Sunwing- Hiring Pilots from Germany

[turbo-beaver]

I have heard recently that Sunwing has gone to the CIRB and made an application to hire 40 pilots from outside Canada to operate this winter within Canada stating that as a result of their ads on AV Canada they could find few qualified applicants. Apparently these pilots are on course now.
Does anyone have any confirmation of this?

regards

[commuter]

Canjet has about 20 or so guys from a Company in Germany.
Sunwing is doing it as well.
The big thing is that they are only needed for the busy winter season and it works out well for all involved.

[Hedley]

I'm not sure it really matters ... if they can't find
qualified Canadian applicants, looking abroad seems
reasonable.

Canadian pilots fly all over the world - should that
be outlawed?

Heck, American airshow pilots come up to Canada
all the time - I don't have a problem with that, either.

The only thing I have a problem with, is when a
company can find local people who ARE qualified,
but don't want to pay market price, so they hire
illegal immigrants who are willing to work for
peanuts, because they are afraid of the government.

Walmart is famous for this. I don't think this is
what sunwest is doing. It's probably an enormous
paperwork pain in the *ss to get European pilots
over here, and I doubt they are paying starvation
wages!

[turbo-beaver]

Interesting......it doesn't work out that well for all the pilots out of work in Canada.....imho

[canoe]

The big thing is that they are only needed for the busy winter season and it works out well for all involved.

WTF? That fails to work for any pilot in Canada. If they can't find "qualified" personel, I would say they are hardly looking. I'm sure there are more than enough pilot's with the required time applying there, just maybe not time on type. Hence a company's ability to state there are no qualified candidates. I can understand bringing in a few to fill the void, but if this happens every winter Sunwing should be filling part of these seats with Canadian pilots and spending the money to train them.

[clear on 4]

If the German pilots are making the same pay check as the Canadian's I can accept that they might not be able to find typed pilots. But if the Germans are making more, I cry foul. If i was working as a line pilot and had one of these contract guys come in making a far greater pay check, it would not make for a happy employee.

[Hedley]

I'm sure there are more than enough pilot's with the required time applying there, just maybe not time on type

You seriously want to put two people with zero
hours on type into the front seats of a large
aircraft?

I here I thought I was apesh1t ....

[commuter]

These pilots are type rated and are experienced they are also coming over with airplanes.

[ScudRunner]

Cargojet hired about 12 American Pilots on a six month contract, There laid off as well.

[canoe]

Not at all what I said or was suggesting Hedley. Would it not make sense to upgrade someone from within and place them with an experienced PIC? If not possible then I would say look elsewhere.

[commuter]

Both Canjet and Sunwing upgrade when they can but they need crews ( both seats ) for the winter.
When you double or triple ( or more ) your fleet you can't possibly make it work otherwise.
Sky Service has been doing this for years although I am not sure of their current situation.

[rd1331]

It is not due to the fact they can't find pilots. Its a give and take situation with them from what I hear. During the winter they get half there fleet from european companies and get some crews aswell. During the summer they send some of there fleet to europe and send pilots to europe for the summer to fly, more pilots from here go to europe to fly than come from europe. If this didn't happen, every summer half the company would be laid off.

[turbo-beaver]

So, if Air Canada starts hiring pilots to fly a charter fleet based in Canada using pilots from Germany, China or Mexico, when there are literally hundreds of pilots holding ATPLs in Canada looking for jobs after spending literally thousands of dollars training for these jobs, and helping support the infrastructure and paying Canadian taxes while working in general aviation for peanuts hoping to grab a nice job on a jet sometime in the future, well, would this be OK as well?
I may be able to understand the rationale for this if a company offshore owned the aircraft, and wet leased these aircraft to Sunwings, but this is not the case here. This is a Canadian company and regardless if they have to lay off pilots for the summer, the jobs should go to Canadians. Our taxes are going to pay for the infrastructure to qualify any pilot operating in Canada so why should the jobs go out of the country? Perhaps it is time for Immigration Canada to audit Sunwings .

[commuter]

First of all it is Sunwing not wings. If you were that interested in getting a job there you would know how to spell it.
Having an ATPL by no way means your entitled to a job. Sunwing, Canjet and SkyService have and continue to hire there own people but when you add 10 planes for the winter months it makes no sense to hire and layoff every six months.
Oh and if you think this happens with out government approval your mistaken.
Immigration? really? Are you kidding buddy!

[trey kule]

canoe wrote:

I'm sure there are more than enough pilot's with the required time applying there

On what basis are you "sure". Please share your sources that you base your claim on.

As to the wage issue.
A contract pilot comes to a company essentially trained, experienced, and qualified. They use them for a relatively short period. No pension plan. Seldom any medical benefits other than basics. No holiday pay. And when you are done you are unemployed again until another contract comes up. Training, when it is required is usually deducted from the renumeration on a pro-rated basis.
Many companies, lease out aircraft with crew and insurance. done regularly and the only way from the outside to tell is by listening to the accents on the radio.
It is so simplistic and naive in peoples thinking when they compare the wages.
Compensation is based on these factors, and yes, it is usually quite a bit higher than the full time people. But you really have to look at the end of the year as to what you actually made.
This short term hiring, in my opinion is not as big a deal as some people are making it out to be.

[ng78]

What Sunwing and Skyservice have been doing for a while now is have a reciprocal agreement with European airline partners. This ensures year-round employment for pilots from both sides of the Atlantic. The pilots that participate in this prorgram get paid very well to do so, but it is an obviously difficult situation for many pilots and their families.

The viability of charter airlines with narrow-body fleets in Canada very much depends on the ability to share resources, especially aircraft and crew. Sunwing and Skyservice could not afford to keep a year-round fleet of aircraft in Canada, without enough business to profitably keep them flying. Pilots would also not stick around in a company that could only offer six months of useful employment per year, which would have a drastic effect on training and other costs.

What puzzles me is why Sunwing had to go to the CIRB in the first place? I believe this would be a first, and it could indicate that some aspect of the program could be changing.

[bob sacamano]

Cypriot pilot union was not happy this summer with Sunwing pilots flying there.

[ng78]

Cypriot pilots aren't given the opportunity to work in Canada in exchange, so that's understandable.

[commuter]

Actually they had to go that route because after Canjet got their pilots for the season " someone " complained to the powers that be ( I have a good idea who). Now the approval is being slowed . Good way to stifle the competition eh?

[Mr. North]

What seems unfair in my mind is that while it's relatively easy for Germans (and other EU pilots) to come and fly here it's exceptionally hard for a Canadian pilot to convert his license to fly in the EU. I wish the doors were open both ways, lord knows I'd love to fly in Europe!



My 2 cents.

[trey kule]

just a thought, but maybe its easier to transition to a lower standard that a higher one.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

just a thought, but maybe its easier to transition to a lower standard that a higher one.

It is not just a thought it is a fact.

[trey kule]

You and I know that ., but we are dealing with emotions here when suggesting that Canadian pilots are maybe not quite up to the same standards when they complete their CPL training....

[jetdoc]

Some what on topic, Who's flying Canjet's German registered 737 that are over here for the winter? Canadian or foreign crews?

I understood if it is a foreign registered aiccraft it would need to be operated by nationals from the country of origin?

[commuter]

Some what on topic, Who's flying Canjet's German registered 737 that are over here for the winter? Canadian or foreign crews?

I understood if it is a foreign registered aiccraft it would need to be operated by nationals from the country of origin?

Not so.
Last year Sunwing had a Dutch reg for the winter and they only needed to have documentation on board to keep it legal.