 issued July 3rd:

AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION CIRCULAR 27/08
CHANGES TO ATC PHRASEOLOGY FOR ALTITUDE ASSIGNMENT

Introduction
The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) publishes standard aviation terms and phrases for use worldwide in the Procedures for Air Navigation Services—Air Traffic Management (PANS-ATM), Document 4444. For the most part, the use of standard terms and phraseology in Canada by air traffic control (ATC) is consistent with those published by ICAO. However, the phraseology currently used by Canadian ATC when issuing altitude instructions is often not in accordance with that recommended by ICAO.
Intention of Circular

The intention of this circular is to inform pilots that NAV CANADA, in its continuing effort to harmonize with international standards and procedures, will be implementing use of the ICAO recommended phraseology when issuing altitude instructions.

1. Climb/Descend/Maintain
Currently, air traffic controllers in Canada routinely use the term MAINTAIN [altitude] when instructing an aircraft to change altitude as well as when instructing an aircraft to maintain the present altitude. Since MAINTAIN [altitude] is internationally understood to mean “remain at” [altitude], this could cause confusion among foreign pilots who might believe that they are at the wrong altitude when instructed to remain at an altitude different from their present altitude. In the near future, NAV CANADA will withdraw use of the term MAINTAIN for altitude change instructions and replace it with the ICAO standard phraseology, CLIMB TO or DESCEND TO [altitude]. The term MAINTAIN [altitude] will continue to be used to indicate maintenance of a level. The phraseology CLIMB TO AND MAINTAIN or DESCEND TO AND MAINTAIN [altitude] might also be used by ATC when considered appropriate.

2. Continue Climb/Descent To, Stop Climb/Descent At
There is currently no phraseology specified in NAV CANADA’s ATC Manual of Operations for amending the assigned altitude of an aircraft that is climbing or descending. The ICAO standard phraseology CONTINUE CLIMB or CONTINUE DESCENT TO [altitude] and STOP CLIMB or STOP DESCENT AT [altitude] will soon be introduced for use by Canadian air traffic controllers for this purpose. Should the climb or descent of an aircraft be interrupted by an instruction to STOP CLIMB or DESCENT AT [altitude], further clearance from ATC must be obtained before resuming climb or descent.

3. When Ready Climb/Descend To
The phraseology AT YOUR/PILOT’S DISCRETION when used by ATC in Canada has mixed meanings. In the case of the uncontrolled movements around an airport, such as push back on the apron or during landing and takeoff from uncontrolled areas, it is used to indicate that the action to be taken is at the “pilot’s responsibility.” In the case of VHF direction-finding service (VDF) cloud breaking procedures, air traffic controllers are required to advise the pilot “that descent into cloud is at the discretion of the pilot,” also indicating that the action is taken at the responsibility of the pilot.

While NAV CANADA’s current ATC Manual of Operations does not specify use of the term AT PILOT’S DISCRETION for altitude change, the term is used by air traffic controllers to indicate that the altitude change is to be commenced at the “pilot’s convenience.” The meaning of the phrase AT PILOT’S DISCRETION as specified in the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Airman’s Information Manual differs from that published in Transport Canada’s Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM). Although this is not the interpretation in Canada, it appears that pilots who fly frequently in the United States sometimes mistakenly assume that the phrase cancels all altitude crossing requirements such as those required in a Standard Terminal Arrival Procedure. Additionally, the phrase is not always understood by foreign pilots and may be difficult to pronounce for those whose first language is not English.

ICAO recommends that the phrase WHEN READY be used to indicate that an altitude change or other action is to be commenced at a time convenient to the pilot. Since this phrase is concise, internationally understood, and less likely to be misinterpreted, WHEN READY will become the standard NAV CANADA phrase as well.

WHEN READY, if used in conjunction with an altitude assignment, means that ATC has offered the pilot the option of starting climb or descent whenever the pilot wishes. Pilots may temporarily level off at any intermediate altitude; however, once an altitude has been vacated, the pilot may not return to that altitude because ATC may have reassigned it to another aircraft. Pilots are expected to advise ATC of any temporary level-off at any intermediate altitude. Compliance with any assigned or published altitude crossing restriction is required unless specifically cancelled by ATC.

Date of Implementation
These phraseology changes will be implemented by NAV CANADA effective 17 July 2008 and included in a future revision to the Transport Canada AIM.

[scrambled_legs]

CPL take some holidays... you need them.

[Jerricho]

Ahhh, CPL my friend.

The phrase "pilots discretion" means something different in the US to here, does it not?

[Raydar]

Well actually i think you would use "maintain" in some situations. Lets say a a/c comes to you in a block ie. 330 Blocking 360. If they are level at 350 and you want them to stay there then what other choice do you have but to say Maintain. Also if you are going to saw someone off on a climb for example...you gave them 280 but want them to level at 220 i would say maintain. As for P.D. in a descent...Lets say you issue a clearance that would normally involve the term when ready but you want the a/c to start a decent now for traffic but upon reaching a certain flight level they can resume the decent at their discretion. ABC123 descend 170 when ready, leave FL370 for 300 now, balance when ready??? Doesn't make sense. The problem is that PD in the states means that a/c can level off at any altitude on the way down. In Canada and I will assume the rest of the world PD means start a continuous decent whenever you want. Knowing that a difference exists would be key to preventing any problems. ICAO should be the unifying body that determines aviation standards throughout the world but sadly a lot of countries have their own variations to certains terms and phrases.

