Kelowna Airport delays

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Rotten Apple #1
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Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Even our RNP approaches can't help us lately. The ILS DME 2 rwy 16 has been u/s pending a regulatory review (per NOTAMs) for a while now so the higher minimums for the ILS DME 1 rwy 16 apply.

Strangely, there is no mention of this predicament in the following article that appeared in the Kelowna Daily Courier yesterday.

Good reporting; good media management!

I'll know in the next 3 hours or so whether I'm doing the midnight drive thru the Rockies for my sim session tomorrow morning, as the weather is currently 300 ft OVC. F***!!

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/stori ... ?id=157879
Thick fog disrupts Kelowna air travel

Staff
2009-01-13

Thick fog led to 14 cancelled flights at Kelowna‘s airport on Monday, leaving passengers stranded.

The heavy cloud rolled onto the runway long before sunrise, forcing the pilot of a WestJet flight from Las Vegas to fly over at 4:45 a.m. The fog later lifted, allowing flights to arrive later than scheduled, but pockets of cloud descended on both ends of the runway field again by 11 a.m.

For the next four hours, most flights in and out of the airport were scrubbed. In all, seven inbound and seven outbound flights were cancelled.

It was the worst day for fog-related delays and cancellations that airport spokeswoman Jenelle Turpin has experienced in her 18 months on the job.

“The ceiling level was lower than what (pilots) needed to fly in and out for a good part of the day,” she said. “No one wants to see this happen. The airlines feel for the passengers.”

Pilots must see one mile in front of them and 251 feet of vertical visibility when arriving or taking off.

While the visibility on the runway was relatively good for much of the day Monday, they had trouble seeing through the fog banks at either ends of the field, Turpin said.

The pilots flew back to their point of origin or continued on to their next destination. The affected airlines – WestJet, Air Canada and charter airline Shell Canada Embraer – arranged to place passengers on the next available flights to Kelowna, Turpin said.

“Safety is the number-one issue. If the pilot . . . doesn‘t have the visibility and doesn‘t feel it‘s safe to land, it‘s their judgment call.”

The airlines rescheduled those unable to fly out of Kelowna.

“They will get to their location,” said Turpin.

Before a new instrument landing system was installed in 2003, fog and poor visibility led to scores of scrubbed flights because pilots relied mostly on their eyesight and instructions from the tower to land a plane.

On average, a hundred commercial flights a year were unable to land because of the weather.

Try spotting the misinformation...
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Flight 714 »

What a shame to have the ILS/ DME 2 down this day! As for the misinformation...

"Pilots must see one mile in front of them"

Isn't the requirement just 1/2 mile vis for the departure and approach? Not sure... haven't flown in there for a few years.

Sure hope you snag a flight to Calgary... a morning sim after an all night drive is likely not your idea of a good time.

714
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Well today it sucked to be a YLW commuter.

Here is CHBC News reporting on the weather. Note the reference again to "251" feet. As if that approach was actually valid at this time.

http://chbcnews.ca/index.php?name=News& ... &sid=17284
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

From the Kelowna Daily Courier today. Put your hands up if you love 251 feet...

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/stori ... ?id=158364
Airport fogged in

Don Plant
2009-01-15



Pea-soup fog descended on Kelowna Airport again Wednesday, stranding hundreds of passengers for the second time this week.

By mid-afternoon, seven arriving flights and 10 departures had been cancelled because pilots couldn‘t see the runway. Only two flights had enough visibility to land and one more took off for Toronto.

“We‘ve had one of the most challenging winters we‘ve had to deal with at this airport in over a decade,” said airport spokeswoman Jenelle Turpin. “It‘s frustrating, but it‘s Mother Nature. Safety is our No. 1 priority.”

A group of 160 passengers destined for Cancun, Mexico, waited all day for a charter aircraft that never came. At 5 p.m., they ended up taking buses to Vancouver, where the plane was to fly them south about 10 p.m.

“I‘m keeping positive. I‘m going on vacation and I‘m not at work,” said Dale Ross, 29, as she boarded the bus with a girlfriend. “It‘s not really their fault. It‘s fog.”

The airport was crowded with would-be passengers at midday Wednesday. One couple was trying to fly to Vancouver to catch a cruise that leaves today. A woman arrived in Kelowna to catch a connecting flight to London, England.

