Turning down training?

[Lommer]

Hi all, I'm in a tough spot. I'm planning on moving to a new company in the new year, its a significantly better position than my current gig, but isn't 100% finalized yet. My current employer has treated me fairly well, but I've put in my time so I don't feel bad about moving on. However, my current employer wants to send me for some training in December. It's not a flightsafety course or anything worth really big money, but its probably a couple thousand bucks at least. I don't want to take the training, and then up and leave within a month, but I also don't want to tip my hand about moving on in case that falls through.

So how do I handle the situation? I think my first tactic will be to try and delay the training whatever reason I can find in the hopes that new job will be finalized before it comes up. I can't be the first person in this situation, so I'm looking for any suggestions on other ways to handle the situation politically. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance...

[Tibor]

Maybe tell your current employer the truth, that you may be moving on in a bit, and maybe he'll train you up regardless because a) he needs someone immediatly, and 2) he thinks you deserve it anyway, and iii) he may gamble and hope your new job doesnt come through.....

I wouldnt bank on the new job, cause as it happens a lot in aviation, dont believe it till you have your first pay check/the new airplane is on the ramp. Theres been a lot af times where people have gone on course with a new company, or same company but new plane, and get a call a week or 2 in that the position is no longer around.

my 3 cents...(3 cause i just got a raise!!!!)

[Bank Angle]

Let me start by saying kudos to your professionalism and thoughtfulness. Most people wouldn't even consider turning down training even if they had a confirmed job offer around the corner. However, in this day and age and with the current downturn in the industry I would never turn down or postpone any training you can get. Nothing is a sure thing in this business. I know of one person who gave his notice to my current company, only to find out that his "confirmed" new job would no longer be there for him as the employer did not take delivery of the aircraft he was supposed to fly, and then when he tried to come back to us we could not take him back because the bean counters said we were already overstaffed. He went from having a secure job one day with another "sure thing" on the table to being out on the street the next!

So my suggestion to you is take the training. Then if and when you do decide to move on in short notice and feel bad about it, talk to your current employer and see if you can make a deal to repay them in one form or another. If they are reasonable and recognize the time you have put in with them they may say "sorry to lose you, but don't worry about it," or they may ask for some mutually agreed REASONABLE financial compensation, or worst case scenario you leave on bad terms. However, you can't predict the future and have to look out for number one first. If they have treated you well so far and can't imagine it would change much. I payed one of my former employers $1000 for training when I left after only a few months and on short notice. In my case it was in my contract and a bit excessive for the training I received, but at the same time I was moving to a better paying job and felt bad for leaving so soon.

I hope this helps and good luck with both the training and the new job!

[Bank Angle]

Maybe tell your current employer the truth

I wouldn't talk to your current employer about moving on until you give notice. In my experience, I have never seen anything good coming out of that no matter how good the employer. You may lose out on the promotion AND not get the new job either. Assume you are staying and take every opportunity that is offered to you until the day you leave, then if necessary negotiate reasonable compensation to be able to leave on good terms. Always try to avoid burning bridges as this is a very small industry and you never know when you might need an old contact again!

[rotorfloat]

I'd have to agree with Bank Angle.

Not an aviation job, but I thought I'd be thoughtful and let an employer know that I planned on moving on and will still give 2 weeks notice. For this, I was dismissed for "threat of resignation without a specific date"

I don't know if it was legal or not, but I got my 2 weeks+vacation pay and was happy.

[xsbank]

I'm usually one that councels integrity and ethics, 'hoping' that I will be treated similarly. After what I heard today at work, f*ck 'em, take the training. Give him adequate notice but nothing more. You would get tossed at the first downturn if necessary as we are talking business here, not marriage.

[Invertago]

Hmmm a bond... maybe the new company could give you a reverse bond along the lines of if you quit current job to sign on with us and we can no longer provide said job, we owe you $X. Or do bonds only work against the employee... what industry am I in again?

[polar one]

Maybe tell your current employer the truth,

What a novel idea! Surprises me the thread did not get locked up for such a comment. Remember, if you screw your present employer, long after the rationalizations, you have to get up in the morning and see yourself in the mirror.

Tell them that you are planning to move on. Most employeres, if they are good people will appreciate the thought and go through the options with you. If you are a good employee you will n ot get fired. I know several pilots flying at the majors that did exactly this and none of them were fired for it. In fact, in one case, the employer went ahead with the training.
But be honest with yourself. You are trying to have it both ways at the possilbe expense fo another person...you can minimize that by calling them an employer etc. but it is the simple truth.

Now, as employers might be reading this, it may happen that anyone scheduled for training in the next few months gets asked to sign a bond.....one of the hazards of posting on a public forum

My thoughts.

[HuD 91gt]

I was in the exact same situation as you. Rather then sim training, it was to be PPC'd on another type of aircraft. I didn't really know how long I was staying for as I have had an interview, and it seemed to have gone fairly well(Or so I was told). My manager took it well, understood my situation and that was the end of it. I said I would let them know of any updates on my situation. Simple as that. They are now hiring outside of the company to fill that position. I still have a job, I believe i'm still well respected.

[Old fella]

Remember that Bachman/Turner song: I'am lookin out for number one......

In my time and it has been long: look out for yourself - nobody else will!

OF

[polar one]

Yes I remember the song.

I also remember being taught "to do unto others......"

[North Shore]

You know your employer better than all of us, so you'll have some idea as to how s/he is going to react, depending on the various scenarios..

