Chinese flight students grounded in N.L.

[Donald]

I hope this isn't another CASA situation...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-l ... dents.html

Chinese flight students grounded in N.L.
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 | 8:44 AM NT Comments5Recommend24CBC News
Twenty-one students from China are caught in academic limbo in a central Newfoundland town after their flight classes were halted months ago without explanation.

The students, in Gander for pilot lessons at Gander Flight Training, told CBC News they didn't want to be interviewed because they're worried about upsetting Maylan Flight Academy, the company that's paying their rent at an apartment building in the town.

One student, who gave the name Jackie, said the students don't know much about what caused their classes to stop in June.

"We just know the training was stopped," he said.

Some students said they believe there was some sort of problem with the contract between Gander Flight Training and Maylan Flight Academy, or with their visas, which allow them to study and stay in Canada.

Although the students haven't been in the air since the spring, Maylan Flight Academy continues to pay their rent and $10 a day for food.

They said they have no direct contact with anyone at Maylan Flight Academy, and all the information they get comes from the school in Gander. They told CBC News they believe the owner of Maylan Flight Academy is in China — or London, Ont. They aren't sure.

CBC News could not reach the owner of Maylan Flight Academy, which operates flight schools in Ontario.

Patrick White, president of Gander Flight Training, declined comment.

Gander Flight Training markets itself to international students on its website, boasting a centralized location and the opportunity for students to learn to fly in all weather conditions.

While the Chinese students wait to hear what their flight training future will be, they say they're enjoying their time in Gander and they fill the days with swimming, basketball, and working on their English.

"They hear the problem will be straightened out soon," Jackie said.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Although the students haven't been in the air since the spring, Maylan Flight Academy continues to pay their rent and $10 a day for food.

What is wrong with that, these are probably the new flight instructor pool and the 10 dollars a day for food is part of learning how to live on the wages they will be paid as instructors.

[Invertago]

Ahhh Maylan.... curious what they're up to now in London and Dunnville?

[2R]

Those poor guys trying to learn engrish where none is spoken
eh bouy

[Stevo226]

heard an ELT going off this morning, heard through the grapevine it was Maylan's sitting on the ramp and a Hurc ended up flying in. that's gotta be expensive

[MichaelP]

They have gone from the impossibility of flying in China to the impossibility of flying in Canada.
It does not look good for us; Canada will lose face in Asia and this is bad for future business.

Are there enough instructors available to teach them, and are those instructors willing to stay?

I witnessed first hand the chaos in China... They had enough instructors with more coming but the airspace restrictions, pollution, and bad management caused a lot of really good talented instructors to leave.

Here in Canada, management is not always the best, pay for instructors is poor, and this often leads to failure.
Even with rent paid, $10 a day for food is probably insufficient with the Gander winter just around the corner.
The whole thing seems like under investment, or perhaps over estimation.

Canada has a huge opportunity to be the world's best training place, but there's got to be a huge change in attitude and competence to achieve it.

[Bushav8er]

I can't believe that Canada and the US haven't caught on to this one....China is the largest remaining Communist country and we are supposed to believe that all these students will be going back to China for General Aviation and Corporate flying?? Dah! we are doing their Basic Military Flight Training and disregarding the language issue...oh but the temporary income (to the flight schools) is great....was great...China has now set up its own flight school, in London, so it even gets revenue back now!

Largest population on the planet, growing wealth and economy, largest, growing, demand for oil and an increase in the number of people 'learning to fly' - do the math! Keep your eyes open or start learning Chinese.

[bose]

hi bushav8er i think maybe you been in bush too long and not see reality very clear!!! but anyways your post funny and make me smile!

[flyinggreasemonkey]

Been watching Red Dawn back to back for a while, have ya bush?

All I have to say is that this is maylan in a nutshell.

[2R]

I can't believe that Canada and the US haven't caught on to this one....China is the largest remaining Communist country and we are supposed to believe that all these students will be going back to China for General Aviation and Corporate flying?? Dah! we are doing their Basic Military Flight Training and disregarding the language issue...oh but the temporary income (to the flight schools) is great....was great...China has now set up its own flight school, in London, so it even gets revenue back now!

