Accommodations for Westjet new hirers during training

[nic]

Hi there

If you are a pilot looking for a place to stay for your 6 week training I have a spare bedroom, full bathroom and if needed a car to rent. I live in airdrie with it only being 15-20 mins to the airport / hanger, 25 ish mins to mactavish.

It works out to just less then $25/day, $1000 for the 6 weeks

$400 for the car (for your 6 weeks)

if interested please email me

[mattedfred]

doesn't WJ supply accommodations for new hires?

[just curious]

No. As you may recall, WestJet is Calgary based.

[. .]

No. As you may recall, WestJet is Calgary based.

They aren't a "Calgary" airline anymore. They have their port system from coast to coast saving them millions on hotels. You'd think that it would make sense to take care of their hotel in Calgary, if this person is gonna take care of the accommodations in Ottawa, Montreal, etc.

[mattedfred]

i don't understand what you mean just curious? i'm sure WJ has hired at least a few pilots that didn't live in YYC when they were hired.

[KAG]

You know they have, but WJ doesn't put pilots up during training. Hopefully in time it will change.

[mattedfred]

well get work on that will you kag . you guys have an opportunity to be the industry leader in so many ways. your new hires should get a hotel, transportation, per diems, pay etc throughout training.

[Flightlevels]

chip...chip...chip....what don't you guys understand about Calgary being a base. This subject has been beaten to death. Don't want to pay... then move here. Want to live somewhere else... the port system will hopefully enhance your commuting lifestyle. I think this is already industry leading... don't you?

People forget quickly that a little bit here a little bit there adds up to legacy type costs. You might say what's a few rooms? just 25 grand per class.
Closed minded? Maybe. but if you want to have a viable long lasting job.
Entitlement is alive and well.

[mattedfred]

now that doesn't really sound like the "we're all owners" mentality to me. it has nothing to do with entitlement and everything to do with mutual respect. if WJ offered you a job then the least they could do would be to offer you a hotel room if you hadn't moved to CYYC yet. now that would be industry leading and have nothing to do with a legacy.

[BLZD1]

And we wonder why our industry is going downhill. I guess other companies will have to sacrifice this type of professional perk to be able to compete with WestJet. Race to the bottom again.

[Flightlevels]

sounds like a "we owe you for you wanting a job here" sounds like entitlement to me. Westjet didn't ask you to work here. Giving you the job was the"least we could do"...sheesh.
Industry leading margins of 14% are only there to be eroded by 250,000 minimum per year in additional hotel room costs. Who's next? FA's or Maint personnel? A base is a base. If you were hired for a Toronto Base and had to come to Calgary then that's a different story. Maybe won't hurt today but down the road the little things add up. Just look next door. Have you looked around lately in this economic environment. Maybe Westjet wouldn't be the only one hiring to the magnitude they are today if costs weren't in line. Food for thought.

race to the bottom. I suspect you haven't been flying to see any of the other bottoms or experience any company closures or being layed off. Please enlighten us BLZD.

[mattedfred]

i said offer you a hotel room. this has nothing to do with entitlement and everything to do with creating a professional and welcoming environment so the new hire that came from out of town can concentrate on training rather then finding a couch to crash on. do you know if any of the new hire WJ managers or executives have been provided with hotels during either their interview process or during their relocation? the tone of your post sounds like a "screw the new guy, i need my profit sharing" attitude and isn't very westjetish.

[Flightlevels]

Trust me. I'm not saying screw the new guy. The last time I checked and in speaking with recruiting guys. New hires all get word about a week after the interview with the exception for reference checks if they happen to take longer. They get an official letter of hire 30 days prior to ground school. Seems like enough time to make arrangements. Often if requested the hiring team provides you with posi tickets to house hunt. fair enough?

[mattedfred]

certainly enough time to find either a crash pad, cheap hotel or friend to stay with during your initial course. a posi ticket would be nice. do you know how the new hire managers or executives get treated?

[Flightlevels]

My guess is no differently. I honestly haven't heard but I can ask. My belief is that some directors and vp's or evp's have a very unique skill set. When you get a good one it's probably very worthwhile adding perks. They aren't as abundant as a pilot.

[BLZD1]

Flightlevel,

I have been in the industry long enough to have been employed at CanJet 1, Canada 3000 and CanJet 2. I work at AC for now.

With any new company it takes a long time to create a good contract. I just feel it is in all pilots (your) interests to make our profession better for everyone. I am not saying this is a WestJet pilots attitude. I am only referring to your comments. Lets make this a better industry for everyone instead of the backwards movement that has been happing in Canada for the past 10 years. We fly people all over the world and to me that makes us justified in seeking good work conditions and respect!

[Ryan Coke2]

Trust me, there is way more respect here than I ever had working for the maple leaf. I can't speak for the industry leading contract that you enjoyed at CJ 1 or 2.

As for new hire rooms, I actually agree, I think it is a step we should take. But what Flightlevels says is absolutely true--you have to carefully weigh any and all expenses, that is what makes us profitable, and that is what gives us job security and personal financial security.

If we start spending money too freely because we are doing well, soon enough we aren't doing so well anymore.

