Traffic Advisories...

[Doc]

What's with the long winded advisories? Some of you pontificate like old women reminiscing over tea and biscuits! Do you guys learn to ramble on like this form flight colleges? Or do you like the sound of your own voices?

At least use the common sense to name the relevant airport at the beginning of your "song and dance", "dog and pony" show, so I can ignore the rest of your verbal dysentery.

I use...."Pik traffic, ABC 15 miles south, out of 7 thousand, landing in 5."

Why the term.."conflicting please advise.." If they are conflicting...they WILL advise.
Or....."on 126.7 and 122.8...."...if they heard you, guess what? They are on one of the frequencies you mentioned...

Summer is coming.....it's going to get crazy again on the airways. Keeping it short and sweet will let everyone be heard......thoughts?

[Just another canuck]

I agree 100% and it is the colleges that train you this way... I got in shit from my captain's for radio calls at first. "any conflicting, please advise... blah, blah, blah". I learned this at Confederation and it seems most fresh grads were doing the same. I think this and other calls have been discussed in the ATS forum, such as "tally-ho", "aaaaaaannnnnndddddd","looking for" and "gotcha on the fish finder."

[Dave T]

I fully agree and have flown very busy VFR where everyone is making short concise calls and it works just fine. I think alot can come from IFR guys that don't have to talk on 126.7 that often. Going into an uncontrolled airport having to call 15 minutes prior we're usually still above 20,000 feet. I always feel bad because I know they can probably hear me on the other side of the province so I keep it clear and concise. I hear other guys make a mess of the reports because they are simply not used to making them and don't realize how the spill over can get in the way of many other reports.

Maybe some will read this and work on the radio technique.

[beaverbob]

I agree Doc, My pet peeve is pilots on the west coast that say "Straights Traffic, this is blah blah.
The straights extend from Seattle to Alaska. Where the hell do you mean by straights traffic.
I've always wanted to vent on that one.
Another on is "Coast traffic, this is ------"
What the flock is that all about?
BB

[Just another canuck]

Oh yeah, I've said it before and I'll say it again... no need to use "currently" and "at this time" in the same sentence. "We are currently approaching Point Yankee at this time." What the hell is that?

[SmokinJoe]

My favourite is the "Traffic in the Winnipeg area 150 miles north...." That's a big area!

[Navajo Flyer]

That is a major pet peeve and actually decreases safety as far as I'm concerned. It is so long winded and not nessary that I don't monitor 126.7. I've timed some folks out there and they are repeating their position every 2 minutes. Imagine the frequency congestion if everybody was doing it that often. I thought that was the reason for cruising altitudes. Position reports are the brainchild of some inexperienced flight instructor that thinks it is a "great" idea.

[flyinthebug]

26.7 is usually completely congested with the DUMBEST position reports ive ever heard!
Doc, you gotta remember Roman M up in YRL? He could give a 10 min position report and if you think im kidding, ask around! He was a great guy and one of the nicest people i`ve ever met in this industry.. but damn the guys position reports were ridiculously long and often made as much sense as "straits traffic" would on the coast. (Beaverbob I feel the exact same as you in regards to "straits traffic").. give us a freakin intersection would ya!, so we can at least determine if your in our country! gezzzzz.
My reports are traffic 126.7 this is *ac type*.. level at/decending from-for or climbing to, currently 20 miles sw of XXXX, anticipating the field in 6 mins. Conflicting traffic 26.7 22.8 (or freq) and off. Takes all of about 8 secs and gives FULL information for others that matters!

What ever happened to airmanship!!?
Fly safe all

[scm]

I don't ever use "conflicting traffic please advise" but i'll often be blatant and just ask if there's anyone else here or in the circuit. And most of the time i'll have a weekend warrior or student pilot pipe up who would have otherwise said nothing.

[El Comat]

lol...I started an almost identical thread a couple years ago and got flamed like crazy. Looks like opinions have changed for the better! One of my personal favourites was when you'd hear "Airplane 123 is a Pilatus PC-12...", as if Pilatus or PC-12 alone would not identify the type . Or "XYZ is 40 NAUTICAL miles south...". I do miss flying up north quite a bit, but I don't miss hearing non-stop squeals on 122.8 all summer long. And yes, all FTUs seem to be promoting verbal diarrhea, from the colleges down to Ma and Pa's Flight School. It comes from students learning radio work from instructors who have never been outside the flight training environment so they don't know any better. I talked to my brother-in-law, (student pilot at a local Ma and Pa outfit) about it, and he said he was taught to say the "blah blah blah any conflicting please advise...". He actually thought he had to say that.

Anyway, kudos to ya, Doc, for promoting efficient radio work.

EC

[silentivan]

Yep...many a rant and rave have come from this. Best one (and worst) I heard last summer around the Drumheller area:

".....(you can hear he's transmitting, and lips smacking in the b/g).....traffic in the Drumheller area......This is Cessna 172 XXXX......ummmm....25 naut-i-cal miles (gotta pronounce every syllable properly now) north of the field at.......seven thousand...... and five hundred feet......ummm.....VFR to XXXX.....ummm....estimating in.....ummm....10....correction.....15.....minutes. "

At this point he went into the 'any conflicting traffic, please advise XXXX on...' 3 different frequencies later and a nice lip smacking pause later he finally cuts the PTT button. This whole schpeal took almost 2 minutes (I know because I was practising timed turns in the area at the time). But seriously...who's teaching and what are they teaching these days?

[Donald]

Is confliction a real word?