“There‘s a little anxiety and concern,” said Turpin.

Pilots must be able to see one mile in front of them and have 251 feet of vertical visibility when arriving or taking off. The few flights that did land Wednesday had been circling until the fog lifted for a few minutes.

The cancellations began Tuesday night, when fog prevented two flights from arriving in Kelowna. That led to two cancellations of departing flights first thing Wednesday. Soon after, a WestJet flight from Edmonton had to over-fly Kelowna and continue on to Calgary.

Monday, when at least 14 flights were scrubbed, was almost as bad. WestJet and Air Canada added extra flights on Tuesday to absorb the overflow of departing passengers.

Those flying out of Kelowna today should check the flight schedule online at http://www.ylw.aero. The forecast calls for more fog this morning.

Unlike the delays on Monday, it wasn't the approach ban that restricted arrivals Wednesday, it was the ceiling. It hovered around 300 feet for most of the afternoon and evening, with visibility around 3-5 miles.

Interestingly, the RNP 34 has lower limits than the straight in ILS DME 1 rwy 16 (500 feet AGL for the RNP according to the NOTAMS versus 660 feet AGL for the ILS ). That might explain why the two Westjet airplanes made it in on Wednesday, when no one else did.

A couple of ramp handlers leaving the airport at 3:00 told me that Sunwing had circled for 5 hours before buggering off back to YVR. They probably exaggerated, but that's-a-what they said. The Sunwing passengers had been at the airport since early in the morning awaiting their Cancun flight, only to leave the airport at 5 pm on buses for YVR.

This is another media outlet's story on the Monday delays:

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... .htm#44358
Airport running clear after fog delays
by Contributed - Story: 44358
Jan 13, 2009 / 10:26 am



The arrivals and departures board at Kelowna International Airport looks a little better today.

Heavy fog created gridlock on the runways Monday, with seven incoming flights being unable to land, causing hundreds of passengers to be stranded.

Jenelle Turpin, communications manager for the airport, says all the passengers impacted by Monday’s cancellations and diversions have been re-booked onto other flights.

“There are no delays due to fog today. All the travellers who were affected by the flights will have spoken with their individual airlines by now and been re-booked,” says Turpin.

She says the minimum requirements for visibility for a landing were not met yesterday, which caused the pilots to turn away.

“Transport Canada has a minimum visibility requirement of one mile and a ceiling of 251 feet. Those were not the conditions yesterday, there were heavy pockets of fog on either end of the runway.”

Turpin says although the Kelowna International Airport follows the guidelines from Transport Canada, the individual airlines can have different guidelines, which can be stricter than those used at the Kelowna airport.

“Ultimately, if the pilot doesn’t feel he can land safely, that’s his call. We do have instruments to help guide them down when visibility is bad, but if the pilot can’t see the runway on descent, they don’t have to use the instruments.”

Airport officials estimate as many as six hundred people were stranded by Monday’s weather.
JD (Still in YLW---read between the lines if you like :( )
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Last edited by Rotten Apple #1 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Go Guns »

That airport and those who run it could do no wrong in the eyes of the Kelowna media. In fact, if the Canadian news industry is any indication, the people in charge of all our Airports should be running the country, they never do anything wrong.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by bandaid »

Still soupy here in Kelowna today.

I moved topic out of Westjet and into General.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Flying Nutcracker »

Why is nobody pointing fingers at Navcan or TC who have pulled the RCAP for "regulatory" review??? Why is nobody ON THIS BOARD pointing fingers at Navcan or TC who have pulled the RCAP for "regulatory" review???Why is there a 3 month gap between the expiry on the RCAPs and the end of the review period??? Why can they not review it prior to the expiry date???

Why is nobody pointing this out to the media??? Why is Kelowna airport so frantically pushing the 251 instead of telling the REAL story???

cunningly interesting...
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by airplane rider »

I also don't understand why a "regulatory review" takes three months or why on earth they would choose to conduct it during the WINTER. There should be more public awareness of the real issue being the lowest approach not being in use, not the adequate weather.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

I missed my work schedule today, and have to decide what to do to get to YYC for a shift on Saturday. At this point I may drive to Kamloops tomorrow to hop a WJ flight out of there. Driving the Rogers Pass is inadvisable says Mrs D and everyone else. A terrible inconvenience and cost to many people is this situation.

