How airlines deal with 'customers of size'

[flyingdan]

An interesting article on MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26158641/

You're paying more to travel, and not just for your plane ticket. Every pound counts as the number of carriers charging for all pieces of checked luggage racks up. So it stands to reason that the public might wonder why airlines don't charge extra for passengers with significant overages of a more, uh, personal nature.

Southwest Airlines calls them "customers of size." Medical professionals would use the term "clinically obese." Bloggers and message board habitués use names that are less polite, but all imply that the passengers in question are overweight.

Many people assume that obese people are getting something of a free ride. But are they? Nearly all airlines keep it very quiet, but many have policies — informal or formal — in place to make sure that passengers of size carry their own weight.

It's a tricky business, Airfarewatchdog.com has found. In some places — Canada, for instance — it just got trickier. A winter ruling barred Canadian airlines from discriminating against "clinically obese" customers. Southwest was successfully sued by a passenger who was told she needed to purchase a second seat after she had already boarded — too late, the ruling found. An ample Air France passenger won a case after citing humiliation at the hands of staff who wrapped packing tape around him in public to prove that he was too fat to sit one seat, forcing him to purchase another.

Here's the funny part about those lawsuits: At the time, both Southwest and Air France had official policies in place for dealing with overweight passengers. Southwest's policy has been around for years. It states that if staff members determine that the passenger will not fit in one seat, the passenger must purchase a second, a cost which will be reimbursed if the flight is not full.

Air France's policy was looser, urging passengers who knew that not having an empty seat next to them would be a problem, to handle it on their own in advance. (As of this writing, Air France passengers "with a high body mass" are warned that if they do not purchase an extra seat, they may not be allowed to board.) In the end, both airlines were punished for being up-front with their customers, even if the execution of the policy perhaps needed work. This is, after all, a terrifically sensitive matter.

Different airlines, different policies
Perhaps that is why, for many airlines, the topic tends to be along the lines of 'That Which We Don't Speak Of.' Ask United Airlines what rules it has in place for dealing with the situation, and you'll hear a pregnant pause, followed by a terse "We have no policy."

American Airlines is more forthcoming, but hastens to emphasize that in no way does it require its passengers to purchase two seats. Spokesman Tim Wagner said passengers whose weight exceeds 250 pounds should know that there are "possible limitations that could result in American not being able to accommodate them." He also said that the airline urges passengers to "recognize ahead of time that they may need to purchase two seats." Wagner also cited an FAA regulation to which all airlines adhere: If you can't snap the seatbelt (after the extension is added, that is) you can't fly.

Airlines eyeing plane weight
With fuel costs at record highs, Airlines are counting each pound on board their flights. CNBC's Jane Wells reports that airlines may reconsider how much an 'average' passenger weighs.

JetBlue Airways doesn't mind taking a more straightforward stance. Spokesperson Alison Eshelman said its policy "requires" larger customers who need an additional seat for their own comfort to buy one in advance. If they do not, and the crew cannot accommodate them, they will be required to buy the seat in any case, with no refunds. (However, Eshelman noted, truthfully, that JetBlue does offer its passengers a little more wiggle room with its larger-than-average seat width on board the airline's A320 aircraft.)

Does size matter?
But what of the growing awareness among the traveling public that it costs the airline more to transport an obese passenger than a passenger of average weight? Those hoping for any type of joy in that department should sit on their hands. Delta's Susan Elliott said that the airline "has no plans to implement any policy that discriminates against any of our passengers." Translation: This is one hot potato nobody is going to touch.

Here's a look at how different airlines deal with the "customer of size."

Southwest Airlines
Passengers should plan on purchasing an extra seat or risk being asked to do so at the airport by staff. If the flight is not sold out, the passenger may claim a refund.

American Airlines
The airline states that passengers over 250 pounds should recognize that there may be limitations to the service that the airline can provide. However, it does not require that you purchase an extra seat automatically.

United Airlines
The airline has no policy whatsoever.

Midwest Airlines
As with Southwest, passengers are encouraged to know their needs in advance. If staff members determine that two seats are required, the seat will be sold at the lowest possible fare, with a refund available if there is one or more open seats on the flight.