Just out of curiosity, How many people have used the when ready phrase only to have the pilot ask "is that at our discretion"? or simply read back "at our discretion."

[invertedattitude]

It would go like "

"Descend FL330 now, and when ready descend FL290"

The best response to "When Ready" for me has been:

"uhhh ok I guess thats Pilots discretion to FL290"

[Justin Case]

What is it about some people that they are so resistant to change?! I've confused foreign pilots when using "maintain" in the past. I'm glad we've finally (albeit reluctantly) caught up with the rest of the world. If there's any confusion now, that will fade with time. Then again, with some people refusing to change this will, inevitably, take longer.

[Jerricho]

I was of the impression that "pilot's discretion" in the US allowed for leveling off at intermediate altitudes. Can't remember where I read that.

[Pratt]

I was given the "when ready" clearance the other day, I thought it was the controller who was using non-standard terminology, didn't really think anything of it though at the time. Thanks for mentioning it, now I know!!

[Benwa]

I was of the impression that "pilot's discretion" in the US allowed for leveling off at intermediate altitudes. Can't remember where I read that.

Jerricho... in Canada, at pilot's discretion / when ready, allows leveling off.

WHEN READY, if used in conjunction with an altitude assignment, means that ATC has offered the pilot the option of starting climb or descent whenever the pilot wishes. Pilots may temporarily level off at any intermediate altitude; however, once an altitude has been vacated, the pilot may not return to that altitude because ATC may have reassigned it to another aircraft. Pilots are expected to advise ATC of any temporary level-off at any intermediate altitude.

[Jerricho]

I was under the impression it was different. Hmm, did it change?

(Edited to add)

I found this in the online version updated 2008-09-08 (RAC 8.5.1)

(b) If the phrase “at pilot’s discretion” is used in conjunction with an altitude clearance, the change of altitude may be initiated when the pilot decides. When the change is initiated, the pilot should advise ATC. Pilots may temporarily level off at any intermediate altitude; however, pilots should advise ATC of any temporary level-off at any intermediate altitude. Vertical navigation is at the pilot’s discretion; however, adherence to assigned or published altitude crossing restrictions and speeds is mandatory (CAR 602.31 Compliance with Air Traffic Control Instructions and Clearances) unless otherwise cleared. [MEAs are not considered restrictions; however, pilots are expected to remain at or above MEAs].

I see they still have "at pilot's discretion".......clear as mud eh?

[What Flaps?]

I noticed some controllers are still using "at your discretion" where most are saying, "when ready" I queried Edmonton ATC yesterday about the change. She said American pilots were having too much of a tough time with "your discretion". I had to laugh....
Mind you I do still say "at pilot's discretion"

[invertedattitude]

With some time having passed now, I have noticed the following...

the only pilots who readback "When Ready" are american/euro pilots...

Anyway, previous to this change, I found most American regionals when given "Pilots Discretion Descend FLXXX" would depart immediate, I find with the new "When Ready" they do tend to maintain their level... could be nothing but a coincidence I guess and I can't understand where the big confusion was, but anyway....

Now that US Airways changed their callsign from "US Air" to "Cactus" with the Tag still reading "USA" that was far more confusing, irritating albeit somewhat amusing when it started. It didn't take too long however, just yesterday all US Airways flights now tag up with "AWE" instead of "USA" which was America West's old identifier and callsign (Cactus) whom US Airways bought out for those who don't follow the whole line of reasoning...

When I queried one US Air pilot about the callsign change his response was to the point:

"Just yet another stupid and idiotic idea from "Management" in an attempt to keep the peace with those America West guys in the company now, to hell with safety though!"

Now I've gone off on a tangent... sorry.

[Dave T]

As someone that likes routine and doesn't like change I was a little annoyed with this change. I found after a little while I got used to it just as I did with line up and wait (though I still think position and hold was better). I actually find it easier to say "when ready" and understand how it helps out a poor english pilot. I think we have a better chance of an increase in safety this way than we do expecting poor english pilots to learn more english.

My question is that when we got the change and it was being used everwhere. Now it seems controllers have almost all gone back to using pilots discretion. Has something changed again? If it has these things need to be communicated to pilots because I don't know what I am supposed to say anymore.

[ywgatc]

"When ready" is proper phraseology now, however for myself, I found it harder to say, but started using it anyhow, then all the pilots would read back "my discretion". So I went back to "your discretion" for the most part except with foreign aircraft. That's just what I do, but to keep it by the book and uniform across the board, I should be using "when ready" all the time.

[the_professor]

http://www.flightsafety.org/home.html

[Dave T]

Dave T wrote:
I think we have a better chance of an increase in safety this way than we do expecting poor english pilots to learn more english.



Yes, the best solution to this problem is to simply lower the bar.

If only life were that simple...

Not that I agree with it, just seems to be the way things work. If they are allowed to fly in my airspace and can't understand what they are being told I'd rather things be dumbed down than have them run into me.