So, after I dropped my kid off at school this a.m. I went to the CYLW airport administration offices. I managed to talk to Jenelle Turpin, the PR person, and then eventually to Sam Sammadar, the airport manager, representing myself as a private citizen of Kelowna who wanted answers to the situation. I eventually revealed that I am a Transport Category qualified and current pilot.

I won't reveal all the details of our conversation but I don't think they'll be pushing the 251 feet angle so much in press interviews. At least I hope not, as I made it abundantly clear that 251 feet isn't worth squat right now.

Mr Sammadar made it clear that the review is hung up with Nav Canada.

So I phoned Nav Canada.

I left a message with a media specialist. That person called me back
and had spoken with the Operations Manager at ANS (Air Navigation Services) whose name is Jeff M********. The message passed on is that the approach is under review. No date set for reinstatement. No details of what is required (flight check?). The media guy intimated they were reviewing the approach to see if any changes were required...although he wasn't a technical guy.

So I emailed jm********@Navcanada.ca in hopes that that is the correct email address for the person who might have the answers. I'm waiting for a response. So far Yahoo daemon-mailer hasn't said there's no such address.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

If any YLW pilots would like to set the record straight on the ILS situation, you might call Barry McDivitt at 250 861-8233 at CHBC News. I am unwilling to go through the hoops with my employer to get permission to appear on camera.

Perhaps Nav Canada needs to come clean with why the delay.

My wife just heard a radio interview with the airport spokesperson (Jenelle) and she is still calling it a problem with FOG; the worst in 10 years in her words.

Here is a record of the METARS (airport weather reports) starting at 10:00 p.m. local time Thursday Jan 15, 2008, and working backwards to 4:00 a.m. Wednesday morning: (Bold type is where the ceiling was at 300 feet AGL or above, meaning there was a good chance a flight could have landed if the ILS DME 2 rwy 16 was in operation.)


10:00 p.m. p.m. Thursday Jan 15, 2009

CYLW 160600Z 15005KT 9SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3054 RMK SLP365
CYLW 160516Z 12004KT 8SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3054
CYLW 160500Z 12005KT 7SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3054 RMK SLP366
CYLW 160451Z 13004KT 7SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 160419Z 12005KT 9SM OVC004 M02/M04 A3054
CYLW 160400Z 12005KT 8SM OVC006 M02/M05 A3054
CYLW 160357Z 12005KT 7SM OVC005 M02/M05 A3054
CYLW 160350Z 14006KT 6SM OVC004 M02/M04 A3054
CYLW 160339Z 15004KT 3SM OVC003 M02/M04 A3055


CYLW 160327Z 14004KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3054

CYLW 160300Z 13004KT 3SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3054
CYLW 160200Z 14004KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3054
CYLW 160150Z 16004KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3053
CYLW 160147Z 17004KT 5SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3053
CYLW 160109Z 10003KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3054
CYLW 160100Z 11004KT 6SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3054
CYLW 160000Z 08003KT 6SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3054
CYLW 152349Z 13002KT 5SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3053
CYLW 152334Z 15002KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M03
CYLW 152300Z 00000KT 5SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3052
CYLW 152242Z 05002KT 7SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3052
CYLW 152200Z 13003KT 8SM OVC005 M01/M03 A3053
CYLW 152139Z 00000KT 6SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 152133Z 00000KT 5SM OVC005 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 152111Z 00000KT 3SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 152100Z 00000KT 3SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 152055Z 00000KT 3SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3055


12:40 p.m. Thursday

CYLW 152040Z 00000KT 3 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3055

12:22 p.m.

CYLW 152022Z 00000KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 152000Z 09002KT 8SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3056
CYLW 151945Z 04004KT 7SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151943Z 04004KT 7SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151934Z 05003KT 2 1/2SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3056


CYLW 151921Z 05002KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3057

CYLW 151900Z 00000KT 2 1/4SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3057

CYLW 151852Z 05002KT 2 1/4SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3058

CYLW 151830Z 09002KT 2SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3058

CYLW 151820Z 10003KT 2SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3058
CYLW 151808Z 00000KT 1 1/4SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3058

11:00 a.m.