Air France
Passengers with "high body mass" may receive a 25 percent discount on an extra seat, knowing that if they choose not to buy the seat, they may risk not being able to fly.

JetBlue Airways
You are required to buy a second seat, and there are no refunds.

Delta Air Lines
The airline "works to accommodate" passengers with special needs. Upon request and availability, it will try to make sure the next seat is unoccupied. However, if the plane is full, you will most likely be asked to leave the flight and buy a second seat on the next available flight. (You can actually count on this being a fairly typical practice on most airlines.)

Has anyone here had any experiences they'd like to share?

[fixed pitch]

If you can't fit into a seat safely then buy another. If I am sitting beside someone who can't fit in their seat and can't put the arm rest down it is a safet risk to myself should something go wrong. Call me an a hole or whatever but if you're obese to the extent that you can't fit in a seat why should I, or anyone else for that matter, have to suffer? It's a safety issue and it's something that people of normal size should not have to pay for. And yes we do, increase in ticket prices, decrease in wages, it's all part of the game.

I was heading to NY a little while back with someone in front of me that most of topped 300-350, stuffed into a tiny seat. Not only was he uncomfortable, but the girl beside him was besieged with his overflowing mass and was unable to sit in her seat properly. This continuing trend of appologetic western culture is getting to be a bit much. We always seem to bend over backwards for the complainers who feel they are being wronged for the way they are. You're obese, fat, you can do something about and don't tell me it's a disease or it's impossible to change. I'm not an ignorant man, I know it's hard to change oneself in such a manner but it can be done. I don't feel sorry for fat people, I don't think they should have the courtesy or help extended to those that really need it. Perhaps if this stopped people would think twice about feeding their 3 year pop, or Mc D's or in general, teaching their children bad eating habits from a young age. Perhaps some discrimination might wake up the world to this problem, though I think most are aware just not active on it. Seeing an obese child wadle around is sad, very sad, and the thought that they've been set up to continue in such a manner in life is sad too.

Now that my rant is complete, I do think the obese should pay for the extra seat, I'm not willing to risk hurting myself.

[Grantmac]

I think it's time that we (the world) stop skirting the obesity issue. It's costing us more than plane tickets, think of the medical costs in Canada. I mean seriously have you ever met a really big person that you could say was honestly trying really hard to loose the weight? I haven't. You meet slightly overweight people who say they used to be huge and they'd never let themselves go like that again. Obesity is becomming the largest killer in North America, people are literally eating themselves to death.
I worked with a man who was an honest 350 pounder, in the military. Hadn't passed a fitness test in 7 years (always a medical chit). Sounded like he was gonna die after 2 flights of stairs (walking slowly). Thank goodness they have started kicking people like that out these days. I remember he was once a "casualty" on the bridge, it look 10 people and a chainfall to get hime down two ladders.
Of course you can't descriminate against people based on their shape or size, that isn't fair. Maybe an impending food shortage will do us as a people some good. Of course the fast-food places will still be cheap (just with smaller margins) so maybe it won't be good afterall.
I say make anyone more than 30lbs past the standard weight pay by the pound. It's time to stop appologizing to people for their problems.
Cheers,
Grant

[2R]

How crashworthy would a row of seats designed for 170 lb adults be if the same row of seats held 350 lb adults instead ?
Should boeing /Airbus/Bombardier prove that the aircraft are now built for the new size humans ?
Simple things like evacuation times (maybe bigger exits might be required )
Stronger seats and floors .
Bigger seats would make it more pleasant for everyone and stronger seat structures would make it safer for everyone.
Bigger exits would make it safer for everyone .
After all if they make it so that only the 170 lbs people would be comfortable all those living large people will not enjoy flying and the airlines will lose a large part of the flying public.
Rule one the customer is always right ,even when they are wrong .If a lot of your customers are large the first airline to treat those customers with respect care and understanding will enjoy their regular patronage.And who knows if enough people who enjoy food start travelling more maybe the food will improve on those shabby cheap flights .

