"Victory is in sight in Iraq"

[Rockie]

Great news from the Republican National Convention. And who would know better than Governor Sarah Palin especially since, you know, Alaska is right next to Russia and all?

[genetic jack hammer]

"Victory is in sight in Iraq". Great, now maybe the U.S. can mossey on over to Afghanistian and FINALLY begin their war on terror....and try, just try, to make it look like they're still actively searching for Mr. Bin Laden andhis associates.

[Rockie]

Earlier this summer, Palin gave a speech at her former church in which she urged ministry students to pray for the troops in Iraq.

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God" she said at the Wasilla Assembly of God.

Maybe God told her where to look for the coming victory.


I wonder if it was at the same time he told her to build a pipeline

"God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that."

[genetic jack hammer]

"God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that."

You know the world gas shortage situation is BAD when even god wants a gas line built.

[swede]

Heres some more great! news from the RNC - Geriatrics and hockey moms and apple pie, it brings tears to the eyes dont it

[Topspin]

Earlier this summer, Palin gave a speech at her former church in which she urged ministry students to pray for the troops in Iraq.

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God"

"God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that."

Just stop and think for a second that she doesn't have to actually believe that to get the vote out of the uneducated ignorant Christians. It's just another tool. Not to say if she does or not, but perspective.

I would'nt put a similar gig past our politicians.

[Topspin]

"God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that."

You know the world gas shortage situation is BAD when even god wants a gas line built.

God's take on gas lines.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid ... t=lf&hl=en

[. ._]

Topspin, you're going to hell.

SEE YA THERE, BUDDY!!!!

-istp

[Topspin]

Topspin, you're going to hell.

SEE YA THERE, BUDDY!!!!

-istp

Believe in God, I'm going to hell. Don't believe in God, I'm going to hell. Whats the point exactly?

But cheers.

[Rockie]

Just stop and think for a second that she doesn't have to actually believe that to get the vote out of the uneducated ignorant Christians. It's just another tool. Not to say if she does or not, but perspective.

I would'nt put a similar gig past our politicians.

It's pretty much a given that politicians pander to any group they think will provide large numbers of voters. The prospect of Palin being insincere when she said it is only slightly less frightening than if she was sincere. The fact is Americans have always had the "God is on our side" frame of mind which is bad enough. Now they're moving into the "God's will" fundamentalist frame of mind which is very scary. If a large part of the American population thinks it is God's work invading another country then we should all be worried.

There is no difference between "God's will" and "Allah's will".

[Nark]

No Rockie,
Its the interpretation of God's or Allah's will.

[BibleMonkey]

No Rockie,
Its the interpretation of God's or Allah's will.

Hmmmm....good points....

But, after carefully reading the Qur'an ( only one version and that is the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad by Allah Most High ) and studying and reflecting on the wisdom held within the Holy Bible ( revised many times, and having numerous versions , the first translated from Hebrew into Greek , appearing first in Alexandria in 300 BC ) I have reached the conclusion that Jesus could probably kick Mohammeds ass in a fair fight.

Allah has that sharp sword-true; but Jesus has that guy ...( hmmm what's his name, that one guy with a sling shot ...durn...) with a sling shot. The theological argument, I think, boils down to range- A sling shot has way more range than a sword.

*lights cigar and leans back in squeaky chair*

[Rockie]

No Rockie,
Its the interpretation of God's or Allah's will.

Of course. And there are a million of each. But what I was referring to was the invoking of God's (Allah's) will to justify the most atrocious actions. The Evangelical Right Wing Christians in the USA are just as bad as those who use their own interpretation of the Koran for their own purposes.

God's work in Iraq? Scary stuff.

[JakeYYZ]

John McCain has promised to bring the troops home in victory, with honor. Barack Obama has promised only to bring them home. Obama says “I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated. I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”
John McCain dreamed that wildest dream, ..and Obama was not in it. John McCain anticipated that success. Yes, “the surge has succeeded” as Obama says…and what do we call success in war?
A: “Victory”.

[swede]

As to the title of this thread, all I can say is.. - except for the cost in human lives that is..

[bmc]

John McCain has promised to bring the troops home in victory, with honor. Barack Obama has promised only to bring them home. Obama says “I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated. I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”
John McCain dreamed that wildest dream, ..and Obama was not in it. John McCain anticipated that success. Yes, “the surge has succeeded” as Obama says…and what do we call success in war?
A: “Victory”.

So what is victory in Iraq? How will we know we are there?

Fox News will tell us, I guess.

[Nark]

Can I tell you? Or do you not trust first hand accounts?

I'd say not getting blown up or shot from some asshole every time you leave the wire.

The ability for Iraqi's to stand in a line for work, food or to buy gas that they extracted without getting blown up.

I'd say that Marines and soldiers in the transition teams, stepping back and observing as the Iraqi officers take charge of the patrol/mission.

Or the ability of an Iraqi NCO to make a decision. Something that they couldn't do under Saddam.

Or how about Iraqi children smiling and waving as you pass by instead of running and crying?

[cubonfloats]

When I was a kid it was "home by Christmas", it turned out to be right, but they forgot to say which Christmas.

wasnt that the first world war? how old are you?

[V1RotateV2]

Still can't believe that in the 21st century governments are using God's supposed will to justify atrocities. How do they pretend to even know what God wants?

So Jihad versus Crusades is the new geopolitical game?
Unfortunate that, specially South of the border, so many people will vote and live in a "faith based way". That is, believe your leaders just because they say so, and don't you dare ask for proof.
Well, its the same group that says evolution did not happen and the world was created 6000 years ago.
Where did critical thinking got lost over the last 8 years?