CYLW 151800Z 00000KT 1 1/8SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3057
CYLW 151758Z 00000KT 1 3/8SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3057
CYLW 151753Z 00000KT 2 3/8SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3057
CYLW 151700Z 09002KT 3SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3058
CYLW 151600Z 07003KT 4SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151536Z 07004KT 3 1/2SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3057


CYLW 151524Z 08004KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3056

CYLW 151520Z 08004KT 3SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056 Start here at 7:20 a.m. when the ceiling was 300 feet OVC.

7:00 a.m.

CYLW 151500Z 00000KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3056
CYLW 151456Z 00000KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3056

CYLW 151427Z 00000KT 9SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151408Z 00000KT 7SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151400Z 08002KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 151355Z 08002KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151331Z 05002KT 6SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151318Z 00000KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 151300Z 09002KT 5SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 151230Z 13002KT 3 1/2SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151200Z 07003KT 4SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151141Z 05003KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3055


CYLW 151133Z 05003KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 151121Z 01002KT 2 1/4SM OVC001 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 151120Z 00000KT 3SM OVC001 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 151114Z 00000KT 5SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3055

CYLW 151112Z 00000KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3055

CYLW 151101Z 00000KT 5SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3055

CYLW 151100Z 00000KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 151036Z 04003KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3056
CYLW 151035Z 04003KT 5SM OVC004 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151034Z 04003KT 5SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056


CYLW 151030Z 05003KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151026Z 05003KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3056
CYLW 151020Z 06003KT 1SM VV001 M01/M03 A3056
CYLW 151011Z 06005KT 5/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3056
CYLW 151007Z 07004KT 1SM VV001 M01/M03 A3056
CYLW 151003Z 08004KT 1 1/4SM OVC001 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 151002Z 08004KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 151000Z 08004KT 1 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 150952Z 06003KT 2 1/8SM VV001 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 150946Z 08004KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 150944Z 08004KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 150941Z 06003KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055

CYLW 150936Z 05003KT 2 1/2SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3056

CYLW 150910Z 04004KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 150900Z 07002KT 1 1/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 150858Z 08003KT 3/4SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3055
CYLW 150822Z 05003KT 3/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3055

Midnight Wednesday

CYLW 150800Z 07002KT 5/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3055
CYLW 150752Z 08002KT 5/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150751Z 07002KT 1SM VV001 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150750Z 08002KT 1 1/8SM OVC001 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150747Z 09002KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150731Z 06002KT 1 1/8SM OVC001 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150726Z 07003KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150700Z 10004KT 1 5/8SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150637Z 05003KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3054
CYLW 150633Z 05003KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3054

10:00 p.m.

CYLW 150600Z 04003KT 4SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3053
CYLW 150543Z 07004KT 3SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3053
CYLW 150526Z 08003KT 2 3/8SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3053


9:00 p.m.

CYLW 150500Z 08002KT 2 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3052
CYLW 150459Z 09002KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3052
CYLW 150457Z 09003KT 3SM OVC002 M01/M03 A3052

8:00 p.m.

CYLW 150400Z 12003KT 3 1/2SM OVC003 M00/M03 A3052
CYLW 150300Z 09003KT 5SM OVC003 M00/M03 A3052
CYLW 150200Z 36002KT 4SM OVC003 M00/M02 A3051
CYLW 150100Z 02002KT 5SM OVC003 00/M02 A3051
CYLW 150000Z 14002KT 5SM OVC003 M00/M03 A3049
CYLW 142345Z 5SM OVC003 M00/M03 A3050
CYLW 142342Z 00000KT 5SM OVC004 M00/M03 A3049
CYLW 142300Z 12002KT 4SM OVC003 M00/M02 A3048
CYLW 142200Z 36004KT 6SM OVC003 M00/M03 A3049
CYLW 142155Z 01005KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3049
CYLW 142154Z 01005KT 6SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3049
CYLW 142136Z 36008KT 6SM OVC003 M01/M03 A3049
CYLW 142110Z 36006KT 6SM OVC004 M01/M03 A3048
CYLW 142100Z 36004KT 6SM OVC005 M00/M03 A3048
CYLW 142056Z 35004KT 6SM BKN005 BKN010 M01/M03
CYLW 142024Z 00000KT 6SM FEW005 SCT008 BKN049 M01/M03
CYLW 142005Z 00000KT 5SM BKN005 OVC049 M01/M03 A3049
CYLW 142000Z 00000KT 4SM FEW003 BKN049 M01/M03 A3049
CYLW 141946Z 00000KT 3SM SCT003 OVC049 M00/M02 A3049


11:33 a.m.