Personally, I'd be pretty leery of moving onto another job in the current economy, unless it is rock solid. For that reason, I'd take extra care to make sure that my departure was as graceful as possible, just in case I needed to return. That being said, my inclination would be to see if you can push back the date of the training until after you find out about the second job. However, that is really a win of a coin toss over being up front with your boss about your situation. Again, you will probably have a better idea of how they will react - do you have to deal with a single person (good, IMHO) or a HR department(worse)? A distant third place is to keep your mouth shut, take the training and then leave.

Also:

Let me start by saying kudos to your professionalism and thoughtfulness. Most people wouldn't even consider turning down training even if they had a confirmed job offer around the corner.

+1

[Cat Driver]

I also remember being taught "to do unto others......"

That seems to have gone the way of the Dodo bird in todays world.

[jamesbay]

Yeah, how does the underlying read these days?....screw others before they screw you.

[Odysseus]

I'd say take the trainning, even if you're almost certain to move on. Worse case senario, you're current boss will be pissed at you, but you won't care since you'll be working for someone else. If you end up passing up on the trainning and telling him the truth, chances are you'll be passed over for any promotions coming your way; and that could really hurt you if you don't get the job you're hoping for. No matter how nice your boss is, business is business; I don't know many pilots who can say they have never been layed off when the flight line is suddenly "overstaffed".

[buss]

I was in the exact same situation a while back. My ppc was due for renewal and I was "most likely" moving on within a couple weeks. I told my employer the situation and suggested an extension to my ppc to save some company cash. They thought about the offer trained me anyway and I helped out in the sim as fill in for a few rides.
Anyway, after a couple years at the new job I decided it wasn't for me. I was able to get a reference letter from the first company which I believe firmed up a job offer. I'm happy where I am and truly can say what goes around comes around. Try the truth. It may come back in spades.

[Dockjock]

Integrity is one thing, but blind loyalty at the potential expense of you and your family's future is stupid. There are no points for being nice, and a reference letter is worth less than you probably think.

Small airline managers aren't (all) stupid, they know damn well that 90% of us didn't get into this business so we could fly a Navajo for the rest of our lives. Or a king air, or a B1900, or whatever on up the line. If no sim course is involved, I assume we're talking fairly small equipment here. No matter what the circumstances, no rational person can fault someone for taking a bigger and better opportunity than one they themselves can offer. It is the natural cycle of a career- people leave for other jobs.

The safest and smartest course of action is to take anything that's offered, and apologize profusely if you end up leaving. Sincereity is the key, if you can fake that you're laughing.

[ragbagflyer]

I'm usually one that councels integrity and ethics, 'hoping' that I will be treated similarly. After what I heard today at work, f*ck 'em, take the training. Give him adequate notice but nothing more. You would get tossed at the first downturn if necessary as we are talking business here, not marriage.

What did you hear at work xs?

[Pugster]

Serious judgement call.

I advised my previous employer when I interviewed for my current job - but they were excellent people and I knew it going in. The response was a "it'll be bad to lose you" and they actually tried to up the ante a bit to retain me.

I've also worked at places where I wouldn't dare tell them that I was even looking as I would be promptly let go or (as was the case once) denied promotion.

Ultimately ask yourself the question - are you a valued employee or a business liability to them? If the answer is the latter, I wouldn't hesitate in taking the training and staying silent. Chances are since you're asking the question in the first place this isn't the case - and I'd probably advise them very carefully. No sense shooting yourself in the foot.

Good luck.

[ipilot54]

All I can say is WOW! Integrity appears to have vanished.

But let me tell you a little true story….once upon a time there is this pilot. We trained him and since he was to be right seat on a SEL turbine and he assured us he would be here for “years”, we didn’t bother with a bond, contract or ??? Three weeks later he leaves with NO notice to fly with another company…on the same type.

Three full years go by and we forget all about him and then one day, AC (head of recruitment actually) calls the Chief Pilot (me) and asks about little “Johnny”. Man; he worked here three years ago so I say I have to go back into the archives to dig up his file. I find his file and... oh yeah; it is all coming back to me now. In the subsequent call, the FIRST QUESTION was, “I see he was with you for a very short period of time, was he a contract pilot?” I answer, “no”. Next question, “why did he leave?” I say, “that is a good question…grass is greener?” (a chuckle from the other end of the phone line) The next question was, “did he give you proper notice?” My answer; “no, he gave no notice at all”.

AC says, “thanks; that all I needed to know”. We then chit-chatted for a minute about the industry is going.

The questions asked by AC were answered correctly and to the point. This is exactly how the conversation went. Normal calls from AC follow a regimented form but these did not. I can only guess in this case, the alarm bells were already ringing on this guy and you can bet that he did NOT use me as a reference.

Tell your employer the truth…you might be surprised.

[Cat Driver]

When society gets to the point that people question whether integrity is a asset or a liability we are in deep trouble as a society.

From the previous story about the Air Canada questions it would appear that the Air Canada recruitment person was interested in the integrity issue.

So we still have some who do look for integrity in a prospective employee.

[xsbank]

This is really not me talking, but how many guys are currently laid off? Unexpectedly, I mean? I don't mean from seasonal jobs, but laid off for other reasons? I know Cargojet just tossed some of our lot, anyone else?

I ask this because I overheard (oops, my bad) my employer talking to a manager and I heard something that made a mockery of ethics and integrity on their side. I thought I had a great employer, one of the best, but it seems that business over-rides personnel concerns, always (well, almost always). Let's hear from the other side?