CF-18s intercepted plane on eve of Obama visit

[teacher]

The Russians wanted first look at the new US Prez!

CF-18s intercepted plane on eve of Obama visit
Updated Fri. Feb. 27 2009 8:52 AM ET

The Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- Canadian fighter jets were scrambled to intercept a snooping Russian bomber in the Arctic on the eve of U.S. President Barack Obama's visit to Ottawa.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay is holding a news conference this morning with the chief of the Defence staff and the commander of Norad to announce the news.

CF-18s took off from Cold Lake, Alta., on Feb. 16 after Norad detected the bomber headed for Canadian airspace. The aircraft never did enter North American airspace, but officials suggest the timing of the flight was suspect.

Russian aircraft regularly probed into North American airspace during the Cold War and Canadian and American fighters routinely tracked the snoopers and escorted them back into international air space.

Such flights were suspended for years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, but resumed in recent years as Russia pushed its claim on the Arctic and oil wealth allowed the country to spend more on its military.

Last summer, then-foreign affairs minister David Emerson said Russian intrusions into Canadian air space had greatly increased.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories

[Doc]

Can you imagine the man hours of maintenance required to keep the old "Bears" air worthy? Love to know the fuel burn on those things. Surprised Russia can even afford to fly them!

You can have all your modern stealth technology.....I would love to get my paws on a Bear!

[The Barrel Man]

I wish the Caravan had counter-rotating propellers, or wait the Pilatus, or wait, the Turbine Otter. Yeah that would look bad ass!

[light chop]

BadAss MoFo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Marina.jpg

[Rockie]

Where was this Bear approaching Canadian airspace? Unless it was off the West Coast I find it unlikely any fighter taking off from Cold Lake would reach the edge of Canadian airspace in time to intercept anything but a hot air balloon.

[youngtimer]

CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife said the plane was intercepted about 190 km northeast of Tuktoyaktuk, N.W.T.

I'm willing to bet the Russians just chuckled when the big, bad Canadians came running. As much as I'm happy to hear we're trying to make use of our 'north' and assert some sovereignty of our borders, I'm afraid it's too little, too late and we'll lose most of it.

[Rockie]

CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife said the plane was intercepted about 190 km northeast of Tuktoyaktuk, N.W.T.

I'm willing to bet the Russians just chuckled when the big, bad Canadians came running. As much as I'm happy to hear we're trying to make use of our 'north' and assert some sovereignty of our borders, I'm afraid it's too little, too late and we'll lose most of it.

That's interesting, the CADIZ is 150 nm due north of Tuktoyaktuk running east and west, so the postion reported by CTV puts the Bear within the Canadian CADIZ. That point is also about 1100 nm from Cold Lake. Two plus hours flying from wheels up, and then they have to think about landing for gas soon even with 3 external tanks unless there happened to be a tanker nearby.

[Bushav8er]

Where was this Bear approaching Canadian airspace? Unless it was off the West Coast I find it unlikely any fighter taking off from Cold Lake would reach the edge of Canadian airspace in time to intercept anything but a hot air balloon.

Where do you think Russia is?

Try further north like,over the Arctic/Yukon area, within range of Cold Lakes 18s, which also have in-flight refuelling capabilities.

[Dr.Piper]

I just loved the certain news captions that said Russian Jet bomber. I was thinking a Tu-160 or a Tu-22m3 but then they said a Bear. And I thought... thats not a jet! Get your facts straight.

Must have been a slow news day. It was just a coincidence.

[Rockie]

Where was this Bear approaching Canadian airspace? Unless it was off the West Coast I find it unlikely any fighter taking off from Cold Lake would reach the edge of Canadian airspace in time to intercept anything but a hot air balloon.

Where do you think Russia is?

Try further north like,over the Arctic/Yukon area, within range of Cold Lakes 18s, which also have in-flight refuelling capabilities.

I have no idea where Russia is, but I know I can't see it from my house. It could be off the West Coast for all I know. But then again, I remember reading reports of how Bears used to be intercepted off the American and Canadian east coasts, so maybe it's out near Bermuda.

I also heard somewhere that CF-18's were capable of air refuelling, but I always thought there also had to be a tanker in order to do that. Do we keep any of those orbiting up in the high arctic 24/7 waiting for the day it's needed?

[looproll]

Do we keep any of those orbiting up in the high arctic 24/7 waiting for the day it's needed?

The US has them available out of Alaska, and you'd be surprised how many US military aircraft are flying through Canadian airspace at any given moment.

[f.o.ever]

To swing this thread in another direction....
Does anyone know the aerodynamic or performance advantages to the counter rotating props.

[Hedley]

I also heard somewhere that CF-18's were capable of air refuelling

I suspect his sarcasm is sailing far above most of your heads ....

Rockie has 1000 hours in hornets Ask ..

P.S. Hey Rockie, remember a certain red-haired General OB?
I can say "hi" to him for you, if you want.

[Bushav8er]

Just found it funny to hear the comment about "off the west coast" when talking about Russia.

Aren't the 18s in Yellowknife and Inuvik Cold Lake birds? Or aren't there anymore quick response units?