Largest population on the planet, growing wealth and economy, largest, growing, demand for oil and an increase in the number of people 'learning to fly' - do the math! Keep your eyes open or start learning Chinese.

No need to learn a foreign language as most inteligent people speak english. The ones who do not speak english usually do not have anything that would be of any interest to listen to anyway .Leave them to fester

[Invertago]

No need to learn a foreign language as most inteligent people speak english. The ones who do not speak english usually do not have anything that would be of any interest to listen to anyway .Leave them to fester

I thought most intelligent English speakers spelled it "intelligent" with two l's. But then again I'm just ESL so what do I know?

[flyinggreasemonkey]

I wonder if, in his infinite knowledge, the Dunnville GM has wrapped his pea brain around the fact that the Canada Labour Code is LAW...not a suggestion. Knowing him, he still probably thinks that aviation follows provincial laws...

[Invertago]

I wonder if, in his infinite knowledge, the Dunnville GM has wrapped his pea brain around the fact that the Canada Labour Code is LAW...not a suggestion. Knowing him, he still probably thinks that aviation follows provincial laws...

Sounds like you left Maylan with a bitter taste in your mouth, I ran from there with in 48 hours of setting foot in Dunnville. Surprised they haven't killed anyone yet, though I guess given the background, if someone dies, you have 2.1 billion replacements to take their job. Chinese business practices cut a lot of corners, it is scary. I think I'll go have a nice glass of pure untainted Canadian milk.

[flyinggreasemonkey]

Yep, but the bitter taste made my new job that much sweeter.

It all gets deeper than the issues with the Gander students though. They were refused service by the on-site fuel provider and the AMO for the dunnville location for not paying their bill. Word was that they owed $22,000 to the fuel provider at one point.

Not to mention stupid shit like operating day VFR after dark and a student getting so pissed of at his instructor that he tried to get out of the plane on final. TC made a house call on that one. Hmm what else....student runs plane off the runway and it didn't get reported....student cutting off a Citation because she called the wrong runway in the circuit....instructors taxiing at running speed with barely inches to spare from other planes.

Yeah....unfortunately someone is gonna die there.

[. ._]

Been watching Red Dawn back to back for a while, have ya bush?

All I have to say is that this is maylan in a nutshell.

WOLVERINES!!!

[sirtate]

Been watching Red Dawn back to back for a while, have ya bush?

All I have to say is that this is maylan in a nutshell.

WOLVERINES!!!

ahhh, patrick swayze at his least....

[MichaelP]

Canada Labour Code is LAW

No it isn't... A few years ago I had this discussion with a senior person from ATAC who was upset with me for saying anything about it.
ATAC has apparently agreed with the authorities that instructors are an exception to the minimum wage laws.
I was told that Canada would not be competitive in the world if its instructors were paid properly.

I quit instructing and took an inane job working around film sets... Parking cars pays five times as much as the flying school I worked at then.
I took a pay reduction again, because this is what I do, and went to China to teach... But the culture in that school in China was horrible and I never want to work for Americans again!
I had no issues with the Chinese, friendly for the most part, it was the unseen military and some of the controllers that weren't always friendly.
The Chinese thought competence came from the USA, they were wrong.
The most competent people are right here in Canada and they deserve a break.

[Invertago]

The most competent people are right here in Canada and they deserve a break.

And that in a nutshell is why there is an instructor shortage.

The good news is, less instructors = less students trained = less future pilots = better pilot job market.

The down side is fewer and fewer people entering general aviation for fun.

[MichaelP]

The down side is fewer and fewer people entering general aviation for fun.

I think that there is a bigger reason than the implied one...
Canadians are a more serious bunch of people than they were thirty years ago, and somewhat poorer generally.
The effect of the media can not be over emphasised... There is a lack of fun on the television these days.
I am sad that there are too few people who want to fly little aeroplanes for the fun of it... Perhaps political correctness has too many people trying to justify their human desires.

This morning the news was discussing the number of people who throw themselves off the Lionsgate Bridge... Canada has a high suicide rate and is it any wonder when you see such misery on the news. Television programs promote the police and people being nasty to each other... There's few light hearted things to watch, it's all very deadly serious.

