C & P, Winnipeg Free press.
KEYSTONE Air Service's planes have crashed twice in the last few years, but now it claims to be the safest airline in the province.
Operations manager George Riopka said the airline, which flies six days a week from Winnipeg to Swan River and also offers charter service, is believed to be the first of its size in the country to begin using a safety system approved by Transport Canada.
Riopka said Transport Canada has ordered all small airlines to implement the Safety Management Systems (SMS) into their companies by 2008, but because of Keystone's past history, the airline decided to do it now.
"It doesn't guarantee an accident won't happen, but we're doing more than any other company of our size," he said yesterday.
"We're the safest small airline in the province right now. We're on the leading edge of risk management."
A Transport Canada official was unavailable for comment yesterday. But the Transport Canada website says SMS is a system which "integrates operations and technical systems with financial and human resource management to achieve safe operations." The system also puts more emphasis on having all employees look for ways to improve safety.
Transport Canada says it believes SMS may help reduce the accident rate for aircraft because the majority of today's accidents are now caused by human or organizational lapses instead of by equipment failures.
Riopka said it cost his company $30,000 to implement the system, but the money is worth it.
"It's a self-auditing, self-checking system which goes on in our day-to-day business," he said.
Six American fisherman and a pilot were injured when a Keystone plane crash-landed at a busy Winnipeg intersection in June 2002.
One of the fishermen, 79-year-old Chester Jones, later died of his injuries. In 2000, eight people, including the pilot, were injured when a Keystone plane crash-landed in the Assiniboine Forest after fuel was cut off to the engine.
Keystone has six aircraft and 16 employees, including eight pilots.
kevin.rollason@freepress.mb.ca
Keystone
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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speedbrake
- Rank 0
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:09 pm
What an absolute load of CRAP!!! It's not hard to be a safe airline. All you have to do is carry enough gas to get the job done. At least that USED to be a requirement? Methinks they would be far better off to keep a low profile.....until memories start to fade? I mean, how long has it been since they pulled one of the biggest phuque ups in recent history? And now this moron is standing on his "soap box", beating his chest making these kind of claims? It's time for a reality check there Mr.Riopka! Don't you think? I, for one wouldn't let my family set foot in one of your airplanes! You can suck up to Transport all you want (and that's what you're doing!) but if you think it makes your's the "safest" op in the Province.....because you've gone how long without a loss of life accident?....what's it been? Less than two years? And the whole thing is a bloody pitty! Keystone was getting back on track, then they have a moron "mouth peice" stand up and make claims that are absolute CRAP!
Dont screw up for the next five to ten years, THEN tell everyone you run a safe ship......Gawd, the SMELL!!!!
Dont screw up for the next five to ten years, THEN tell everyone you run a safe ship......Gawd, the SMELL!!!!
And thankyou Transport Canada for bringing us yet another of your great ideas. First we all have to take courses on "Clean Wing" concept thanks to Air Ontario's total lack of common sense....now it's SMS, brought to us by some airline's total lack of ability to ensure they can operate withing the guidlines of MEL's and fuel requirements! Because TC has finally learned that accidents these days are not caused by mechanical failures, but by human factors....sure glad we have you guys looking out for us? Wouldn't want to beleive that a simple pilot would know enough to carry enough gas withour first taking some sort of course, forced upon us by the good folks at TC....who have never actually bent an airplane themselves?? Let's see, there was a DHC6 shunt near YHM many years back, and who can name a TC inspector who has never scratched the paint on an airplane....I know of at least one who could have used more fuel on one occasion?
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centerstored
- Rank 4
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:16 pm
What a joke! It's all smoke and mirrors! You have to actually follow the CARS to make SMS work. SMS is about making a company wide shift to adopting a safety minded operation. Just because you get TC's SMS stamp of approval doesn't mean you'll actually carry enough gas to YIV or that you'll actually miss like every other operator when the weather goes for $hite. I'm sure having SMS under your belt won't change your company culture...which is what got you in all this $hit.
"we can't do this trip it's not safe today...that's ok, the owner will do it"
"we can't do this trip it's not safe today...that's ok, the owner will do it"
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DragEraser
- Rank 3
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- Location: CYYC
- Contact:
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
No wonder so many companies are cutting corners with maintenance, pilot training and disregarding the common sense rules of safety.
