Interesting quotes from "Sully"

[Barkaie]

a different view of all this.. our entire society, is switching into "experts", back in the day you go to a doctor and he would deal with your problem, today no two doctors can cure the same disease, you are always sent to a specialist. so no, I wasn't trained on the astro compass or how to rebuild the pt6.. but you can say we are going with the trend and "specializing" on more need to know basis just because the machines are getting more complex and there is more detail to learn. the planes are safer, more efficient etc etc.. Its not my fault I was born into this era, and I am gaining as much info from my mentors and instructors about how they are flying, but also adapting myself to what companies are needing from pilots today.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The complexity of the machines today compared to the piston pounding era is quite different.

As an example we can compare what a crew had to know and what they had to do to fly a DC6 compared to an Airbus or a Boeing Jet is vastly different and requires totally different training to fly them.

I personally think the old piston pounders were more difficult to learn to fly and for sure it was more work.

[bezerker]

I agree with most of the comments posted about aviation becoming easier. But, some facts may be exagerated though (back when I was a kid, we had to walk 20 miles uphill...).

I think hand bombing high speed aircraft went out of style a long, long time ago.

In 1958 Sperry SP-30 and Bendix PB-20, both offered either three-axis autostabilization, full three-axis control with heading, height and speed lock or coupling to V.O.R. and ILS for navigation and approach. The first airline autolandings began in 1965.

There has been a lot of coffee sipping in airline cockpits for many years now.

If you old guys are talking about the times before that, well.....

[x-wind]

Meat, really like what you wrote.

But why the .. does everyone with experience and intelligence give up.

"But I think nowadays the smart guy is the one who gets onto the big plastic (I would have said big iron but it doesn't sound right anymore) as soon as possible and hopefully gets into management as soon as he can after that so he can get down to patting his own back and taking weekends off along with the other office guys, which is where the REAL money is."

This doesn't actually point out a give up attitude, but between the lines there's some disgust.

Pretty sad with your ideals.... Keep ranting, fairly inspiring. Perhaps some will age before our time, still motivate, and go about making some changes.

I'd throw money at someone like you dedicated to getting some sort of union going.


.....Thanks for maybe a bit of a reality check bezerker

[Dockjock]

Hilarious rants.
We are responsible for safety, comfort, and economy of operations. On time if possible, please.
The tools are different but hey we don't use dot-matrix printers anymore do we? Oh, right.....

[FamilyGuy]

All well and good but how many of you ole timers can re-program the FMS WHILE texting you GF about dinner plans and reading ACARS???? Huh..what's a text message? Kidding of course.

Nice posts but METARS and TAF's? FL320? The story lost all credibility when you mixed new with old. SA's and FL310 baby!

[Meatservo]

Berzerker, this isn't really what I'm talking about, and I think you realise that. I think I'm done here. I'm not actually all that old, and I wanted to believe being a pilot was a good use of a man's life, even a thinking man like myself. I have met all kinds of intelligent men and women who believed the same thing. I deliberately concentrated on learning to do things the hard way. I wasted a lot of time fucking around in Otters and Twin Otters and reading books about hero pilots and sailors and wishing I could be like them someday, and now I am qualified for exactly the same job in mainstream aviation as someone who got their pilots' license four years ago. I no longer believe I made the right choice. Being a pilot or a "professional navigator" which is really what the term "pilot" means ( I might as well be joking), is no longer a "profession" by the strictest definition of the word.

The reason nobody tries to start a professional organisation is because there is no way anyone could integrate such a thing into Transport Canada and their American masters' present system, and because there are probably no pilots who aren't currently too busy trying to eke out a lower middle class existence to bother. I just noticed Captain Sullenberger's comments were received with some shock by the media today, when he and everybody else have been conscious of this problem for years. Who couldn't have seen this coming?

I am disgusted, X-wind. I'm not interested in a union. I'm interested in a professional organisation that can help us get our collective pride back. I'm tired of watching the world get ruined by "deputy chief senior executive vice president"-type people who produce nothing and spend their time making paperwork and rewarding themselves and undermining the people who create their reason for being in the first place. Someday when the economy has totally disintegrated, maybe the people who can actually MAKE or DO something that takes some commitment and brains will earn a little respect once again. In the meantime, I think I will advise young people to become "businessmen".

[Meatservo]

Hilarious rants.
We are responsible for safety, comfort, and economy of operations. On time if possible, please.
The tools are different but hey we don't use dot-matrix printers anymore do we? Oh, right.....

Too bad the pay is different too. When you can eat "responsibility" I'll be proud to accept it.