CYLW 141933Z 00000KT 1SM OVC001 OVC049 M01/M03 A3049
CYLW 141921Z 16002KT 5/8SM BKN001 OVC049 M01/M03 A3050
CYLW 141920Z 15002KT 1SM BKN001 OVC049 M01/M03 A3050
CYLW 141919Z 13002KT 1 1/4SM BKN001 OVC049 M01/M03 3050
CYLW 141915Z 11002KT 2 1/2SM FEW002 SCT012 BKN049 M01/M03 A3050
CYLW 141910Z 14002KT 3SM FEW002 SCT005 BKN049 M01/M03 A3051
CYLW 141900Z 00000KT 3SM FEW002 BKN007 OVC049 M01/M03 A3051
CYLW 141858Z 00000KT 3SM FEW002 BKN008 BKN049 M01/M03 A3051
CYLW 141843Z 00000KT 3 1/2SM OVC002 OVC051 M01/M03 A3051

CYLW 141822Z 22002KT 5SM OVC003 OVC051 M01/M03 A3052
CYLW 141800Z 00000KT 5SM BKN006 BKN051 M01/M03 A3051
CYLW 141758Z 00000KT 4SM BKN005 BKN051 M01/M03 A3051
CYLW 141737Z 12002KT 4SM OVC004 OVC050 M01/M04 A3051
CYLW 141726Z 10003KT 2 1/2SM OVC004 OVC050 M02/M04 A3051


CYLW 141718Z 11003KT 2 1/2SM OVC002 OVC050 M02/M04 A3051
CYLW 141712Z 00000KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 OVC050 M02/M04 A3050

CYLW 141707Z 25002KT 1 1/8SM OVC003 OVC050 M02/M04 A3050
CYLW 141702Z 27002KT 1SM OVC004 OVC050 M02/M04 A3050


9:00 a.m.

CYLW 141700Z 00000KT 1 1/8SM FEW002 OVC006 OVC050 M02/M04 A3049

CYLW 141657Z 00000KT 1 1/8SM FEW003 OVC007 OVC050 M02/M04 A3049

CYLW 141650Z 12003KT 1 1/8SM OVC002 OVC007 M02/M04 A3049

CYLW 141635Z 00000KT 1 3/8SM OVC003 M02/M04 A3049
CYLW 141623Z 12002KT 2 3/8SM OVC003 M02/M04 A3048
CYLW 141600Z 14002KT 5SM OVC003 M02/M04 A3048 RMK SLP347
CYLW 141534Z 15004KT 5SM OVC003 M02/M04 A3048
CYLW 141526Z 14005KT 2 1/2SM OVC003 M02/M04 A3048


7:15 a.m.

CYLW 141515Z 12004KT 1 1/2SM OVC002 M02/M04 A3049
CYLW 141513Z 13004KT 1SM OVC002 M02/M04 A3049
CYLW 141511Z 12004KT 3/4SM VV001 M02/M04 A3049
CYLW 141500Z 12003KT 1/4SM VV001 M02/M04 A3049
CYLW 141405Z 00000KT 3/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3048
CYLW 141400Z 15002KT 5/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3048
CYLW 141340Z 00000KT 3/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3048
CYLW 141337Z 00000KT 5/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3048
CYLW 141336Z 10002KT 1SM OVC001 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141331Z 10002KT 1 1/8SM OVC001 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141323Z 12002KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141321Z 11002KT 1 1/2SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141319Z 10002KT 1 3/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3048

CYLW 141316Z 11002KT 1 3/8SM OVC003 M01/M04 A3048

CYLW 141308Z 09003KT 1SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141307Z 09003KT 5/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141300Z 10003KT 5/8SM VV001 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141254Z 10003KT 5/8SM OVC001 M01/M04 A3049
CYLW 141251Z 11003KT 5/8SM OVC002 M01/M04 A3049
CYLW 141244Z 14004KT 1/2SM VV001 M01/M04 A3048
CYLW 141228Z 15003KT 1/8SM VV001 M01/M03 A3048
CYLW 141200Z 13003KT 1/4SM VV001 M01/M03 A3048