I flew for 18 years as a Private Pilot in a large number of aircraft. I had a regular job at BAe and in the summer I flew to France, Germany, and Switzerland in whichever aeroplane I got out of the hangar first.
I had passion, and people who fly with me today will agree as we joyfully barrel around the sky.

Canada is different... People don't have the holiday entitlement the Brits and Europeans have... The accent is much more on work work, and long hours of work.
I could not put up with the stuff my brothers have put up with working regular jobs here!

Whereas, I earn not that much teaching people to fly, it is fun most of the time, and it is living to the full.
If all you can take from this life is the things you have seen, the people you have met, and the learning you have done, then flying is among the best experiences any life could have.

Coming back to a place bereft of joy, with the pub closing at 10:00, and an unmarked police car patrolling the empty streets on New Year's Eve stunned me...
We have got to change this... In spite of the misery other places in this World have people who are full of life regardless of their circumstance.

OK we don't get paid enough, perhaps that will change, but let's put on a smile and enjoy what we do... We'll attract more people that way.

[Invertago]

This morning the news was discussing the number of people who throw themselves off the Lionsgate Bridge...

They want to fly, but can't afford to rent an aircraft.


(Not to be callous or steal the thread but wouldn't you rather see the money proposed for the anti-suicide net be used to save those who actually want to live... like give it to the children's hospital?)

[Minimums]

darn commies, fit right in with them fellers from deer lake now don't they bye

[Minimums]

want to fly but can't afford to fly? Thats like spending 10 bucks in gas to get to a restraunt to eat, and not having any money left over to eat with? Either don't go to begin with or start walkin

[MichaelP]

start walkin

I did exactly that... sold my Austin A40 for £10 with its bad gearbox, took the train to Exeter and walked to the airport to learn to fly.

You can do most things if you have enough will...
Today, owning a car is more important to 19 year olds like me... Sometimes you have to give something up to get what you really want.
Now as then it is half the price learning to fly in Canada rather than in England.

It would be interesting to compare the sale of Cox 049s in the 1970s with today.
Most kids don't know what a Cox 049 is...
It is the engine that a lot of us learned about aeroplanes with...
Now they even simulate flying model aeroplanes on the computer and you don't have to go outside, run across a lot of property, and actually have to get the glue out afterwards... Not to sniff it!

[Panama Jack]

I can't believe that Canada and the US haven't caught on to this one....China is the largest remaining Communist country and we are supposed to believe that all these students will be going back to China for General Aviation and Corporate flying?? Dah! we are doing their Basic Military Flight Training and disregarding the language issue...oh but the temporary income (to the flight schools) is great....was great...China has now set up its own flight school, in London, so it even gets revenue back now!

Largest population on the planet, growing wealth and economy, largest, growing, demand for oil and an increase in the number of people 'learning to fly' - do the math! Keep your eyes open or start learning Chinese.

I had no idea that there were Conservative Republican crackpots in Canada.

Canada is different... People don't have the holiday entitlement the Brits and Europeans have... The accent is much more on work work, and long hours of work.
I could not put up with the stuff my brothers have put up with working regular jobs here!

Whereas, I earn not that much teaching people to fly, it is fun most of the time, and it is living to the full.
If all you can take from this life is the things you have seen, the people you have met, and the learning you have done, then flying is among the best experiences any life could have.

Coming back to a place bereft of joy, with the pub closing at 10:00, and an unmarked police car patrolling the empty streets on New Year's Eve stunned me...
We have got to change this... In spite of the misery other places in this World have people who are full of life regardless of their circumstance.

I enjoyed reading your observation. I tell whoever is willing to listen that the only thing keeping me working for my current employer is that Thai Airways doesn't hire foreign pilots.

[niss]

It would be interesting to compare the sale of Cox 049s in the 1970s with today.
Most kids don't know what a Cox 049 is...

Mmmmm the smell of burning alcohol fuel. nice oily exhaust. Damn near lost my fingers to that little .049. God Damn did those things have thrust!