Police cars at Fast Air

[warner]

there is no doubt that TC does not handle/paint all the same "bad " companies with the same brush, it has never ceased to amaze me how they can interpet one rule for one company and yet another company, same fault mind you is treated with perhaps a more lenient attitude, I well remember the Links (RZ) time in business and the pilot's/ame revolving door gong show and I actually had the pleasure of dealing with some of those people, good bunch I thought, Integra air and the scaming puntz's there, and of course there is the famous Sonic Blue, if anyone can figure out the TC rationale across Canada and what the agenda may be for the travelling public to resolve these outstanding issues ?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

if anyone can figure out the TC rationale across Canada and what the agenda may be for the travelling public to resolve these outstanding issues ?

The problems within the regulator are probably beyond fixing, at least not without a complete restructuring of how the regulator is run.

Getting rid of the sociopaths in their ranks would be a good start.

Having consistency from region to region with regard to how they oversee the industry has to be put into effect.

But without any accountability for their actions nothing will ever change.

Having spent a lot of time seeing how they operate behind their closed doors and seen how erratic they make decisions and stick to them regardless of how stupid they are has made me thankful my only contact with them is here on Avcanada.

[sonic]

Didn't 3 AMEs quit Fast Air on the same day earlier this year?

One DOM was let go, one AME was let go, and his best friend quit the next week, and has done his best to slander the company to anyone who will listen since.

It's not knee jerk TC had been looking at Fast Airs AMO since early summer

Fast Air had a routine, SCHEDULED, visit from TC in early June.

pilot350 wrote:
Not meaning to drag Fast Air's name through the mud but we fired our director of maintenance recently because the owner said he was fixing to many parts plus on our Medevac side our non pilot(Nurse) medevac manager always pushed the pilots on the duty times. Man we would start our duty day at 9am for example do a flight be back at base 12pm and then we would be told your good for duty till 11pm but if no call's come in your fresh at 830pm and we would do this for 7 days straight. Oh and if you argued this they would say it's legal under the CARS and then fire you so no one else would think about arguing with the nurse manager, trust me they would do this. We had a Captain here for years and decided to argue the point and got canned. So now you know why we had a accident. Honestly i'm surprised it didn't happen sooner but I'm thanking god no one got hurt. So we should get shut down cause the next accident might not be so lucky. Oh and yes 60 employee's but what's more important 60 jobs or 1 life.

Truly One Disgrundal Employee!!!

WOW...find a new place to work if your life is that miserable...they will be lucky to have you. Just make sure your spell check is on when you type up your resume.


To be fair, nobody is perfect. I remember a pilot I once knew, who raved about the fact that he had 2 years of incident free flying in the north. In fact, he was so good, he didn't even have to do his preflight checklist....until he took off with full left rudder trim...oops. But he learned his lesson....until he smoked a snowbank on a poorly executed approach...bigger oops. So you see, everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure from what I know about Fast Air, they will take their lumps with dignity.

[Check Pilot]

Cat asked:

"All I did was question if TC has used the police to enforce a warrant with Keystone."

- It wasn't required.

[ettw]

...Friday, O.C. is temporarily suspended....

I'd bet it was the old YWG "drop it in the fax machine at 3.55 pm just as you're walking out of the office for the weekend suckers!" kind of a suspension.

I agree with some of the posts that point out that most operations have some dirty laundry. I'm not suggesting that its intentional but if you realize that some thing was missed or overun and correct it immediatly for example, that should be untouchable. Unless its happening repeatedly, then its a sign of a systemic problem and your internal audit process at least should catch that. And it should be untouchable.

I do believe absolutely in the power of a good relationship with your TC inspector. I have made some mistakes over the years and TC has worked with me in all cases. I actually had 1 PMI tell me that if there was room for interpretation within the CARs (LOL...interpretation...that cracks me up!), he would ALWAYS interpret on my behalf...and he always did! He was also the PMI that signed off on the maintenance side of the OC of a startup BEFORE I had dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's because of my previous work with him. Thanks for that!

I would ask what sort of a relationship Fastair had with its TC people? If it was good then I'd be supremely pissed if they showed up with the taser wielding cops. If its a sour, adversarial relationship then TC was just hedging their position.

Cheers,

ETTW

[SKYPILOT1956]

Widow and Cat;

Friends who were once TC inspectors used police only for the initail search and acguistion of evidence.

I heard TC current m & m manager was recently brought back into an enforcement portfolio for maybe obvious reasons that have been discussed here.

Police are recruited to expidite the search and seizure proccess, The warrent is issued to a TC inspector in this case, and the police routinely do computer search and seizure that the average TC inspector would not have training or experieince with.