[Yossarian]

I was fortunate enough to find a place in Calgary for $600 for the duration of the course. However, I had to rent a car as well and this cost me in the way of two thousand plus. Public transit at the time was not very attractive although the transit system is quite good and I use it now as a commuter.
A hotel would have been nice......but in the short time I've been here the two profit share cheques I've received have met and exceeded those costs. I view these cheques as a bonus and not a part of our official pay structure, which they officially are. This is the trade off. I paid 3K for a type rating less than two years ago and they gave it back to me in less than 2 years.

Contrary to one of the posts above, Westjet does pay you during training. They made a deposit six days after I started with the company.

[ziggy]

Mattedfred....why do you even care if you are not here, or coming here, and based on your 1500ish posts, you should have known WestJet's policy by now. Most people with half a clue already know how it works!

And the red team does the same thing in sense as well. (Jazz that is) Heres what was happening......You get hired there, get a Calgary base, however line indoc is out of YYZ. So for the month or whatever it is that you are on line indoc, you must pay for your own accomodations in Toronto. Why didnt they pay for that??

I had to laugh at BLZD1's comments, after being through CJ1 and 2. Cause of course, CanJet didn't lower the bar at all!! Not even the on the 2nd, and i guess now, the 3rd attempt. But i am glad, that you did eventually see the light and GTFOOT!

[A330]

It's a shame a relatively small expense for a large company, would be deemed excessive when starting out at your new airline job. Having to couch it, or find someone to bunk with....you just can't make that sound reasonable or justifiable. Except in penny pinching happyland....However, I have to agree that BLZD lost me as well after a history of Canjet 1 and 2, credibility lost. Working conditions? declining contracts? Isn't that Canjet defined? Glad you made it to AC...

[Go Guns]

(Jazz that is) Heres what was happening......You get hired there, get a Calgary base, however line indoc is out of YYZ. So for the month or whatever it is that you are on line indoc, you must pay for your own accomodations in Toronto. Why didnt they pay for that??

That is false. In the above scenario, hotel and per diems just as if you were on the line.

[BLZD1]

Yes, CanJet's work conditions are not industry standard. They are trying. Ya I made $60000 as a Capt. at CanJet and now I am making $42000 as an FO at AC with around 10000 hours experience. In my opinion neither WestJet's or Air Canada's contracts are industry standard compared to the late 1990's. What did Canadian pilots make flying the 737? AC pilots have given up allot of great stuff in the last 10 years in order to complete. They will probably have to give up more soon! This is not an attack on WestJet! This is an attack on pilots that say we will not make our work conditions better in the interest of profit sharing. Bad management and the governments are ripping off the airline industry. I feel people do not pay enough to fly in this country therefore the low profit margins. AC just drop there new hires per-dim in the last couple courses because they said they need complete with other airlines. Again lowering the bar for everyone. It just sucks that we are working backwards in the name of profit margins and profit sharing while GTA Bus Drivers and FAs are making more than allot of pilots are.

I will be the first one to admit I screwed myself working for low wages in this industry and that why I only make $42000 now!!

Hoping for a change,

BLZD

[Ali G]

Industry leading margins of 14% are only there to be eroded by 250,000 minimum per year in additional hotel room costs.

Industry leading margins, and you are worried about 250,000 a year? This issue is one of the nickel and dime crap of which WJ needs to address.

What about the savings cost for all those porters and commuters who cancel their hotel rooms at their home port for the rest of their career with WJ? Many commuters bid for overnights in their home port.

Now, when i come out for recurrent training, it may be 6 hotels nights I need for the whole year, 8 tops. I can assure you that I personally cancel a far greater number of hotels in my home port.

As for being Calgary based, what about all the phonecalls I receive every day (that I often take) in my home port which save the company money and flight cancellations because of the logistics of being Calgary based. (ie a early morning flight in YYT or YHZ). How about the company pay for my last commute, since they would have had to pay for a Calgary based pilot to DH anyway?

Once WJ makes the investment in another base for growth and logistics, you may even see the margins go above 14% because you may elimate 300 hotel rooms a day in YYZ for example.

But, what do I know.....

[. .]

Industry leading margins of 14% are only there to be eroded by 250,000 minimum per year in additional hotel room costs.

Industry leading margins, and you are worried about 250,000 a year? This issue is one of the nickel and dime crap of which WJ needs to address.

What about the savings cost for all those porters and commuters who cancel their hotel rooms at their home port for the rest of their career with WJ? Many commuters bid for overnights in their home port.

Now, when i come out for recurrent training, it may be 6 hotels nights I need for the whole year, 8 tops. I can assure you that I personally cancel a far greater number of hotels in my home port.

As for being Calgary based, what about all the phonecalls I receive every day (that I often take) in my home port which save the company money and flight cancellations because of the logistics of being Calgary based. (ie a early morning flight in YYT or YHZ). How about the company pay for my last commute, since they would have had to pay for a Calgary based pilot to DH anyway?

Once WJ makes the investment in another base for growth and logistics, you may even see the margins go above 14% because you may elimate 300 hotel rooms a day in YYZ for example.

But, what do I know.....

+1

[FICU]

$60,000 for a Captain at CJ??

I know of a Canadian 737 operator that pays salary, provides a hotel room, and per-diems for initial training. Year 1 Captains start at $130,000, there is a consistent 3% cost of living increase each year, and there is profit sharing.

Now Westjet is about to move into their territory... will we see this carrier make new hires pay their own way for training to attempt to compete? Time will tell but it would be sad to see another airline take money from their employees as this move to the WJ LCC model broadens in North America.