Where Should I Go?Confed. Or Sault?

[just curious]

And while we're all grumbling...

The last thing we needed was to spend extra sessions in the sim trying to teach someone how to work within at team, and how to communicate to all the different members.

If you don't truly believe that a Multi Crew Co-operation training requirement won't follow-on to the CRM assessment debrief on rides, you'll be sadly awakened in a year or so.

[AVGAS]

Confed does 2 semesters worth of IFR groundschool and there is a Baron Simulator which is FINALLY being used for MIFR training.

[CLguy]

Job Description:
Conair is looking for Birddog pilots and Tanker F/O's for the 2009 season. These are contract postions of 100 or 130 days in length. Time requirements are as follows:
Canadian ATPL (Valid)
3500 TT
2500 PIC
500 Multi PIC (over 12500 preferred)
Experience in low level survey, bush, float and tailwheel time is preferred.
All candidates must have the right to work in Canada.
Please make sure you meet these minimums before applying.

Endless seems this company doesn't share yours or your previous employers feelings toward float pilots as well!! Don't see them asking for instructing time or two crew SOP orientated time.

[. .]

They're also not a national airline. There's a big difference between water bombing and operating a jet airliner. They also count any kind of Northern operation, or even survey time on par with float time there. So it's hardly a "gotcha" moment. Even beyond that, the bloody company operates float planes. So perhaps they want people to be able to transition within the fleet if necessary. Imagine that, a float company wanting float time. What's next an airline wanting large aircraft SOP oriented time? Sorry to rain on your parade.

You show me one airline that operates 705 jets and that serves international destinations which even has a column in their application for float time and I'll eat my words. You say that both Jazz and WJ think that float time is great. I guess they think it's so great that they don't even allow you to list it on their applications. Yet somehow they let you list lesser time, like large aircraft, or multi crew SOP time. Crazy how that works.

To further your earlier post about your cl-415 time being both 2 crew and large plane with SOPs. That for almost everyone involved its a career job. How many jobs are there on CL-415s? Maybe 200 in all of Canada? What kind of turn over is there from guys leaving to pursue airline jobs? I'd guess just about nil.

[CLguy]

Oh sorry I didn't realize you were helping with the hiring of pilots for a 705 operation. I misunderstood your post, sorry about that!

[SuperchargedRS]

"One thing that I think allot of people should know about confed but most dont is this.

ONE the fail out rate for the FIRST SEMESTER is about 1/3 (which is ridiculous)

In that semester you will have a substantial amount of money out of pocket, allot of it is ancillary stuff, residence (as almost everyone stays in res), food plan (which is over priced and you HAVE to have it if you stay in res), books, etc...oh yea and tuition, so it's a pretty penny. Also you only get about 15 hrs that semester, so hr to $ is high, fail out rate high. I think with the middle meal plan and single res and whatnot is was just under 10k so that's like $667 bucks to the college per hour for you (if that makes sense)
.
TWO Now if you get the boot, they will NOT refund the remainder of your residence or meal plan, hence most of the kids end up getting pushed to another program, this to me seems a little off.

THREE All of your grades will be decided by two tests at the end of the semester, both of these tests are worth the majority of your grade, most people find them harder then the majority of the classes, these tests dictate who stays and goes, you never get these tests back to see what you did on them, just a little note as to if your going to stay or not.
Another thing is that the dean of the flight program is not a pilot, his background is in MARKETING, yup marketing (he is responsible for allot of the articles you see online about people going right into the major airlines from college)

FOUR Now here is the thing, going to confed is a dice roll, the college does not have the resources to bring all the kids though first semester, so you have a 33% chance of loosing allot of money w/ only 15hrs to show for it, now if you make it past that...you will save some $$ from doing it privately... if you have the money do it privately, the degree is BS, if you really have a hard on for a degree just get one online or something."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39491&start=75

If you can swing it fininancaly I would do it privatly w/ a FBO, more taylored training towards when/what you want to fly,

[AUGER9]

lol You're an idiot.

Exactly what resources don't they have? They have more than anyone. It's also not a dice roll if you don't spend your entire first semester drinking. Try studying, it's not difficult.

[just curious]

FOUR Now here is the thing, going to confed is a dice roll, the college does not have the resources to bring all the kids though first semester, so you have a 33% chance of loosing allot of money w/ only 15hrs to show for it, now if you make it past that...you will save some $$ from doing it privately... if you have the money do it privately, the degree is BS, if you really have a hard on for a degree just get one online or something."

The Essential in most programs is that the buyer should beware. Sault, Confederation, Mount Royal, Seneca .... for that matter York, and U of T all have a substantial non completion rate for first year. The Forces, Brit, US, ours, all have a much higher attrition rate. Study habits, drinking, immaturity, unsuitability all play a part in this. It is rarely a giant thumb coming down form a program administator's office.

