People looking for a cheap way to build time

[Jadedmapleleaf]

I was just out at King George Aviation and they have two Rans coyotes that they rent out at about 50 an hour.They are an advanced ultralight but because they have a CF reg the time can be included in your logbook as time served. Contact number for these guys is 604-5012488. Beats paying the time they charge at the schools for sure

cheers every one and merry christmas !!!!

[Hedley]

They are an advanced ultralight but because they have a CF reg the time can be included in your logbook

Ha ha, no. Ultralight, like helicopter, glider, airship etc is a
different category of aircraft.

I might suggest against making fraudulent logbook entries.

Now, if you want to fly homebuilt, owner maintenance, etc,
fill your boots, because they are the same category.

Get it?

[Jadedmapleleaf]

Hi Hedley

The aircraft are amature built ...You seem to know more about this type of thing than i do ....................Does this count for time in your book they are a Rans Coyote ...???

[iflyforpie]

AFAIK, the Rans Coyote (as with most Rans products) is certified in the ultralight category.

I logged some time in a Taylorcraft that was re-certified in the ultralight category, but for total hours only. I didn't count the time for commercial build up because you can't legally do so.

[Adam Oke]

DIVISION VII - COMMERCIAL PILOT LICENCE
421.30 Aeroplanes - Requirements
(7) Credits

(iv) Three Axis Ultra-light Aeroplane

If an applicant holds a Pilot Permit — Ultra-light Aeroplane, a Recreational Pilot Permit — Aeroplane or a Private Pilot Licence — Aeroplane, a maximum of 25 hours pilot‑in‑command flight time in three axis ultra-light aeroplanes shall be credited towards the 200 hours total flight time requirement but this time shall not be credited towards the 100 hour pilot‑in‑command flight time.
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

I don't see the problem with time building in an Ultralight? I do believe that each category will require separate logbooks. I haven't read that anywhere, but I hold a logbook for each category I fly.

Another cheap way for those interested:

(iii) Pilot Licence - Glider

If an applicant holds a Pilot Licence ‑ Glider, a maximum of 50 hours flight time in gliders shall be credited towards the 200 hours total flight time requirement but this time shall not be credited towards the 100 hour pilot‑in‑command flight time.
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

ref: http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#421_30

[Shiny Side Up]

If you're looking at getting a commercial licence don't screw around trying to save a few bucks. Go train in an aircraft appropriate to what you want to accomplish, and maybe go out of your way to get some experience doing stuff that will be applicable to the type of commercial flying that you're hoping to do. Forget about what the regs say when it comes to how much time you can count, think more about what your potential future employer is going to think about what you've done during your time building.

Here's another way to think about it. Your lowest possible time you'll have with a PPL is 45 hours. If you do a multi IFR while on your way up to your commercial, you're looking at around 50 hours of dual, then another hundred hours PIC in aeroplanes which is going to put you at 195 hours total.... how useful is that 25 hours of ultralight time going to be in there?

[Jadedmapleleaf]

Actually, I mispoke in my first post. KGA has both ultra-lights and Amature Built Aircraft to rent. As posted above only 25 hours of time can count on an ultra-light airplane. However, their other two aircraft are registared as amature built, and on these aircraft all the time counts. Their rental rates are as follows,

Even if you're not looking to 'build time' it's still a cheap way to get flying.

Rans Airraile amature built $50 p/h wet
Rans Coyote ultralight $75 p/h wet
Rans Coyote Amature built $95 p/h wet.

if you have any question, call them at 604 501 2488

[polar one]

Ah, the old postamerrcial.

I am waiting with baited breath for the next, 0 posts, just joined, to add

" I flew the Rans, Jade, and I just loved it...and did you know that not only can you fly it, but it will scrape road kill off the taxiways, and as a starving student pilot...I mean how great is that?

Of course, unkown poster, but did you know you can actually log the time?

Wow....I can log the time!!!!!!!!
But even if I couldnt Jade, this would be a great opportunity for anyone who loves to fly.
And at these rates...Jade how can you offer this wonderful opportunity at these rates?

It is quite simple. Instead of spending money on advertising like a sucker, we join
avcanada and pretend we are giving useful advice so we dont have to pay...its really that simple

And you pass the savings along to us renters, right Jade?

ah...yah, sure....
did I mention I think you can log the time?

You sure did Jade, and I have to tell you, logging time on this is so much better than the time I have been putting in my logbook from Microsoft Flight Sim

Its all good time, unkown, and as you know, while the most important thing is just to put the time in your logbook, future employers and TC are less likely to question this time than time logged on a "microsoft"

I couldnt agree with you more Jade..So come on everyone, pick up the phone right now and book some time....new hires are standing by to take your calls.

Yes, and if you call in the next twenty minutes you will receive our new booklet....how to log anything...a $20,000 value...yours for free if you call .

[Hedley]

Logging regulations aside for a second:

how useful is that 25 hours of ultralight time going to be in there?

Actually, I think a few hours in an ultralight would be of great
value for most pilots.