4:00 a.m. Wednesday January 14, 2009


It seems to me having the approach in operation to 251' AGL would certainly have helped.
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Last edited by Rotten Apple #1 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Go Guns »

Kudos for your efforts to get to the bottom of the situation.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by 55+ »

The Regulatory Review date for this procedure expired June 05/2008 and it is now notamed as "not authorized" until March 15/2009 which is the next publication cycle. For all intense and purpose that is 9 months and from personal experience there is a lead time of at least 3 months PRIOR to the RR expirery date.

This IAP appears to be a needed approach, NC really fucked up on this consequently heads should roll and nuts cut. It is useless to bitch on this site but senior levels of mgt at the affected airlines need to call 77 Metcalfe Street and speak with John C. himself and demand a reason why the RR date was left to expire without any action. The authority to extend RR dates comes from Transport and has to be authorized by them; perhaps NC asked for an extension but couldn't/didn't give a sufficient reason outside of their own slackness.

That is just terrible service, costly to those affected and compensation should be demanded from Nav Canada – like to hell with you, we will not pay this month’s service charges because your actions or lack thereof had an immediate effect on our airline(s).
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Here is how CHBC News is reporting it tonight:

http://www.chbcnews.ca/index.php?name=N ... &sid=17293

I think we can all excuse the 660 feet "visibility" whoops...

Jonny

p.s. It's currently 300 feet Overcast (0200 Z) and forecast to remain that way for the rest of the forecast period (another 11 hours). 251 feet looks pretty good right now.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

I don't want to favour any of the airlines serving Kelowna airport. I work for one of them. Here's the data as I see it, as unbiased as I can be (E & OE):

On Wednesday:

Air Canada/Jazz had 10 scheduled arrivals and 0 flights made it in.
Westjet had 13 scheduled and 2 or 3 made it in.
Horizon Air had 3 scheduled and 0 flights made it in.

On Thursday:

Air Canada/Jazz had 10 scheduled arrivals and 0 flights made it in.
WestJet had 13 scheduled arrivals and 3 made it in.
Horizon had 3 scheduled flights and 1 made it in.

*********************************************************************

Quote (from the CHBC video link above):
Airport management says a few more flights might have made it in over the past few days if that certification had been in place but insists that overall operations have not seriously been affected.
Really.
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Last edited by Rotten Apple #1 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pratt
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Pratt »

jonny dangerous wrote:If any YLW pilots would like to set the record straight on the ILS situation, you might call Barry McDivitt at 250 861-8233 at CHBC News. I am unwilling to go through the hoops with my employer to get permission to appear on camera.

Perhaps Nav Canada needs to come clean with why the delay.

My wife just heard a radio interview with the airport spokesperson (Jenelle) and she is still calling it a problem with FOG; the worst in 10 years in her words.

Here is a record of the last 36 hours worth of METARS up until 3:34 pm local time Thursday Jan 15, 2008:

It seems to me having the approach in operation to 251' AGL would certainly have helped.[/quote]


I saw Jenelle on the news this evening, she was still spouting the wx line as being the problem.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

13 hours and 28 minutes.

13 hours and 28 minutes.

13 hours and 28 minutes out of a period of 14 hours and 40 minutes. (Start at 7:20 a.m. and end at 10:00 p.m.)

From my calculations for today, Thursday, January 15, for a period of 13 hours and 28 minutes, at Kelowna airport, starting at 7:20 a.m. and ending at 10:00 p.m., the cloud ceiling was at or above 300 feet above ground level. That's almost 13 and a half hours, out of period of 14 and 3/4 hours,

during which there was a pretty good chance an aircraft could have landed if the ILS DME 2, with its decision height of 251 feet above ground, was in effect.

As it stands, by my calculations (correct me if I am wrong), only 4 of 26 scheduled airline flights landed at CYLW today.

I am going to bed now because I have to drive either to Kamloops, Vancouver, Calgary, or take a Greyhound bus to Calgary, tomorrow morning, all because the ILS DME 2 rwy 16 is not in effect.

Is that clear enough for the non-aviators out there?