Widow; you are on top of the picture.

Seems reasonable to me. They weren't just going in to look at the books, they were going in to seize property - or so it seems.

CD's links show they followed their rules:

a.If entry or surrender of evidence is refused by the occupant or there are grounds to believe that entry or surrender of evidence will be refused, authorization for entry, search and seizure must be obtained through a search warrant issued pursuant to sections 487-492 of the Criminal Code;

[ProC]

To be fair, nobody is perfect. I remember a pilot I once knew, who raved about the fact that he had 2 years of incident free flying in the north. In fact, he was so good, he didn't even have to do his preflight checklist....until he took off with full left rudder trim...oops. But he learned his lesson....until he smoked a snowbank on a poorly executed approach...bigger oops. So you see, everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure from what I know about Fast Air, they will take their lumps with dignity.

What Sonic fails to explain is mistakes happen to the best of us, however I recall a certain sweaty guy who would sign out anything management wanted him to, and when his inspection times were getting high he would cut corners purposely such as glueing screws on that were stripped out ect... just to make himself look good. Mistakes happen but having no back bone is just asking for an accident.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Cat asked:

"All I did was question if TC has used the police to enforce a warrant with Keystone."

Check Pilot replied:

- It wasn't required.

Thanks Check Pilot, that was what I was wondering about....so the plot thickens.

Skypilot 1956, I am very familiar with the Aeronautics Act and also with the structure of TCCA and the rules under which they operate, the reason I put forth the questions I ask is to see if the readers of this forum can get any insight into what really happens in the background that would allow a situation to get to the place where the police would be used in an inspection of a air service.

You will note that when asking these questions I generally post in my own name, I that do that to make it clear that if I post something that could be seen to be libelous the party concerned can deal with me directly and not have to bother the owner of this forum.

For decades those in aviation have been kept in the dark with regard to what really happens in these situations, this has resulted in many cases of abuse of power by some within the regulator and just as important a lack of use of power by some within the regulator.

The internet has given us instant communication regardless of where we are and gradually there are more and more discussions going on among the members of the aviation community both inside the regulator and outside the regulator.

This can be both good and bad for the industry, however the good can outweigh the bad as long as the members strive to get at the truth.

So by asking pertinent questions I hope to eventually get to the truth, if I am unsuccessful at least I tried.

As a last comment I would like to state unequivocally that there is a systemic problem within the regulator of unequal and in some cases unlawful enforcement of the rules and their policies that is gradually driving the industry into chaos.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cha⋅os
   /ˈkeɪɒs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [key-os] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.

[hillbilly]

To be fair, nobody is perfect. I remember a pilot I once knew, who raved about the fact that he had 2 years of incident free flying in the north. In fact, he was so good, he didn't even have to do his preflight checklist....until he took off with full left rudder trim...oops. But he learned his lesson....until he smoked a snowbank on a poorly executed approach...bigger oops. So you see, everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure from what I know about Fast Air, they will take their lumps with dignity.

What Sonic fails to explain is mistakes happen to the best of us, however I recall a certain sweaty guy who would sign out anything management wanted him to, and when his inspection times were getting high he would cut corners purposely such as glueing screws on that were stripped out ect... just to make himself look good. Mistakes happen but having no back bone is just asking for an accident.

Well it is a good thing not everyone is sweaty and a invertebrate like you ProC. But I am pretty sure Fast Air is from the Family of Super Solidia. and Subphylum Vertebrata.

[sonic]

ProC wrote:
sonic wrote:
To be fair, nobody is perfect. I remember a pilot I once knew, who raved about the fact that he had 2 years of incident free flying in the north. In fact, he was so good, he didn't even have to do his preflight checklist....until he took off with full left rudder trim...oops. But he learned his lesson....until he smoked a snowbank on a poorly executed approach...bigger oops. So you see, everyone makes mistakes. I'm sure from what I know about Fast Air, they will take their lumps with dignity.


What Sonic fails to explain is mistakes happen to the best of us, however I recall a certain sweaty guy who would sign out anything management wanted him to, and when his inspection times were getting high he would cut corners purposely such as glueing screws on that were stripped out ect... just to make himself look good. Mistakes happen but having no back bone is just asking for an accident.

Actually...I think the second last line of my post says "everyone makes mistakes", so I guess maybe I didn't fail to mention that mistakes happen to the best of people.