[Rockie]

No Rockie,
Its the interpretation of God's or Allah's will.

Hmmmm....good points....

But, after carefully reading the Qur'an ( only one version and that is the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad by Allah Most High ) and studying and reflecting on the wisdom held within the Holy Bible ( revised many times, and having numerous versions , the first translated from Hebrew into Greek , appearing first in Alexandria in 300 BC ) I have reached the conclusion that Jesus could probably kick Mohammeds ass in a fair fight.

Allah has that sharp sword-true; but Jesus has that guy ...( hmmm what's his name, that one guy with a sling shot ...durn...) with a sling shot. The theological argument, I think, boils down to range- A sling shot has way more range than a sword.

*lights cigar and leans back in squeaky chair*

Terrific argument. But didn't Zeus have lightning bolts?

Trump that with anything but a thermonuclear weapon.

*lights bigger cigar and leans back in an even squeakier chair*

[Nark]

Gen Petraeus disagrees with me, but read between the lines:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7610405.stm

[JakeYYZ]

Hmmmm.
It’s why I support the fight in Iraq. We have to try something to change their culture now while we have the chance. Because the American people don’t have infinite patience and we’re not that far removed from the generation prepared to utterly annihilate the Japanese.
A lot of people don’t realize it but the core of the American people is an uncompromising generosity coupled with absolute ferocity. They’ll love you as friends and neighbors right up until you prove beyond any doubt that you’re neither. Then they will kill you, bury the bodies and no longer give a damn.
This is why the Germans and Japanese are still so anti-war. They learned at first hand that f*cking with them is a one-way ticket to f*ckedville and that’s a road you don’t get to travel twice.
The problem with muslims and Arabs in specific is that WWII bypassed them. They didn’t experience what a truly enraged American public is capable of. Even Iraq wasn’t ever an example.
If faced with an endless supply of Beslan attacks or terrorist murders of U.S. citizens and children. Then Americans will make the calculation between enduring and saying “f*k it, time for them to die”.

[Nark]

Then Americans will make the calculation between enduring and saying “f*k it, time for them to die”.

And this is where I come in.

"No better friend, No worse enemy" is so poetic, no?

[Expat]

Hmmmm.
It’s why I support the fight in Iraq. We have to try something to change their culture now while we have the chance. Because the American people don’t have infinite patience and we’re not that far removed from the generation prepared to utterly annihilate the Japanese.
A lot of people don’t realize it but the core of the American people is an uncompromising generosity coupled with absolute ferocity. They’ll love you as friends and neighbors right up until you prove beyond any doubt that you’re neither. Then they will kill you, bury the bodies and no longer give a damn.
This is why the Germans and Japanese are still so anti-war. They learned at first hand that f*cking with them is a one-way ticket to f*ckedville and that’s a road you don’t get to travel twice.
The problem with muslims and Arabs in specific is that WWII bypassed them. They didn’t experience what a truly enraged American public is capable of. Even Iraq wasn’t ever an example.
If faced with an endless supply of Beslan attacks or terrorist murders of U.S. citizens and children. Then Americans will make the calculation between enduring and saying “f*k it, time for them to die”.

You must be inferring that the US won WW 2...Are you a John Wayne fan?

[alctel]

Hmmmm.
It’s why I support the fight in Iraq. We have to try something to change their culture now while we have the chance. Because the American people don’t have infinite patience and we’re not that far removed from the generation prepared to utterly annihilate the Japanese.
A lot of people don’t realize it but the core of the American people is an uncompromising generosity coupled with absolute ferocity. They’ll love you as friends and neighbors right up until you prove beyond any doubt that you’re neither. Then they will kill you, bury the bodies and no longer give a damn.
This is why the Germans and Japanese are still so anti-war. They learned at first hand that f*cking with them is a one-way ticket to f*ckedville and that’s a road you don’t get to travel twice.
The problem with muslims and Arabs in specific is that WWII bypassed them. They didn’t experience what a truly enraged American public is capable of. Even Iraq wasn’t ever an example.
If faced with an endless supply of Beslan attacks or terrorist murders of U.S. citizens and children. Then Americans will make the calculation between enduring and saying “f*k it, time for them to die”.

Ok, you do realise that Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with the attacks on 9/11 right? That it was proved over and over again that there was no relation? And that the White House lied and bent the truth about being WMDs? And that since you invaded, almost 500,000 iraqs have been killed, with millions displaced from their homes, having lost everything? After a while they just become numbers, and its hard to remember that everyone of those numbers is a real human being, with a family, a job, a house, a commute etc etc

The German, Japanese and almost everyone else is so 'anti-war' because they have seen first hand the devastation that war brings, in their own countries. The US has no such thing, since there hasn't been a war there for 100's of years. The diet of war movies and fox news glamourising violence in warfare doesn't help either.

There was a reason that almost everyone sat out going to Iraq - it was a false, illegal war, launched on false pretenses, that (rightly) sunk Blair in the UK, ruined US relations with the rest of the world and has sunk the US into a spiralling recession.

edit: and don't even start me on State-Sponsered Terriorism, the US has overthrown more democracies and enabled more dictatorships in the last 30 years than everyone else in the world combined, esp in South America. You can look this all up for yourself in a library, or online.

edit2: sorry for the all the wordy rant, but ignorance of history or geo-politics really really annoys me when its combined with blind flag-waving patriotism!