Jazz in YYB

[Brown Bear]

Okay, I might be alone here, but has it been long enough for some intellectual discussion on the subject? Are we going to learn anything from this, or is it going to be swept under the rug? Are there details that Jazz is hiding? Was there a problem with the Dash? Was there a sixty knot tail wind? Why is it something we are not allowed to talk about? It wasn't even an accident for crying out loud! It was just an incident. It could have been tragic, but it wasn't.

[Sulako]

There is no conspiracy theory, you can talk about it all you want. The initial post wasn't removed because we wanted to suppress anything, it was because the tone of the thread quickly went into an unrecoverable stall.

You would like a reboot? No problem, I'll start.

...So, I heard a Dash-8 went off the runway, but I guess I'll have to wait for the report to come out before I know the whole story...

Okay, you go next.

[Brown Bear]

And what do you expect to see on the report? Usually,when an aircraft overruns a runway, the reasons are pretty damn obvious? Why the "handle like eggs" approach to this particular incident??
I figure they came in hot and high, landed with not enough runway left, and just skidded off the end. Am I allowed to even think this? Because, something went wrong here, somewhere? Or, do we make like ostriches on this one. And why?
Or, are we waiting for the official report to say a Dash 8 went off the end of a ten thousand foot runway in fairly bad weather? That would be a revelation, now wouldn't it?
Sully, if you or I had cone that, it'd be all over the internet. Uncensored. It would be treated as healthy speculation. Problem solving, if not fact.

[KAFUFO]

some intellectual discussion

I'm preety sure we can discuse it, I just hate when a thread gets locked and pulled without my controbution.

as far as I understand it though there was a malfunction with the autoland in a tailwind and now TC is deciding on issuing an AD but they will wait till the final report for that

[Meatservo]

Well, I think they took the discussion off because as usual, (historically speaking, I'm not totally innocent here) it devolved into squabbling and name-calling among the more volatile personalities. Among the less volatile personalities there is a tendency to not want to speculate too much before knowing all the facts, for several reasons:

1) Sensitivity to the crew involved, who must be fairly chagrinned at this point.

2) Hubris. I've done dumb stuff before too and I don't want to read about it here.

3) The universe has a penchant for ironic physical comedy, and I don't want to put myself on the deserving end of that by making it sound like I think this will never happen to me.

So, yes, I think some pilots do put their heads in the sand for a while after an incident, in order to not appear foolish when the real cause of the incident is revealed not to be the cause they thought it was.

However, when an aeroplane goes off the end of a runway, you can assume that:

1) It touched down too fast for the normally functioning braking mechanisms to bring it to a stop in the space available, or;
2) The braking mechanisms were not functioning properly, or;
3) The runway was too short.

You can break #1 down into: a) Touched down too far down the runway at the correct speed
b) Touched down at the correct spot at too high a speed or,
c) Both a) and c).

You can break #2 down into: a) The brakes or reverse or spoilers were broken
b) Conditions for hydroplaning were present at the time.

In the case of 2)a), the crew may or may not be aware of the malfunctioning system
In the case of 2)b), the crew may or may not know about the hydroplaning conditions

You can break #3 down into: a) The crew was unaware of the runway length and landed at an inappropriate aerodrome or,
b) Distance required to land was longer than normal because of tailwind, hydroplaning, etc.

So I think I've managed to get all the possible reasons that an aeroplane might go off the end of a runway here, barring of course the crew just deliberately running it off the end for kicks, or to teach their boss a lesson.

It pretty clearly wasn't 3)a), probably wasn't 2)a), and when the report comes out we can probably figure out which of the other things it was.

[f.o.ever]

Well put Meat...Discussion OVER

[just curious]

I'm preety sure we can discuse it, I just hate when a thread gets locked and pulled without my controbution.

No worries Kafufo, I'll wait til you jump in then delete it.

[xsbank]

Autoland on a LOC only approach? I don't think so. Autoland on a Dash 8? I don't think so.
Runway too short? Nope.

This is fun! Moron! Doofus! That's fun too! Oh, wait.... gee, it sure is blowing today - Westerly gales, 30 - 40 knots... oh look, there goes a Helijet... I wonder if any Beaver drivers will "go have a look?"

[KAFUFO]

I'll wait til you jump in then delete it.

you might want to check system after system

Autoland on a LOC only approach? I don't think so. Autoland on a Dash 8? I don't think so.
Runway too short? Nope.

think there might be a little sarcasem there?

[Just another canuck]

It's very simple what happened...

The FA unbuckled too early, lost her balance and fell into the cockpit. The throttles got firmly lodged up her ass in the full power position... there was nothing they could do.

It wasn't even the pilots fault.

