Question for Long Haul Drivers.

[AZN 027]

I am wondering how your body deals with the many time changes that your job requires of you.

Do certain destinations have longer layovers allowing your body to catch up?

Do the crew planners plan the pairings to avoid pilot fatigue?



I always hear guys saying they'll never fly long haul because its extremely fatiguing and your body pays a price for it.

Is this true today?

[Rockie]

No
No
Yes

[babybus]

Do certain destinations have longer layovers allowing your body to catch up?

Yes at AC some layovers go up to 72 hours plus.I find I never adapt when away from home so the longer the layover, the longer I feel out of whack.I tend to prefer the 24 hour layovers so the impact of jetlag is less.(for me anyway)

Do the crew planners plan the pairings to avoid pilot fatigue?

I always hear guys saying they'll never fly long haul because its extremely fatiguing and your body pays a price for it.

It always has and always will be fatiguing.I find longhaul varies with each pairing.Some Europe trips take off around 1900 and arrive 7 hours later or 200 am my time and that's real easy.
The ones that take off at 2300 are another story.It really depends if you are able to nap at home and how many you do a month.I am fortunate that my acft does both longhaul and domestic so 2 longhauls a month and 2 domestic cycles and I feel fine.
More than that I really feel at 75% for a day or two after I return home.
The positive is that longhaul gives you the opportunity to see some really neat places and for that it's worth trying for a few years.

By the way a lot of the short-haul domestic stuff was in my opinion just as hard if not harder.
I can think of 0515 am departures out of YYT to YYZ then a LGA turn.Or the red eyes from YVR-YYC-LAX-LAS-etc...to YYZ and YUL or double ORD turns with wheels up times on every leg.

[AuxBatOn]

Just something that has always worked for me. If I'm not staying at least a number of days equal to the number of time zones I just travelled, I won't try to adapt (ie: I'll go to bed at 22h30 my home time, wake up at 06h00 my home time, etc) It may not be always possible, but if it is, it has always worked to reduce the fatigue induced by the Jetlag. If I'm staying longer than the number of time zones, I will try to adapt my body clock to where I am.

[yycflyguy]

I have a different philosophy. You see, I have the face of a princess and princess needs her beauty sleep. Although I dont do any flying longer than 6 hours, whenever I do red-eyes I just try to sleep when I can, for as long as I can... cuz all of this needs its beauty sleep.

[Lost in Saigon]

The length of the layover has nothing to do with pilot fatigue. It is only based on aircraft utilization.

Most daily flights get a 24 hour layover because if there is only 1 flight per day, there is no other way to do it.

Some destinations require the aircraft to sit on the ground for a certain period of time due to curfew restrictions. Then a layover could be something like 33 hours . (Sao Paulo or Tel Aviv)

If the flight doesn't go daily, then you can have a 48 or even 72 hour layover. In the "Old" days, there were sometimes 6 day layovers because the flight only went once a week.

[Rebel]

In the "Old" days, there were sometimes 6 day layovers because the flight only went once a week.

Yep it’s surprising how senior the long layovers went. No one wanted to get displaced off them, way too much fun…

Long layovers taking place on the other side of the world also provided a reserve crew for irregular operations so everyone benefited.

[E-Flyer]

What happens when you're on one of those long layovers and then get sick 3 hours before departure? will that flight get cancelled or are there reserves in each destination? cause if the flight wouldn't be cancelled it would at least be delayed by a lot of hours to fly in another pilot? the original pilot might even get better by the time the extra is flown in and is well rested.

Wondering how that would work

[Lost in Saigon]

There is no reserve available in most destinations. Some places like London have other crews laying over and you can rob a crew member. (if you can find them in time).

Other times the flight is delayed so that the inbound crew can get a min rest and then operate the same aircraft back while they deadhead in a new crew.

Occaionally the flight is just cancelled.

[Rebel]

What happens when you're on one of those long layovers and then get sick 3 hours before departure? will that flight get cancelled or are there reserves in each destination? cause if the flight wouldn't be cancelled it would at least be delayed by a lot of hours to fly in another pilot? the original pilot might even get better by the time the extra is flown in and is well rested.

Wondering how that would work

It’s not as complicated it first appears as crew scheduling does draft crews from other layover cities if that’s the most efficient way of keeping the aircraft on schedule. I have been drafted on arrival in Delhi to stand reserve until the flight departed 10 hours later because of morning departure weather problems The scheduled operating crew could run out of duty time because of the long leg to LON if weather delayed so the company covers itself. My HK layovers have been interrupted for extra sections for another carrier on the overnight aircraft. Everything is the same except the call sign. In bound pilots have on occasion been asked to carry on to the next station in order to cover a sick layover crewmember. I could go with my personal experiences but as you can see there are all sorts of scenarios that can and do occur so nothing is black and white. Finding pilots on layovers can be a problem but in theory pilots are suppose to advise crew scheduling if they plan to be away from their layover hotel but in reality they rarely do.

Perhaps in the future we will see dual competency on the 767/777 or 777/787 aircraft, which would make for better pilot utilization, anything is possible. Also no one has mentioned it, but most long haul pilots develop competency problems over time because of so few legs. It would be ideal if the type of aircraft would allow a mix of legs at least on occasion. Practice makes perfect after all.