Online degree completion at the undergraduate requires dedication and maturity. Don't try it just for fun, when a brick and morter school is available.

[SuperchargedRS]

lol You're an idiot.

Exactly what resources don't they have? They have more than anyone. It's also not a dice roll if you don't spend your entire first semester drinking. Try studying, it's not difficult.

What is the chance that every class the proceeds to semester 2 is almost the same size no matter how many people enter the class.

The failure rate is much higher then high ranking colleges (and confed isnt even a real college, it's a trade school / community college). University Washington, UC Berkley etc, don't have 1/3 the class failing out. The kids that did fail out, well some of them were jacks, but some that did get in were as well. NOT TO MENTION some people failed those final tests, though they entered the tests with a good overall average.

Also when the dean of aviation knows NOTHING of aviation, but is a MARKETING guy, it makes you say hmmmm!

....but, hey, it's your money

[AUGER9]

What is the chance that every class the proceeds to semester 2 is almost the same size no matter how many people enter the class.

Not much, actually.

....but, hey, it's your money

Exactly, try working a little. They're not in a big scheme to fail you. Despite what you think.

(and confed isnt even a real college, it's a trade school / community college). University Washington, UC Berkley etc

In Canada, that's what we call colleges. The schools you mentioned are classified as universities.

But anyways, carry on with your misinformed, bitter rantings

[just curious]

Touche!

[Zwartboy]

ONE the fail out rate for the FIRST SEMESTER is about 1/3 (which is ridiculous)

The Sault College failure rate is about 1/2. I'm in 2nd year there now, my class started off over 100, and it's down to the low 40s now. I used to complain about the high failure rate here too, but then I heard stories about going to school to be a controller and the amount of people that don't make it though. (anybody able to confirm that? it is hearsay)

TWO Now if you get the boot, they will NOT refund the remainder of your residence or meal plan, hence most of the kids end up getting pushed to another program, this to me seems a little off.

Same at Sault College

FOUR Now here is the thing, going to confed is a dice roll, the college does not have the resources to bring all the kids though first semester, so you have a 33% chance of loosing allot of money w/ only 15hrs to show for it

You don't start flying in the Soo until 2nd semester. If you fail out in 1st semester, you won't even have a logbook yet.

[Zwartboy]

That wasn't supposed to be bashing Sault College.
If you look at everything statistically, then Confed "should" be easier. If you study, work hard and save the partying for when it's appropriate, Sault College is easy.

[SuperchargedRS]

Perhaps I came across wrong in all this.... I DO NOT think there is some big conspiracy, just a chit show of a program, I do not think the dean is capable of plotting his was out of a wet bag.

Now I cant sit here and not say something when people try to classify all the kids that got kicked from the program as people that drank and went out all the time,
for one allot of the people cant even buy booze, second the kids in the aviation program were a very meek quiet crowd compared to all the other programs (or at least last year). I do know a few people who were f offs who I wouldn’t even want to drive in a car with that moved on in the program.

IF the argument is this is the way it is in Canada, then perhaps Canadians need to get off there passive arses and reform things a bit.

I ended up going the private FBO route, I am able to fit things into my schedule, and when I add up the extra money I bring in due to not having my schedule made for me and the fact that I am pacing to have the healthy majority of my hours on a float plane, I do not see the appeal of confed (and ANY other school that has the same practices).

I just think people need to know that 1/3 of everyone that enters this program is going to get kicked out, the balance of their unused food plan and residence WILL NOT be refunded, THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

[BTD]

It is not random selection. It is easy to make it past the first year. (I can only speak for Sault)

All you need is to put in the time and effort. Know yourself before making that kind of commitment. 1/3 Graduated the college my year, which was a few years ago now. It is up to you whether you succeed or not. Nobody else.

BTD

I would suggest Confed is the same. The Dean at Sault wasn't a pilot either. He was the Dean of Technology. One of the roles of the CFI at a subsidized college is to be the liaison. Most airline CEOs are not pilots, and wouldn't be better CEOs if they were.

[flyordie17]

I was looking at seneca's program also and I have an 80% average for applying there? Do they still give you $1000 a year scholarship for 80% and higher?I know that people say it has a bad reputation for kicking students out. Are they kicked out of the program? or is it another case of failing courses and they have an high fail rate?like sault and confed

[sstaurus]

lol You're an idiot.

Exactly what resources don't they have? They have more than anyone. It's also not a dice roll if you don't spend your entire first semester drinking. Try studying, it's not difficult.

x2

No one gets kicked out. You kick yourself out. And the ancillary living expenses are a moot point, since you have to pay that anywhere.