N999LJ Learjet 60 crashes on departure in SC . . .

[robbreid]

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NTSB ADVISORY
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National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

September 20, 2008

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NTSB LAUNCHES TEAM TO INVESTIGATE BUSINESS JET CRASH IN
SOUTH CAROLINA

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The National Transportation Safety Board has dispatched a Go
Team to investigate the crash of a business jet at Columbia
Metropolitan Airport in West Columbia, South Carolina.

The Learjet 60 (N999LJ) crashed on take-off at 11:53 p.m.
EDT on Friday. Of the six people on board, two crewmembers
and two passengers were fatally injured.

NTSB Senior Air Safety Investigator Bill English has been
designated as Investigator-in-Charge. NTSB Board Member
Debbie Hersman will serve as principal spokesman during the
on-scene investigation.

The Safety Board's 11-member team includes two
representatives from the Office of Transportation Disaster
Assistance. Peter Knudson will accompany the team as press
officer.

[Mclovin]

Apparently according to CNN the two survivors are DJ AM and Travis Barker former drummer from Blink 182. Hopefully the survivors make a speedy recovery, and condolenses to the families of the deceased.

[George Taylor]

Here's the link from cnn....
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/0 ... index.html

[sky's the limit]

Nasty accident, sounds like the two survivors are pretty badly burnt. One can only hope they pull through.


stl

[boeingboy]

It's amazing anyone survived.

[Tim]

Does every passenger seat/couch have a safety restraint on a bus jet?

[robbreid]

Yes, every seat has a restraint.

There are certainly questions about what this lear was up to, during the week prior to this crash, as you can see from its filed flight plan???
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N999 ... /KTEB/KTEB

Click Here for updates and news video.

CVR was recovered in this accident.

Most memorable Lear crash to date, was a Lear 55 N57TA during a demo flight in South Africa attempted unsuccessfully' a barrel roll at 155 knots and at 690 feet!!!

Note; there are 3 Lear 55's, and 7 Lear 60's operating in Canada.

[learcapt]

Lear 55 and 60 are two completely different aircraft. This aircraft was a 60XR.

Very sad, and it will be interesting to find out what happened.

[robbreid]

The Associated Press

WEST COLUMBIA, S.C.

The doomed crew piloting a Learjet that crashed on takeoff, killing four people and injuring two popular musicians, thought a tire blew as they hurtled down the runway and struggled unsuccessfully to stop the plane, a federal safety official said Sunday.

National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said a cockpit voice recording of the Friday night crash indicates the crew tried to abort the takeoff, but then signaled the efforts were failing.

"The crew reacted to a sound that was consistent with a tire blowout," Hersman said.

Flying Magazine Lear 60XR write-up

[duplicate2]

Lear 55 and 60 are two completely different aircraft. This aircraft was a 60XR.

That's overstating it a little, seeing as the 60 is just an improved 55.

[learcapt]

duplicate...do you or have you flown a 55, 60 or a 60 XR. I fly both the 60 and 60XR. The 55 is shorter than the 60, different engine manufacturer, totally different avionics (the 60 has fully intergrated Collins Pro Line 4), and shorter range. Not even close. The 60XR on the other hand is the same airframe as the 60, but has Collins pro Line 21 avionics, and all else is the same except for an additional disc on the brakes.

Take care.

[FICU]

I believe the 55 and 60 use the same airframe but the 60 has a plug to extend it so essentially the same aircraft.

I had a highspeed tire problem in a Learjet 35 departing YXD years back... heard a very loud bang but continued the take-off. When we landed the tire tread had completely delaminated and was left on the runway. The underside of the flap had a nice dent but still functioned normally. A testament to the strength of the tires was that the carcrass was till intact with full air pressure, even after the scrubbing on landing.

[learcapt]

same fuselage, with a plug correct, but not the same aircraft, for reasons stated.

Must have been a blowout at a very high speed thats for sure. Terrible accident

[the_professor]

same fuselage, with a plug correct, but not the same aircraft, for reasons stated.

Must have been a blowout at a very high speed thats for sure. Terrible accident

Directed at this or any other Lear pilot: What would the effect of a blown tire have on your ability to stop for a rejected takeoff at V1 or below? What braking assumptions are built into the type of balanced field requirements (Part 135?) that this flight would presumably have been subject to?

[cmadude]

"Directed at this or any other Lear pilot: What would the effect of a blown tire have on your ability to stop for a rejected takeoff at V1 or below? What braking assumptions are built into the type of balanced field requirements (Part 135?) that this flight would presumably have been subject to? "

There are no provisions for any aircraft that i know of for balance field performance with a blown tire. Especially at V1. Study in states is 58% of all aircraft incidents or accidents on RTO's are result of non emergency items not from engine related problems...that is high. The pilot previous that heard a loud bang and continued his take-off..bravo for excellent pilot decision making. What burns MY ass is some training pilots out there say at V1 if u have LOTS of runway you could do a possible abort. eg: 10,000 ft runway. V1 is V1..fly away for another day. This last accident im sure had a balance field of 5000 ft roughly on a 8,600 ft length, not enough runway when u lose a tire at V1.

[robbreid]

NTSB member Debbie Hersman has said pieces of tire were recovered about 2,800 feet from where the plane started its takeoff down the 8,600-foot runway. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. manufactured the tires on the Learjet, the company said Monday.

AP News Release

[Rubberbiscuit]

Truly sad, and my thoughts are with all friends and relatives first of all.

I am with you CAT. I have had the benefit of having a blown tire at V1 in the sim and I can say first hand that the decision to continue takes some dicipline. If the tire explodes it will undoubtedly startle you and the natural initial reaction of any pilot will be to want to remain on mother earth. At V1 the decision is however already made for you....... unless "the pilot deem the aircraft uncontrollable or unfit for flight". I continued the take-off, but can see how some someone could become overwhelmingly concerned with the aircraft's suitability for flight. Despite Air France's Concorde disaster the odds of a happy ending are significantly greater if continuing the take-off after a blown tire at V1. I am not passing judgment and will let the investigators make their conclusions.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I didn't make that post it was some someone that calls himself CMA dude.

[sky's the limit]

I didn't make that post it was some someone that calls himself CMA dude.

You've achieved "brand" status around here... we should retire that avatar...lol


stl

[Cat Driver]

He had better watch out or he will be on the short end of the stick when some of the regulars who jump on a lot of my posts start thinking he is me.

[BoostedNihilist]

He had better watch out or he will be on the short end of the stick when some of the regulars who jump on a lot of my posts start thinking he is me.

Poor fella

[Rubberbiscuit]

Oops! My sincere apologies .. I just saw a cat swinging at me and didn't think twice about it........ obviously!!!

[Cat Driver]

[robbreid]

WIS 10 News Videos helicopter view of runway and crash site video. Police dash cam video of crash site moments after crash.

[duplicate2]

duplicate...do you or have you flown a 55, 60 or a 60 XR. I fly both the 60 and 60XR. The 55 is shorter than the 60, different engine manufacturer, totally different avionics (the 60 has fully intergrated Collins Pro Line 4), and shorter range. Not even close. The 60XR on the other hand is the same airframe as the 60, but has Collins pro Line 21 avionics, and all else is the same except for an additional disc on the brakes.

Take care.

I suppose this would come down to your definition of "completely different". In any case, since your original comment seemed to be related to robreid's mention of the number of 55s and 60s in Canada, I was thinking in terms of common system elements between the two types that may be relevant to this crash, which would be quite a few (not to mention with multiple other Learjet models).