As for your friend, it's too bad about having to cut corners. I know every time I express concern about safety to my bosses they tell me to take my time and make sure it's done right and order what's needed. Maybe suggest to him that he approach his management team respectfully and they'll listen? Just a thought. Anyhow, it sounds like he is atleast a hard worker so I'm sure he'll be ok. Thanks for the post ProC!

PS He could just use a pk screw instead. Just a trick I learned from a couple of guys I used to work with.

[Disco Stu]

So are they flying today?

[Hedley]

The warrent is issued to a TC inspector

Why would they bother? By legal precedent - and this will
remain so, until some private citizen pays the tens of thousands
of dollars to (perhaps) overturn it in Federal Court - any
Transport Inspector can break and enter into any residence
or place of business any time they want, seize anything they
want, hold on to it indefinitely without cause, and it's admissible
evidence.

Thanks, Tribunal!

I think most countries in the world would refer to such
government as a "police state".

[Cat Driver]

Just a simple question.

What other transportation businesses such as bus companies, trucking companies, boat taxis / ferries etc. are raided by the police to check their paper work?

[Hedley]

raided by the police to check their paper work?

If it were only that benign. No, what actually occurs is
that during the police raid, documents that are required
for the operation of the company are seized without
a valid warrant, and are kept without cause by the
government for a year, which refuses to return the
documents, or even make certified copies of them.

At the end of that year, when a Tribunal hearing is finally
held, the Tribunal admits the illegally-seized documents as
admissible, but the documents are actually of no legal use
to the government's persecution, er, prosection, at which
time they are returned to the now-defunct company which
has been successfully driven out of business.

As far as I can tell, the government of Canada wants all
of the citizens of Canada to be unemployed and to stay
at home all day and collect welfare and smoke crack,
because that's what "good Canadians" do.

[Cat Driver]

Yes, precisely Hedley, but the real question is how is this type of action by a federal regulator allowed in a so called democracy with a charter of rights?

Having worked for on both sides of the industry I am at a loss to understand how it has come to this.

If you have been in contravention of the rules or the law you of course will run the risk of being penalized for your actions.

However if it is the regulator who is in contrevention of the rules or the law they have an army of lawyers and different departments to stonewall any and all investigations forever, therefore they are immune to any accountability.

Ah well the rest of the bananna republics eventually resort to a revolution to get rid of their oppressors I wonder if I will live long enough to see that happen here?

[CD]

November 17, 2008

Fast Air grounded
Airline surrenders operator certificate

By PAUL TURENNE, SUN MEDIA

Winnipeg-based Fast Air voluntarily surrendered its air operator certificate on Friday, leaving the 13-year-old airline grounded.

Fast Air offered charter flights across North America and air ambulance MedEvac services in northern Manitoba, but its planes cannot fly without the certificate it turned in to Transport Canada a few days ago.

"Right now they're not flying," said Andrea Rudniski, a spokeswoman for Transport Canada. "In order for them to get that document back they'll need to demonstrate complete compliance with Canadian aviation safety regulations."

Rudniski stressed that the airline voluntarily turned in the certificate and was not ordered to do so. Although Transport Canada had already been conducting an investigation into the airline before the surrender — and still is — Fast Air has not been charged by the regulator with violating any flight regulations, Rudniski said.

A spokeswoman for Manitoba Health said there are five other air ambulance carriers in Manitoba who are spreading Fast Air's MedEvac flights around, and the province does not expect any problems as a result.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The plot thickens.

[Fox 3]

... Integra air and the scaming puntz's there...

I take offense to that statement. Care to elaborate?

~FOX~

p.s. Sorry for being completely off topic.

edit:
Never mind AW, I figured out who you are, no elaboration needed. What happened to the ALAME screen name?

[MELd]

I ask this question in a general sense, and not as it pertains to Fast Air specifically, but what is the benefit (legal or otherwise) of an operator voluntarily surrendering it's OC? Is it purely to save face?

Also, who are the other five operators providing medevac services in MB?

[Captain X]

Fast Air, Mississippi, Perimeter, Sky North, Keewatin, and The MB Govt's Life Flight.... That's all the ones I know

[Jerricho]

Seen a few Bearskin ones as well.

[KAFUFO]

Molson

[Mr. North]

+1

[2milefinal]

Unless things have changed (again) I dont think the Bear has done a medevac in about 10 years.

[airplane01]

fast air was and probably still is a good company, but they have really been on their high hourse so to speak about how great they are, and some of their upper managers take pride in over critisizing the competition. Maybe this will be wake up call for them , and they will realize that we all live in glass houses. Be carful what you say, it may come back at you in a BIG way. No company is perfect but ditsing on the competators often has a way of coming back to bite you. I hope this is a lesson learned for them.