[tsgas]

We are dealing with "Pigs in Space"

[ScudRunner]

I payed for my seat why should some fatty who can't put down the fork have the right to invade my space. Slap them on a pallet and fire them in the belly.

[disengage]

All really good replies... i agree with whats been said and in no way do i blame the airlines for being strait forward like someone already said its a huge safety factor.

[bob sacamano]

I was riding with the sheep in the back of a 737. I was the last to get on board and the plane was fairly full. I see my aisle seat way in the back. As I get closer, I notice the lady beside me was (and probably still is) obese. The arm rest was raised, otherwise she wouldn't be able to sit on a seat. I tried to sit down as best as I could, but I barely had half of my seat available. I didn't ask to move nor say anything since I was flying for free.

Had I been a full paying passenger, I wouldn't accept to sit in that seat.

Not only was I uncomfortable, but I also didn't have access to change the T.V. stations since the arm rest was behind her.

[disengage]

hey bob i thought the tv changer was on the aisle armrest and the arm rest to your right was for the middle tv...thats flying west jet...

[cubonfloats]

hehe its always great when the passengers need seatbelt extentions, they usually get pretty embarassed. If you cant fit in a seatbelt, maybe its time to hit the gym once or twice a week.

The worst Ive seen was one lady was de-boarding a single otter and we had to open the other rear door for her to fit through If you need the double doors to exit an airplane, maybe its time to hit the gym 5 times a week!

But hey, I agree..if you cant fit in your seat, you are taking potential business away from that airline. they could be selling that extra seat, so even if you have to pay 80% of the fare for that second seat, the airline is doing you a favour of giving you a good deal.

[Changes in Latitudes]

If you're flying northern trips, consider them paying versions of survival kits. They can provide warmth, shelter, and food.

Actually, I thought I saw a first officer sizing me up recently after I bent over to tie up my shoe at the terminal in YYZ.

[hazatude]

If you're flying northern trips, consider them paying versions of survival kits. They can provide warmth, shelter, and food.

Actually, I thought I saw a first officer sizing me up recently after I bent over to tie up my shoe at the terminal in YYZ.

Tauntaun?

[Changes in Latitudes]

I had to google that...no you cannot ride me.

[small penguin]

Rofl at the Tauntaun!

"It may smell bad but it'll keep you warm"

I payed for my seat why should some fatty who can't put down the fork have the right to invade my space. Slap them on a pallet and fire them in the belly.

QFT

[Flybaby]

I recently had a passenger out of YER that inquired if our seats had arm rest, because that would prevent them from traveling because they where 300+ LBS. I was concerned that they would not be able to fit through the emergency escape on the right side of the plane. The passenger was greatly surprised that the seat belt fit her and said it was the first time that one has. I t reminded me of some friends at the big green machine that did a charter out of BC, because the passenger could be loaded through the cargo door on the metro with the medivac stretcher lift, because that was the cheapest plane they could fit into.

[linecrew]

ROFL! I can't believe kids had this on their Christmas lists.

[GilletteNorth]

Guess someone like Andre the Giant never should have travelled by air with all the negative comments about size. Let's keep the discussion about size to how it relates to other passenger's comfort. Myself? I've never been able to fit on the old BMI chart, 6ft 2in and I was supposed to be 180lbs. Yeah right, I was that maybe in high school when I was 5ft 11in. No one wants to sit beside someone who takes more than their share of the space in the row. I only want to ensure the person sitting next to me can sit with the armrest down so they don't 'spread' themselves over to my seat. beyond that it's normally all bumping elbows most of the flight anyway.

A policy of 'buy a bigger seat if you need one' is just fine for handling large people. And as many people have pointed out in other discussions of seat roomage, you can always buy a business class ticket where there's more room anyway.

[bob sacamano]

hey bob i thought the tv changer was on the aisle armrest and the arm rest to your right was for the middle tv...thats flying west jet...

It was WS, and I was in C seat, yet my controller was on my left arm rest.