[Flybaby]

I'm guessing the FA was performing a striptease on the flight deck, distracting the two pilots during the roll out. New SOP, no naked women on the flight deck below 10000.

[Doc]

OOOOzing wit and wisdom? I guess we'll just stay in da Nile? Dare's a river in Egypt, day call Da Nile. Dats where dis incident will stay....in da river.

Sure looked good on the Cowboys!!!

[Morav]

Didn't Bearskin go off the side of the runway in Sudbury about a week ago? Didn't they also go off the side of the runway in Sudbury a few months ago?

Is it just me, or are there a lot of Jazz haters out there? Maybe that's the reason the thread went the way it did. I haven't seen anything mentioned about these Bearskin incidents.

It must be the uniform and funny hats

[Just another canuck]

I'm not a Jazz hater... I didn't hear about the Bear incidents either, but going off the SIDE of a runway and going off the END of 2 mile runway are in different categories... I would say.

[Doc]

Didn't Bearskin go off the side of the runway in Sudbury about a week ago? Didn't they also go off the side of the runway in Sudbury a few months ago?

Is it just me, or are there a lot of Jazz haters out there? Maybe that's the reason the thread went the way it did. I haven't seen anything mentioned about these Bearskin incidents.

It must be the uniform and funny hates

And this would have anything to with going off the end of a ten thousand foot runway? How?
How would this equate to Jazz "haters"??
BTW, there's no "e" in "hats"....

[whipline]

Well if we are guessing, here is mine. They got to their MDA, flew along for a bit, hit their missed approach point, started a go around, then got contact with the runway, then appempted to land not knowing how much pavement was left.

[trey kule]

OK....I have gotten all the facts on this incident from the posters here.

Here is what happened.

While on auto land , the crew was using a new piece of equiment which triggered a response from the interglactic defense team which arrived by laser beam immediately prior to the start of the approach. When entering the cabin they found the flight attendent doing a strip tease, and were distracted in their mission. Meanwhile the tailwind had picked up to gale force, and a break in the clouds momentarily blinded the flight crew. As a result the aircraft ran off the end of the runway and the aliens beamed themselves back up, the FA and the FO are considering marriage, and the captain was last seen searching through the SOP's to see how alien interference should have been handled as per the SMS program.

And, everyone is glad no one was hurt,

I dont think with all the "facts" posted here, my theroy is any worse than anyone elses.

[...]

I have first hand information and actual eye witnesses if anyone cares to ask me.

That's right...I am Birddog, knower of all things.

[Just another canuck]

I have first hand information and actual eye witnesses if anyone cares to ask me.

That's right...I am Birddog, knower of all things.

K, I'm asking... what happened knower of all things?

not knowing how much pavement was left.

Not knowing that is not very smart...

[Morav]

Thanks, that was a typo.

[Valkyrie_XB70]

Didn't Bearskin go off the side of the runway in Sudbury about a week ago? Didn't they also go off the side of the runway in Sudbury a few months ago?

Is it just me, or are there a lot of Jazz haters out there? Maybe that's the reason the thread went the way it did. I haven't seen anything mentioned about these Bearskin incidents.

It must be the uniform and funny hats

The one from a few months ago was due to a flock of birds while the aircraft was landing. http://www.tc.gc.ca/Aviation/applicatio ... osition=52

Not sure about the cause of the one from last week however.

[Brown Bear]

I have first hand information and actual eye witnesses if anyone cares to ask me.

That's right...I am Birddog, knower of all things.

Do share with us, oh wise Bird Dog. Put an end to this speculation and relieve us of our pain.

Maybe it's just me, but if I don't get it on the ground in the first, oh, seven or eight thousand feet, I throttle up, and get out of Dodge....

[...]

After consulting with my publicist, media agent, wardrobe coordinator, and the Dalai Lama...I have been advised to not reveal my sources AND my knowledge of the above said events.....for free.

So, kindly deposit a small contribution to "Widow's" fund and show me a confirmation number, I will gladly PM you the details.

Happy New Year

[Tim]

OK....I have gotten all the facts on this incident from the posters here.

Here is what happened.

While on auto land , the crew was using a new piece of equiment which triggered a response from the interglactic defense team which arrived by laser beam immediately prior to the start of the approach. When entering the cabin they found the flight attendent doing a strip tease, and were distracted in their mission. Meanwhile the tailwind had picked up to gale force, and a break in the clouds momentarily blinded the flight crew. As a result the aircraft ran off the end of the runway and the aliens beamed themselves back up, the FA and the FO are considering marriage, and the captain was last seen searching through the SOP's to see how alien interference should have been handled as per the SMS program.

And, everyone is glad no one was hurt,

I dont think with all the "facts" posted here, my theroy is any worse than anyone elses.

can you please do this on every ridiculous thread? i'm still wiping the tears out of my eyes...