Detail Information
User Name: Beauchamp, Carol
Date: 2009/01/29
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: Aviation Enforcement
Narrative: WJA150 was instructed to fly a 3 minute outbound leg while in the hold in order to provide separation with JZA359 descending underneath. WJA150 turned inbound after 1 minute, creating a confliction. The pilot realized his mistake and turned outbound. The controller achieved vertical separation between the aircraft when lateral separation was approximately 5.5 miles in an area where 5 miles is required.

[beaverbob]

Here is my prelanding call:

Bvr SKY approaching sumspot from north landing 5 minutes; or

SKY landing Cortez bay in 5

Altitudes and distances don't make much difference. I you here this type of report you know if you are in the vicinity of this plane by where its landing.

[Doc]

FTB...indeed I remember Roman! He couldn't squeeze in three advisories between RL an PM....they were THAT loooonnnnngggg!

[flyinthebug]

lol Doc. Yup, thats Roman:) He was one the of best CPs ive ever known as far as being a nice guy.. but damn his position reports would last for what seemed hours! i.e. Greetings everyone on one twenty six point seven and one twenty two point eight this is G-xxxx we are a Piper Navajo Chieftain PA 31-350 with two spinning fans (yes he would say that) and we are currently airborne of pik for red lake next..we will be travelling southbound heading 185 degrees with a bearing to stn of 032 degrees..then he would start to really ramble..(30 secs later) that entire speel again, and then he`d really start going on about his altitude, what he was climbing or descending to, and how much fuel he had onboard, # of pax etc etc and im not exaggerating lol. One things forsure, you always knew where he was lol! He was indeed a great guy though!

Beaverbob.. The only thing missing from your call IMHO would be altitude. When I used to bang back and forth across the strait and the vis was 1 mile (ya right) it was good to know where those other four company aircraft were and their altitude. Chum was the intersection inbound to YVR harbour, where I liked to hear where everyone was and what altitude. Snake transit used to be 700 ft westbound and 500 eastbound..Your call is ideal but id suggest an altitude addition if your burning back and forth across the strait nanaimo-YVR. Like i said, just IMHO.

Fly safe all.

[2R]

Sounds like someone needs a lesson from the Big Hughie school of radiotelephoney held at the lakeview in red

[jamesbay]

Yeah, on topic, I once remember a guy that frequently ended with " any conflictions", please advise.. what the hell is that?! Or been hearing this one too much lately,ABC out of xxx altitude "expecting" the field in x minutes, WTF!

[beaverbob]

I agree FTB, was just saying, if you're in the area and a pilot forgets the altitude you at least know if you are in his vicinity. For example in my cortez example you know if you are near Cortez.
BB

[flyinthebug]

Yeah, on topic, I once remember a guy that frequently ended with " any conflictions", please advise.. what the hell is that?! Or been hearing this one too much lately,ABC out of xxx altitude "expecting" the field in x minutes, WTF!

I was taught since my first solo back in 1984 to end my phraseology of a position report with "any conflicting its xyz 26.7 22.8".. Its does sound kinda "odd" to say "conflictions" but maybe he likes that word?.

Expecting?.. whats wrong with that? I say "anticipating the field in 6"..many others use the same phraseology. Whats wrong with the word "expecting". I can see why a previous thread about this could have become a flame session. People take it very personally when others judge them on their radio work.

Fly safe.

[flyinthebug]

Agreed Beaverbob.

And FYI, I did my ppl @ Skycraft Air Transport in YOO back in 84 and they were driving DC3s and instructing as well. Thats who taught me the whole "conflicting traffic" thing. Is that truly now a thing of the past? People seem to be chuckin a few stones at my phraseology. Update me if im wrong to say "conflicting traffic" in a position report. Thanks

Fly safe all.

[Just another canuck]

flyinthebug, do you think it's really necessary to say "any conflicting please advise"... don't you think it's safe to assume anyone listening would advise you anyway? And if you are making the radio call on two frequencies, then there's really no need to repeat what frequency you are making it on. Because anyone listening, whether they have one or two radios, knows what frequency you are on.

The point is everyone has their own habits when making radio calls and in your case, you've been saying the same thing for 25 years... "any conflicting, please advise, XXXX, 126.7, 122.8" and I don't think any of this sentence is completely necessary.

No one way is right or wrong, as long as it works... but it is nice to keep things short.

[Doc]

To say "conflicting traffic" is really redundant. Who the hell else would you be talking to? I'm pretty sure the only guy I heard use the word "conflictions" was Roman!

I got passed some traffic yesterday by YXL FSS that really made me wonder. "Our" traffic was 20 miles BEHIND us, going 20-30 kts slower....and we wonder why the frequencies are all tied up? I'm going to start replying with lines like..."Gee, we'll really keep a sharp eye out for him...."

[cplanedriver]

LOL I remember Hughie given a long winded newb shit over the air a few years back. After the report from a guy advertising that he was flying "a Cessna 185 on floats bla bla bla he hollered "nobody gives a shit about that, tell em where ya are and where yer goin and how high"....I think it worked for a lot of guys n gals for awhile....think some need a refresher Hugh....Oh and I honestly would speak up if we had a potential conflict...if I could shoehorn a word in sideways.....you don';t need to ask me to "advise" ...

[cplanedriver]

Are they also "really" teaching that "nautical mile" crap....

[jamesbay]

flyinthebug, yeah I get and have used "conflicting traffic" before. The statement "expecting"..well what are ya expecting, the field to pop out in front of you, I get "anticipating", I guess it struck me dumb.