Good night all.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Okay I'm really going to bed after this post.

By my calculations,

15.4 % of scheduled flights landed at Kelowna today.

The weather was at or above the minimums for the ILS DME 2 (which is out of service)
for 91.8 % of the time after 7:20 a.m. until 10:00 p.m.

Jenelle, explain that one.

G'night.
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I'll give 'em this: they're persistent...

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... .htm#44408

Fog will remain into next week
by Kelly Hayes & Wayne Moore - Story: 44408
Jan 16, 2009 / 5:00 am



It's not what officials at the Kelowna International Airport want to hear --the fog is here to stay for a while.

Gabor Fricska with Environment Canada expects the fog to remain through the weekend and into the early part of next week.

"We have a big ridge of high pressure that has settled over Southern B.C. with lots of warm air aloft and that's created a rather sharp inversion in the valley bottom," says Fricska.

"Add in a mix of moisture from the lake and some moisture from the melting snow, we've developed thick, deep fog. Much thicker than it normally is in Kelowna."

The fog has played havoc with travel, especially at the Kelowna International Airport, where dozens of flights have been delayed or cancelled because of the fog.

Airport spokesperson, Jenelle Turpin, says this has been the worst year at the airport in terms of cancellations and delays in 10 years.

She says the ILS System (Instrument Landing System) which was installed a year years ago, has been operational throughout the entire winter.

"It is capable of landing aircraft to 251 feet and one mile of visibility -- 251 feet is the ceiling and one mile visibility is for the pilot's view out the window.," says Turpin.

"Safety is the number one priority. If the pilot is unable to see the runway on his or her final approach, they will not land the plane."

Turpin says this winter has been challenging at the airport, but adds it is the exception, rather than the rule.

Last year, 97% of our flights were successful in their landings and departures as scheduled. Only 3% were cancelled because of the weather."

She says when there is a window of opportunity, pilots do try to make an approach.

In the meantime, Turpin advises people to check the website to see the status of their flight. If the flight is cancelled and they need to re-book, that can be done on the web or through their airline.

While Kelowna is thick as pea soup, skiers at Big White are basking in the glow of sunshine.

"The layer of low cloud and fog is really only about a couple of thousand feet thick. It is a relatively shallow layer of fog and low cloud, says Fricska."

As for snow, Fricska doesn't expect we will see the white stuff for at least a week.

"As long as the ridge is in place, we won't be seeing any precipitation. Looking at the ridge starting to break down the early part of next week, so I think by the end of next week, Big White should start to get some precipitation again."
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Re: I'll give 'em this: they're persistent...

Post by kevinsky18 »

I've been stuck in Kelowna all week waiting to get out to go to Vancouver in my own plane. I'm VFR so the ILS isn't my issue. It is a bit frustrating as the Hope pass has been beautiful ever since this fog rolled in here.

Instead of talking to the manager of the airport and NAV canada pilots who know what they are talking about need to be calling the news media. The media would love to get their hands on a story that all these delays could have been avoided if it wasn't for TC holding things up.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by GottaFly »

I can't find a ILS/DME 2 RWY 16 chart anywhere in the CAP. Is this a company only chart?
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

The approach is contained in The Restricted Canada Air Pilot (RCAP) which you can google. Seems like approaches not in compliance with TP308 design criteria go in there. But I'm no expert on that, just read that on the web page I googled.

I think the media are getting on to it, slowly. They are fighting a PR campaign by the airport authority that claims the delays/cancellations are due to the worst weather in 10 years. Not sure if the airport authority messed things up somehow. Doesn't make any sense why they don't just point out the Nav Canada angle, unless they're hiding something.

I think YLW has done great things with their money since I moved here six years ago: bigger waiting areas, jetways, more prescreening security lines, post security restaurant and wine store, a Tim Hortons that just opened, more parking spots...but boy oh boy do I ever get my back up when a government appointee and a tax payer funded corporation try to hide the truth.

And because of their misleading press reports, they (the airport manager and his PR person) are going to look pretty silly and amateurish and I would like to think that Mayor Sharon Sheppard will get some answers.