[FamilyGuy]

Meat, ain't payback a bitch. Seriously, all the nerds over the decades who became accountants or lawyers and now airline CEO's and CFO's are now extracting their vengence upon you lofty fucks who actually enjoy the view from the office. Shame on you all.....

Actually though it does make business sense. Highly paid highly skilled HUMAN workers are expensive$$$. Capitalism demands that those salaries be reduced - usually hidden behind public and shareholder friendly technological expenses in the name of "safety". Capital expenses in equipment are usually a one time shot - maybe the occasional software upgrade. Equipment never gets sick, never takes holidays and most importantly never says NO - we can't fly today in this weather etc.

Eventually, capitalism will reduce us all to McJobs. I wonder how we will afford to use their services once we all make minimum wage? How will they continue to make a profit? Didn't Henry Ford have a saying about this................

[B-rad]

Just watched The National and saw this story being reported on. Pretty much the same thing as you read in the first few posts then they ended it by showing the starting wage at US airways $26,000 and Air Canada $37,000. They basically were saying that without decent pay, they are attracting 300 hour Pilots rather then the 3000 hours needed when they first went for interviews and this is a huge safety concern for passengers.

As much as it's good to see this getting a little attention, I don't think it is going to do anything to make changes. I can see this topic not really being in the minds of passengers once it stops getting the media attention if they even care much about it to begin with. Do we expect people to demonstrate for higher wages for us? What do you think is an achievable goal out of this?

[. .]

Just watched The National and saw this story being reported on. Pretty much the same thing as you read in the first few posts then they ended it by showing the starting wage at US airways $26,000 and Air Canada $37,000. They basically were saying that without decent pay, they are attracting 300 hour Pilots rather then the 3000 hours needed when they first went for interviews and this is a huge safety concern for passengers.

As much as it's good to see this getting a little attention, I don't think it is going to do anything to make changes. I can see this topic not really being in the minds of passengers once it stops getting the media attention if they even care much about it to begin with. Do we expect people to demonstrate for higher wages for us? What do you think is an achievable goal out of this?

I don't expect the people to take up arms and storm parliament for hire pilot wages. It would sure be nice not to hear people talking about greedy pilots bankrupting companies.

From top to bottom, you'd be very hard pressed to find an aviation job out there today that didn't pay better 20 years ago. That to me is absolutely insane. I'm not talking in inflated dollars either.

[CanadianEh]

Love your T-shirt if you are a girl lets go out some night.

Haha, no I'm a guy.. but pm me if you want a hook up and you're in YOW.

[Driving Rain]

Starting wages US Airways $26,000 Air Canada $37,000 I'm assuming they didn't convert.
Air Canada's starting wage would be $29,520 US dollars

- Pilots took a 30 per cent pay-rate cut on the Embraer aircraft, 20 per cent on A320 aircraft, and a 15 per cent on all other aircraft. - By comparison, Robert Milton took a 13.5 per cent salary reduction from 2002-2005. During the same period, Milton's annual compensation grew by 72 per cent, and nearly doubled (+93 per cent) from 2004 to 2005.

[Meatservo]

Family guy, we are watching a weird live version of "office space" and "idiocracy" unfolding before our very eyes. I used to work for a commuter airline in a large city and had lots of contact with the passengers and had the occasion to hear about the years of trials involved in trying to get an office with a view.

It actually won't be too long before they invent computers that are better at everything than people are, and we'll become a race of farmers and stockholders and a whole lot of unemployed. I'm almost excited about it.

[North Shore]

Thing is, Meat, when you go to a place that does have high training costs, and a professional guild (try the UK - not sure if membership in the GAPAN is mandated, tho) then they still bitch about terms and conditions - take a look at the Pprune forums for that.
What I think it is, in society, is a lack of appreciation for things that are hard to do. Family Guy mentions nerds - I get a mental picture of a mid '60s NASA engineer, complete with a slide rule, pocket protector, and horn-rimmed glasses..Ha ha ha.. but those guys put men on the moon, f'r fcuk's sake! It's the people who could never even dream of doing that, because they don't have the smarts, imagination or work ethic to succeed at it, that became the middle-management type, and decided to cut everyone else down to their mediocre size by driving salaries down. I suspect the same is true in many other fields of work. Ever look at the salary for Drs and nurses vs Hospital administrators? I'd be willing to bet that over at 'ShipCanada' the deep-sea skippers complain about what the management at their companies make for chasing paper around their desks and attending meetings..
To go back to aviation, though, we are, in a sense, our own worst enemies. Visit me at work one day, and chances are, I'll be sitting around waiting for the phone to ring for a dispatch. You don't see the 2 minute turns with full loads at 150' in 30kts in 1/2mile vis. Visit a 747-400 at fl360, and they're sitting there, drinking coffee, reading the paper waiting for the next checkpoint to arrive. When the sh!t hits the fan, there's a flurry of activity, and the problem gets resolved (or not )and then it's back to sitting around. Mr. Desk-bound-paper-pusher never sees that side of it; compared to his busy-at-the desk-all-day work life, we do an easy job, and thus don't deserve the "large" salaries we get paid.

