WOW Snowbirds

[Airtids]

Just spent a most excellent afternoon on the water with my family, and caught todays Snowbirds show in CYYJ celebrating BC's 150th Birthday. While I've seen them perform several times before, today we were RIGHT underneath them- spitting distance. OK, not that close, but still way closer than I've ever been before; like having a backstage pass. The skill these guys have is amazing. I swear, there are times when they are less than 4-5 feet apart, and upside down! AT THE SAME TIME!! Jeez, I don't even like to get that close to another airplane when I'm taxiing.

The wind was quite strong, and at the start we were directly beneath a TCU- not exactly the best conditions I would imagine, for doing what they do, making their job exponentially more difficult, but it was spectacular nontheless. I just wanted to voice my appreciation, and let the Gov't of canada know they can spend my tax dollars on that show anytime!

Probably not a lot of pot-smoking going on with these folks on their days off! I'm just sayin'...

[Mitch Cronin]

I just wanted to voice my appreciation, and let the Gov't of canada know they can spend my tax dollars on that show anytime!

I'll second that!

[LLLDRAM]

Probably not a lot of pot-smoking going on with these folks on their days off! I'm just sayin'...

Too funny and I can gaurantee, so very true. Yes, I'll donate my tax dollars to the lads as well - the whole Canadian Military and it's members make me very proud.

[ScudRunner]

http://www.casr.ca/bg-snowbird-project.htm

Found this about there eventual replacment, my money hopes for the Hawks. I really don't want to see our National Demo team reduced to turbo props.

And with the election coming up I think our only hope of getting jets is the conservative party, think about it when your in the voting booth on Oct 14.

[xsbank]

"...the whole Canadian Military and it's members make me very proud."

What is it about their members that make you proud?

[North Shore]

Any one know roughly the speed at which the Snowbirds do their stuff?

Hope you didn't get seasick, Tids - it looked a little rough out there.

[LLLDRAM]

"...the whole Canadian Military and it's members make me very proud."

What is it about their members that make you proud?

For one my Son........together with a few other young Canadians that I had the honour of spending a week with this past summer. Apart from my Son, each of the volunteers had given up some sort of limb or body part in the line of duty..........THEY, were all actually quite proud to have done so for their country.

Much the same as my Dad was is WWII I guess......

Anything else?

[North Shore]

Geez, you'd think that someone with a sig specifically mentioning sex would get the double entendre in 'members'!

[LLLDRAM]

Geez, you'd think that someone with a sig specifically mentioning sex would get the double entendre in 'members'!

Yah I guess in my late night grog I did miss the cross LOL. Good one xsbank - yah got me

That said, the event this summer was very memorable, brings home much of what we take for granted at times.

[metal]

I was down there today as well, probably the 2nd time I've seen em perform (Last time was probably when I was 13 or so!) I wished that I brought my camera, I didn't realize they were gonna be so low today! Amazing show and the skill of those guys is incredible.

[Hedley]

there are times when they are less than 4-5 feet apart, and upside down! AT THE SAME TIME!! Jeez, I don't even like to get that close to another airplane when I'm taxiing

Gee, it sure sounds like they were reckless and/or negligent,
according to the experts here on avcanada!

Clearly a "prudent" pilot would not do that, so they obviously
meet the standard of "negligence", established by long Tribunal
precedent, and heartily agreed with, by the vast majority here.

In fact, since there can be no argument as to their intentions
ahead of time, "reckless" would seem to apply, too!

I guess the Snowbirds will have to cancel their entire 2009
schedule, when the license suspensions kick in, eh?

[Dash-Ate]

http://www.casr.ca/bg-snowbird-project.htm

Found this about there eventual replacment, my money hopes for the Hawks. I really don't want to see our National Demo team reduced to turbo props.

And with the election coming up I think our only hope of getting jets is the conservative party, think about it when your in the voting booth on Oct 14.

Naw the Cons will likely cancel them becuase it is a type of "cultural event" and must be cut.

[Rockie]

there are times when they are less than 4-5 feet apart, and upside down! AT THE SAME TIME!! Jeez, I don't even like to get that close to another airplane when I'm taxiing

Gee, it sure sounds like they were reckless and/or negligent,
according to the experts here on avcanada!

Clearly a "prudent" pilot would not do that, so they obviously
meet the standard of "negligence", established by long Tribunal
precedent, and heartily agreed with, by the vast majority here.

In fact, since there can be no argument as to their intentions
ahead of time, "reckless" would seem to apply, too!

I guess the Snowbirds will have to cancel their entire 2009
schedule, when the license suspensions kick in, eh?

The difference of course being that they are trained, briefed and authorized to do what they are doing. Small details I know, but important ones.

[Hedley]

Rockie: you need to learn about this thing called:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

When you begin to understand this written and
conversational technique, many of the things
that you read and hear around you, that you
previously found confusing, will start to make sense

Next week:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

[Spokes]

Any one know roughly the speed at which the Snowbirds do their stuff?

Hope you didn't get seasick, Tids - it looked a little rough out there.