[E-Flyer]

If you can't fit into a seat safely then buy another. If I am sitting beside someone who can't fit in their seat and can't put the arm rest down it is a safet risk to myself should something go wrong. Call me an a hole or whatever but if you're obese to the extent that you can't fit in a seat why should I, or anyone else for that matter, have to suffer? It's a safety issue and it's something that people of normal size should not have to pay for. And yes we do, increase in ticket prices, decrease in wages, it's all part of the game.

I was heading to NY a little while back with someone in front of me that most of topped 300-350, stuffed into a tiny seat. Not only was he uncomfortable, but the girl beside him was besieged with his overflowing mass and was unable to sit in her seat properly. This continuing trend of appologetic western culture is getting to be a bit much. We always seem to bend over backwards for the complainers who feel they are being wronged for the way they are. You're obese, fat, you can do something about and don't tell me it's a disease or it's impossible to change. I'm not an ignorant man, I know it's hard to change oneself in such a manner but it can be done. I don't feel sorry for fat people, I don't think they should have the courtesy or help extended to those that really need it. Perhaps if this stopped people would think twice about feeding their 3 year pop, or Mc D's or in general, teaching their children bad eating habits from a young age. Perhaps some discrimination might wake up the world to this problem, though I think most are aware just not active on it. Seeing an obese child wadle around is sad, very sad, and the thought that they've been set up to continue in such a manner in life is sad too.

Now that my rant is complete, I do think the obese should pay for the extra seat, I'm not willing to risk hurting myself.

I think we got bigger issues than obese people in planes. How about we focus on those instead?

[oldtimer]

Obese people are becoming such a problem that some ambulance authorities are beginning to equip with larger and heavier construction stretchers. Ask Bandaid how they deal with "people of size". Can you imagine trying to carry a 300+ pounder on a stretcher from the third or fourth floor of a walk-up apartment?
But if life deals you a lemon, make lemonade. I am surprised some enterprising air carrier has not equipped an airplane specifically for the fat patient. I know Westex was thinking about it quite a bit.
I think it is also about time the manufacturers of airplanes and airplane equipment start to realize the average population is getting larger and the US FAA has to dump or modify this idea of an average weight of 170 lbs for a passenger when it comes time to design things like seats and airstairs.
I notice some shopping malls are putting plus sized chairs and couches in the malls but the food courts still use the skinny seats. Some of those seats are near impossible for the average person to sit in.
I know if I were forced to share a seat on an airline with a clinically or morbidly obese person, I would be upset at the least and concerned enough for my safety to speak up. I do not think all the blame should be placed on the lard -arses, the airlines should also be recognisant of the problem and make changes to the design of the interior of their airplanes. Maybe make one or two rows or seats available for these fat slobs.

[CD]

I think it is also about time the manufacturers of airplanes and airplane equipment start to realize the average population is getting larger and the US FAA has to dump or modify this idea of an average weight of 170 lbs for a passenger when it comes time to design things like seats and airstairs.

Well, the data is certainly available... Here is one source: SAE - Civilian American and European Surface Anthropometry Resource Project—CAESAR

[Lurch]

I have been fortunate enough to not have this issue so far but I would be more then happy to request another seat and would out right refuse to seat next to them, the seats are too small as it is, the last thing anybody needs is somebody oozing into your seat. If there is more then one they should get the same row so the can take up the middle seat together.

They should make a gate for people like the ones they make for your carry on, if you can't walk in between the metal bars you have to buy another seat.

As for over weight patients the surgeons and anesthesiologist get paid a bonus when the operate on obese patients because of the added complications they have to deal with.

Lurch

[InTheGame]

What about charging all passengers per pound? I haven't thought about any repercussions yet anyone have any thoughts? Say a standard charge per pound depending on the distance flown? baggage goes the same way. People start packing less, in thier suitcase as well as their bodies

[Flybaby]

Sounds like a good idea on paper, till you loose your job as a traveling business man to midgets. It wouldn't take long for them to take over, they have been waiting for this day.

[orbit]

Also consider that if you are of weight and check in baggage that is over 50 lbs per luggage and this glutton of 350 has same policy kind a stinks....after all they are over not including luggage!
I heard a charge per pound was coming out ,,,they will probably allow for the 10 to 20 over but then....you pay!