Many ultralights have very unusual (even nasty) handling
characteristics - completely different from the docile, certified
training aircraft.

Flying different kinds of aircraft is great experience for
a pilot - it develops their stick and rudder skill.

Just don't get killed flying an ultralight, ok? The manufacturing,
maintenance and parts are NOT certified, so as you might
expect the frequency of failure is much higher.

[Shiny Side Up]

Actually, I think a few hours in an ultralight would be of great
value for most pilots.

Many ultralights have very unusual (even nasty) handling
characteristics - completely different from the docile, certified
training aircraft.

Flying different kinds of aircraft is great experience for
a pilot - it develops their stick and rudder skill.

On this point I would agree, if the time you buy is with the goal of building skill and experience, rather than building time, and should be approached in this manner.

But be careful out there. Personally I know more pilots who have gotten themselves killed in ultralights than anything else.

Aside from that though, if you can get past some of the craziness, they can be a lot of fun.

[Hedley]

I know more pilots who have gotten themselves killed in ultralights than anything else

It's not very surprising, when you consider that:

1) the handling characteristics are not certifiable
2) less flight training is required
3) the materials used are not certifiable
4) less maintenance is required

When you combine #1 and #2, then combine
#3 and #4, well ... caveat emptor!

I remain perplexed why it is considered acceptable
for someone to kill themselves in an ultralight,
but not in a certified aircraft. Either way, someone
is dead, but I suppose the paper is safe if the uncertified
ultralight crashes, which appears to be more important.

Truly bizarre.

Please don't bring up the subject of passenger carrying
in ultralights.

[C-GGGQ]

and yet (i'll have to get the model) my grandfather just flew in an ultralite (advanced i believe) that he claimed was the most stable aircraft he's ever been in throw it in any pitch attitude and it came back to level in 2-3 ocillations. Though I agree many if not most ultralites can be squirly little things. Lots of fun too

[MichaelP]

We have a SportStar 'ultralight' and it is very much an aeroplane with a 100hp 912.
But it doesn't get much use because 1. Hours don't count enough 2. It's on a controlled airport.
It's available at $99 an hour wet.
We are waiting for a new rudder for it as a Pitts was pushed into it!

http://www.sealandair.ca/sportstar.php

The Jodel for sale at Delta Airpark has gone up to $11,000 as it now has two new magnetos. It was rebuilt in 1996, has a radio and an intercom, and will need a transponder and encoder fitted.
We can group it and there's a hangar available for a few months at Boundary Bay.
If $20,000 is budgeted between a few people this would be a very cheap aeroplane to do some hours in.

The Jodel is a highly efficient touring aeroplane, wood and fabric and tailwheel.

[Hedley]

Jodel is the first airplane I ever experienced
aerobatics in, back in the 1960's!

P.S. Why are the wings bent? Dihedral?
Wingtip clearance during crosswind landings?
Damage during shipping?

[trey kule]

Soooo Hedley, what do you think of carrying pax in an ultralight?

Personally, I think it is a great idea. Some private time to share together. wind in your hair, earth passing below. What could be wrong with that?

[MichaelP]

P.S. Why are the wings bent? Dihedral? Wingtip clearance during crosswind landings?
Damage during shipping?

The wings are not bent.... The mainplane has no dihedral so the lift vector is not inwards, it is broad chord giving a large CG range, it has a high fineness ratio (relative thin-ness for low drag).
Extremely efficient except the low aspect ratio would give it a large wingtip votex.

To fix, it sharply tapered wingtips are fitted, these increase the aspect ratio.
The wingtips have all of the required washout too, to reduce what vortices dare try to increase the drag. View the tip and it's angle is slightly negative in comparison with the canopy side (level).
Stability is taken care of by putting the required dihedral in these tips.

Eduard Joly and Jean Delmontez put their first aeroplane together, it worked, and so they made drawings of it. It won prizes in a post war France where competitions were held to design new aeroplanes.

All the Jodels I flew in Europe were factory - certified aircraft.
The single seat Jodel D9 is the only 'officially' aerobatic one with a 9g wing.
The Mascaret I flew was 'aerobatic' but this certification was not allowed in England.

The company that built them until a few months ago is in receivership...
With a nosewheel this aircraft could still be bought new and certified and with a performance no equivalent American aircraft could match.

[FE_PLT]

Actually, I mispoke in my first post. KGA has both ultra-lights and Amature Built Aircraft to rent. As posted above only 25 hours of time can count on an ultra-light airplane. However, their other two aircraft are registared as amature built, and on these aircraft all the time counts. Their rental rates are as follows,

Even if you're not looking to 'build time' it's still a cheap way to get flying.

Rans Airraile amature built $50 p/h wet
Rans Coyote ultralight $75 p/h wet
Rans Coyote Amature built $95 p/h wet.

if you have any question, call them at 604 501 2488

I may be wrong on that one, but in the States, the homebuit category is called ''experimental'' aircrafts and they can NOT be used commercialy. Can't find anything in the CAR's about Canada but just curious whether it's allowed or not?