Well, I was lucky enough to get a ride with them once. I didn;t often look at the instruments, but at one point I noted in the 9 plane diamond, (I was in the outside left point), we were at around 1000' pointing more or less straight down, and if memory serves me doing in the high 300's.

I think max g was around 6ish. Started to grey out there, a quick grunt manouver saved me. max negative I think was around -2.

All in all though a fun and memorable ride.

[North Shore]

Ok, so that's straight down - would that make the level stuff ~ 240 ish? (You LUCKY Bastard!)

[Spokes]

Not sure, I spent most of the time looking outside. And yes, it was a nice treat to cap off a 23 year military career.

[lilfssister]

there are times when they are less than 4-5 feet apart, and upside down! AT THE SAME TIME!! Jeez, I don't even like to get that close to another airplane when I'm taxiing

Gee, it sure sounds like they were reckless and/or negligent,
according to the experts here on avcanada!

Clearly a "prudent" pilot would not do that, so they obviously
meet the standard of "negligence", established by long Tribunal
precedent, and heartily agreed with, by the vast majority here.

In fact, since there can be no argument as to their intentions
ahead of time, "reckless" would seem to apply, too!

I guess the Snowbirds will have to cancel their entire 2009
schedule, when the license suspensions kick in, eh?

The difference of course being that they are trained, briefed and authorized to do what they are doing. Small details I know, but important ones.

One should also mention: they don't have TC issued liscenses?

[RoyalCanadianRegiment]

http://www.casr.ca/bg-snowbird-project.htm

Found this about there eventual replacment, my money hopes for the Hawks. I really don't want to see our National Demo team reduced to turbo props.

And with the election coming up I think our only hope of getting jets is the conservative party, think about it when your in the voting booth on Oct 14.

This is a study done by Simon Fraser University, not the Canadian Forces, so should be taken with a grain of salt and not as fact. The Hawk is not the best replacement for the Tutor. The Snowbirds have a unique show that is based on finesse instead of speed and noise. By changing to the Hawk, the Snowbirds' show will be no different than the UK's Red Arrows. Don't get me wrong, the Red Arrows put on a great show but once again it is based on speed and noise to awe the crowd. I have spoken to numerious members of foreign Air Demo teams (Blue Angels, Red Arrows, Thunderbirds etc) and all have commented on the precision ballet that the Snowbirds provide (and most foreign Air Demo pilots are envious of that because it is a higher skill level to fly that close, with such precision). The Snowbirds are world renowned for their show and it would be a shame to see them change it due to a change in their airplane.

The Harvard 2 may be a better choice. It has jet like qualities and can pull roughly the same amount of G's as the Tutor. It will also be able to provide the finesse that the Snowbird's show is based upon. The downside is the fact that the top speed is 316 kts, but usually aerobatics are done at under 250 kts, so it is considerably slower than the Tutor.

I just hope that when the decision is made to replace the Tutor that the bean counters speak with the Snowbird pilots to get their input. I am extremely proud of the Snowbirds and for having them as Ambassadors for the Canadian Forces. It would be a shame to see a one of a kind show change to one of speed and noise.

Cheers

RCR
http://www.learning-to-fly.com

[Old Dog Flying]

I was based at YMJ when the Snowbirds were first formed in 1971 and had a ring side seat in the tower for numerous shows until I retired from the air force in 1976. Even though the Tutor is now more than 45 years old it is still a great little aircraft to fly...and I managed to get lots of time in it.

I did a tongue-in-cheek right-up on a modelling website for a replacement for the Tutor...

[SAR_YQQ]

One should also mention: they don't have TC issued liscenses?

We don't have licenses at all...

We also have our rules and regs.

[AuxBatOn]

RCR, I do agree with you that the Harvard II would make a better airplane from a pilot point of view. However, from a public point-of-view, a turboprop will just disapoint them. I've flown with the Snowbirds and know some of their pilots very well and all agree that a jet is required for the public to fully appreciate the team.

[no name]

It would go something like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lQkb8ZarAc

I have to ask why does everyone go to the inventory available in Moose Jaw for training? Wouldn't the CF have to buy or lease 11 (and some spares) new aircraft?

[Old Dog Flying]

A proposal was sent to NDHQ by a company that offered to buy, refurbish and lease back 20 Hawks for the same funding that is being spent on the operation of the Tutor...but what happened to that?

As for any study done by anyone up on the hill at Simon Fraser U...that bunch of airheads should have a MUTE mode implanted on their first day on the hill so that they cannot disrupt anything!

[Hedley]

It would be nice if the aircraft had some Canadian connection.
And I understand some people want to contract it out to the
private sector.

To that end, I would suggest four F-86 Sabres and two CF-104
Starfighters, all built by Canadair. Heck, there are is already
a team with 2 (3?) F-104's, all they need is a contract and a
paint scheme:

http://www.starfighters.net/Aircraft_Home.html

You could do a VERY nice show with 4 Sabres and two -104's.
The slower Sabres would fill the center while the pair of -104's
did high speed passes, both in formation and opposing. The
formation of all six would be quite a sight!