[Donald]

[Skyhunter]

Rockie,,, tankers seem to be more available these days

[matt777]

The US has tankers for situations like this Rockie

[x-wind]

So is there an insinuation that Russia wanted to bomb Ottawa when Obama was here. Lets all focus on this plausible idea for awhile... yep definitely need a bigger military.. or maybe just US missiles... IN SPACE!

Didn't the cons just throw some money at getting an air to air tanker up and going again. We use to have that capability in the 80's.

[Rockie]

The US has tankers for situations like this Rockie

Granted, the USAF has KC-10's fitted with a probe and drogue system that the hornet can use, but its use is predicated on a few things.

1. There happens to be one in Alaska.
2. It happens to be on quick alert with a crew standing by.
3. Someone in NORAD tasks the thing to launch and provide support for a couple of Canadian CF-18's on an intercept mission in Canadian airspace.

I don't think we can assume the stars aligned like that although it is possible. In any event, Inuvik's not that far away and they should be able to land there. It just means they don't get a lot of time for the actual intercept after a 2+ hour transit time.

Maybe the Bear just hung around and waited for them.

[dji]

FIRE ZE MISSILE

[teacher]

Just to clarify............ (note the date!)

First Airbus refueller arrives in Trenton
by Holly BridgesDownload article (PDF)

2 May 2007
Vol. 10, No. 12

The ability for Canada to deploy its fighter jets anywhere in the world, and refuel them along the way, is now stronger than ever.

The first CC-150 Polaris (Airbus A310) to be fully modified for air-to-air-refuelling (AAR) has arrived back home at 8 Wing Trenton after completion of final modifications in Germany. It returned at the end of February with the second CC-150 Polaris (Airbus A310) slated to arrive in June.

“The AAR mission capability that we will ultimately have will be greatly enhanced,” says Major Duncan Reid, a CC-150 Polaris pilot, one of the first to be trained in the new AAR role. “We have one crew that is ready to commence air-to-air-refuelling with additional crews identified for training as well.”

Strategic air-to-air refuelling (SAAR) is a core capability for the CF and the Air Force. It provides efficient, safe and timely intercontinental deployment for our CF-18 fighter aircraft and crews whenever they are called upon to support international operations.

The Air Force does employ its KC-130 Hercules aircraft from 435 Squadron at 17 Wing Winnipeg for tactical air-to-air-refuelling, however, the capability has its limitations. The Hercules is a slower aircraft than the CC-150 Polaris, carries less fuel and must be pre-positioned ahead of time for long range AAR missions.

“As much as the CC-130 Hercules can perform tactical air-to-air-refuelling, you have to know ahead of time what you want to do and when because the Hercules takes longer and flies at a slower speed,” says Lieutenant-Colonel Yvan Choinière, commanding officer of 437 Squadron. “If the CF is thinking about deploying its fighter jets worldwide, we would be very limited in our capacity to do that using only the CC-130 Hercules tankers.

“These two SAAR aircraft give the CF the chance to deploy the fighter force anywhere in the world on short notice. Your reach is unlimited.”

The arrival of the first fully modified Airbus is arguably the most significant milestone in the project being carried out by a consortium of Airbus Germany and Lufthansa Technik in Dresden, Germany.

The Air Force will spend the next few months testing the SAAR modifications and hopes to declare both CC-150 Polaris aircraft ready for their first operational mission by the end of the year.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Commun/ml- ... sp?id=3185

[Labour Board]

Hmm last I recall Canada was a part of NORAD so in theory could an American fighter just as easily responded as a Canadian without threatening our sovernty?

[AuxBatOn]

Guys, look up 435 Sqn. They had the A-A refuelers for a while (hercs it is)

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

The article says the fighters were "scrambled to intercept a snooping Russian bomber". That seems a little dramatic considering the Russians notify the Canadian government prior to the event. Good for the defence industry I suppose.

[Rockie]

The whole point of doing those kinds of flights is to guage the response of the country whose airspace you're flirting with. It is a game played on both sides, and there is nothing wrong with it. It keeps the military sharp. There is no way the Russians would warn the American or Canadian government first and neither do the Americans warn Russia or China when they do it. Why would they?

In an example like this, the Russian bear bomber (that has a radar cross section as big as the Queen Mary) boldly flies along our airspace at high altitude patiently waiting the three hours it takes for a pair of Canadian fighters to make their way up from Cold Lake. It obediently leaves the area escorted by our jets when they arrive, but surprisingly enough it still has about 12 hours of gas left. So when the jets turn around to land for gas (or air refuel if there happens to be a tanker nearby) the bear is free to come back and flirt some more. But the mission is accomplished so they probably go home.

I just don't see what the big hubbub in the press is for, whether Obama was here the day after or not. Last July Russia was reported to have 472 ICBM's carrying a total of 2018 independantly targetable nuclear warheads that can reach Washington in 30 minutes. They also had 288 SLBM's aboard nuclear submarines carrying 1488 nuclear warheads capable of reaching Washington much sooner than 30 minutes notice.

I think Peter McKay is being a little too melodramatic about this lonely Bear.