ETA: Could you do anything else, though? I sit and think all of the time about how I'd like to get out of the game, and into something that's safer, gives me more regular time at home with Mrs and the littl'uns, and holidays in the summer, and it always comes down to those damn aeroplanes - the smell, feel, view, excitment, romance etc... the little boy in me can't resist.

[Cat Driver]

As soon as the stock market gets headed in the right direction I will be making enough money in my new venture to hire one of you guys to fly me around.

What kind of an airplane do you want me to get you?

[B-rad]

Husky on floats please!

[Cat Driver]

No that is for our personal use and fun, the next machine in our plans will be a Bell 206 with pop out floats.

I was thinking of maybe a Honda Jet, we looked at one at Oshkosh and that looks like a nice get places fast toy.

I'm never going to renew my instrument rating so one of you guys would have to fly with me for insurance purposes.

[Meatservo]

I'm thinking something like a piaggio Avanti, but with a boat hull and sponsons, jet engines, also tilt rotors, galley, maybe a gatling gun, cloaking device and cappuccino maker. And gold plated taps and toilet seats. And spinny-rims and a good stereo. And no passenger seats.

[Cat Driver]

Add Auto-Suck and it would be perfect meatservo.

[Stan Darsh]

Whoooo! I can't wait until I get my first $18 000/year job, so I can no longer consider myself one of the best and brightest of my generation! My self esteem and ego are shattered.

[x-wind]

If it doesn't kill you it'll make you stronger... so make sure there is a food bank around. ^

You guys are right on the money. I've been thinking about an Avanti for the past week for some strange reason. But then when I considered it for 10min and decided on the Honda Jet.

This was before I saw your replies. Is there something from Russia that fits the bill?

.. I have to stop day dreaming writing the A's tomorrow morning.

[Meatservo]

There's a plane from Russia that I really, really like. I can't remember what it's called. Actually it probably isn't from russia. It looked sort of twin-otterish, but it had a rear cargo door like a shorts skyvan. Its cockpit windows sort of looked like the windows on a 1900, and it had retractable gear. and the coolest thing was, it had a little CRANE on rails on the cabin roof so it could pick up loads through the big door on the back and cart 'em inside!! I think it had garretts. Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about?

[iflyforpie]

If they had a licence worth anything at all, and weren't trained at some structured program "Puppy Mill" school ... (unlike the British Commonwealth Training Program) they should have a solid grip on their asses with both hands before they ever get to the line.
Fog

[early morning rant]
The BCATP was a puppy mill in every sense of the word. It killed more airmen in the first few years of war than the Germans did. Some 25,000 Commonwealth aircrew died in non-operational accidents during the course of the War (that's not too far short of the entire pilot population of Canada). This doesn't include injuries or wrecked and damaged aircraft.

But what else would you expect? A small, impoverished core group of officers slightly bolstered by some recruits from civilian aviation who's job it was to teach new recruits first how to fly, then how to teach, in minimal time. There wasn't time or manpower to get students to 3,000 hours before they took command of a Lanc or a Catalina.

Yet these old timers are complaining that us young whippersnappers who have 3,000 hours aren't good enough to captain these modern, relatively docile aircraft with a load of tourists in the back. Funny thing is, all the damaged aircraft I've repaired in the last few years have been wrecked by pilots who were over 50.

If you transported a Lanc pilot from 1944 into the cockpit of a 777 and then told him what the plane was capable of, his jaw would drop in amazement that an aircraft that weighs 300 tons could fly at nearly the speed of sound and then land itself. His jaw would drop even lower when he heard that somehow aviation has degraded over the last 65 years and many wish for 'the good old days'

[/early morning rant]

[Pratt X 3]

There's a plane from Russia that I really, really like. I can't remember what it's called. Actually it probably isn't from russia. It looked sort of twin-otterish, but it had a rear cargo door like a shorts skyvan. Its cockpit windows sort of looked like the windows on a 1900, and it had retractable gear. and the coolest thing was, it had a little CRANE on rails on the cabin roof so it could pick up loads through the big door on the back and cart 'em inside!! I think it had garretts. Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about?

Is this it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Arava