I'm on the bus now (Kelowna to Calgary) so that I don't miss my work shift tomorrow. Otherwise I'd be at home producing a short YouTube video on this whole mess.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by MyWave »

090012 CYLW KELOWNA
CYLW AMEND ILS/DME 2 RWY 16 APCH: REGULATORY REVIEW DATE TO READ 02 JUL 2009

...and everything's back to normal. Simple as that.
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by 55+ »

MyWave wrote:090012 CYLW KELOWNA
CYLW AMEND ILS/DME 2 RWY 16 APCH: REGULATORY REVIEW DATE TO READ 02 JUL 2009

...and everything's back to normal. Simple as that.
Ah..ha. Somebody got the hint - maybe reading this site. All and good. To answer a previous poster all Instrument Approach Procedures have to meet TP308 design criteria but Deviations to Standards can be requested. In this case it is the climb dradient in the missed approach. Also approaches that have a PPR are usually stuffed in the RCAP
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Here's how the Daily Courier is reporting the breaking news:


Low-level landings allowed at Kelowna’s airport J.P. Squire 2009-01-17

Email this articleSend a Letter to the EditorPrinter friendly page Bowing to pressure from airline passengers, Kelowna‘s airport and foggy Okanagan weather, Nav Canada has reinstated a crucial certification allowing low-level landings.
Kelowna International Airport had approval for three arrival approach paths, which allowed aircraft to land when there was 651, 480 and 251 vertical feet of visibility.

However, Nav Canada revoked the 251-foot certification six months ago, pending “a technical review of the approach-path design standards and how they were being applied,” said spokesman Ron Singer in Ottawa.

“While that approach was unavailable, some aircraft couldn‘t land if the cloud ceiling was below 480 or 651 feet,” Singer said.

He added the revocation was not prompted by the instrument landing system (ILS) equipment at Kelowna‘s airport.

“That was still functional and fully serviceable,” he said.
To further complicate things, aircraft must have the proper navigation systems, and pilots must have the proper training and experience to use each of the three paths.

“Due to the extreme weather situation and the customer feedback, along with the agreement by Transport Canada, the approach is being reinstated on an interim basis until we can complete our technical review, which could take several months,” said Singer.
Foggy weather in the Okanagan this week led to the cancellation of dozens of flights at airports in Kelowna and Penticton.

However, a spokesperson for Kelowna‘s airport said Friday that having the 251-foot certification from Nav Canada wouldn‘t have allowed all the Kelowna flights to proceed.

“It would have made a bit of a difference, but not a significant difference this past week due to low-lying fog,” said Jenelle Turpin. “It‘s great that it‘s in; it will help with some of the flights.”

Sam Samaddar, Kelowna International Airport director, noted the best the airport‘s ILS can handle is 251-foot vertical and one-mile horizontal visibility because the airport is in a “mountainous terrain environment.”
The arrival approach paths are like “road maps in the air,” he explained.
“A number of these approaches across the country have expired. Some of them are very, very old. Part of their (Nav Canada) requirement is to assess whether a particular approach is needed or not. That involves consultation with the aviation community, so it is not a simple process.”

Kelowna International Airport officials did inform Nav Canada of the need for the 251-foot certification. Kelowna‘s airport is the 10th busiest in Canada.
Three aircraft that normally overnight in Kelowna couldn‘t land Thursday, resulting in three departure cancellations Friday morning. Another three arrivals and the resulting three departures were cancelled Friday morning before conditions improved.
As of Friday, 57 arrivals and 57 departures had been cancelled since Monday out of a total of 135 arrivals and 135 departures.
The same fog that caused problems at Kelowna‘s airport has grounded all Air Canada Jazz flights into and out of Penticton since Tuesday evening.
Three scheduled daily flights for both Wednesday and Thursday were scuttled, as were the first two departures Friday.

Penticton Regional Airport manager David Allen said a few Air Canada flights that departed Vancouver for the Peach City had to turn back when conditions wouldn‘t allow pilots to land.
“We‘re in the same issue Kelowna‘s in: low visibility,” Allen said. “We just need some break in this cloud.”
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Re: Kelowna Airport delays

Post by matrix »

Wow, good job on getting the appch back online. :prayer:

Turpin & Sammadar should just shut their mouths. They have no idea what they're talking about.

Typical Kelowna Airport garbage.

Next, we should find out why they are the only airport in the whole country (that I know of) that closes the runway when the CRFI is below .25
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