The cost of all the B.S. courses and compliance to TC's ever expanding paper work requirements are such a non productive waste of time and money that safety degrades rather than improves.
Some years back I was on the receiving end of a B.S. session with a TC Inspector telling me that I should attend his PDM course that was going to be held at our airport, I said I was to busy trying to keep up with all the other stuff that TC demanded from my school. He got huffy and told me it would soon be compulsary to have the PDM course, so finally I got fed up with the conversation and said xxx what did you learn from the time you were skud running and killed your two passengers in the Beaver....
...he is now in top management at TC go figure.
What I sad situation.
Cat
The cost of all the B.S. courses and compliance to TC's ever expanding paper work requirements are such a non productive waste of time and money that safety degrades rather than improves.
Some years back I was on the receiving end of a B.S. session with a TC Inspector telling me that I should attend his PDM course that was going to be held at our airport, I said I was to busy trying to keep up with all the other stuff that TC demanded from my school. He got huffy and told me it would soon be compulsary to have the PDM course, so finally I got fed up with the conversation and said xxx what did you learn from the time you were skud running and killed your two passengers in the Beaver....
...he is now in top management at TC go figure.
What I sad situation.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I'm sure the guy who put the Caravan in at Pele Island had passed the clean wing exam.
I'm sure the Caravan driver at Summer Beaver had passed the CFIT exam.
NO DISRESPECT INTENDED HERE!!
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that a guy would have an EGO as big as Mr. Riopka, to beak off the way he did about how SAFE his airline is! It's the same taste I get after cleaning Cat's litter box.....with my tongue!
As for PDM, there Cat, isn't that knowing what to do when your ass starts munching on your seat??
I'm sure the Caravan driver at Summer Beaver had passed the CFIT exam.
NO DISRESPECT INTENDED HERE!!
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that a guy would have an EGO as big as Mr. Riopka, to beak off the way he did about how SAFE his airline is! It's the same taste I get after cleaning Cat's litter box.....with my tongue!
As for PDM, there Cat, isn't that knowing what to do when your ass starts munching on your seat??
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shitdisturber
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- Location: If it's Monday it's got to be somewhere shitty
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stallnfall
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
I think this comment best describes what creates unsafe working conditions.
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I'm sure having SMS under your belt won't change your company culture...which is what got you in all this $hit.
"we can't do this trip it's not safe today...that's ok, the owner will do it"
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In my experience I have not seen to many Chief Pilots or Ops Managers who have changed that type of problem, at least for any lenght of time so if that was true for this company in the past will things really change?
Cat
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I'm sure having SMS under your belt won't change your company culture...which is what got you in all this $hit.
"we can't do this trip it's not safe today...that's ok, the owner will do it"
---------------------------------------------------------------
In my experience I have not seen to many Chief Pilots or Ops Managers who have changed that type of problem, at least for any lenght of time so if that was true for this company in the past will things really change?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
"What do you MEAN, you WONT do the trip? Am I surrounded by bloody WIMPS??? CHRIST MAN, it's fifty and a quarter, a little freezing rain, and the wind is 260 at 70, gusting 80! What do you people WANT????? A nurse-maid???? I'll do the trip MYSELF!! Bloody GIRLS!!!!"
Shakes head and sparks up the Be200 and heads for Kaskatrama, with ALMOST enough fuel to do the trip.
Lock the doors and throw away the key....at least till they replace THAT moron! Didn't he work for Transport? CAN he actually fly?
Shakes head and sparks up the Be200 and heads for Kaskatrama, with ALMOST enough fuel to do the trip.
Lock the doors and throw away the key....at least till they replace THAT moron! Didn't he work for Transport? CAN he actually fly?
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Check Pilot
- Rank 6
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:26 am
Cat,
You say that you have not seen too many achieve a culture change before.
That means to me that you have seen some folks actually achieve it.
I'd like to know which Ops Managers or Chief Pilots that you have seen that do get around the "old" culture and achieved a brand new way of operating and not falling back on the old ways.
There are Companies out there that probably wish a "culture" change had occurred, but only after an accident or incident.
I think we've seen it before but people only regret their actions when it comes up to bite them in the hinder AFTER something bad has gone on and the lawsuits start to flow and the insurance rates go through the roof.
Why does it always take a blast in the face like that to realize that they have been standing too close to the action to see the real world?
I am honestly interested in your satement about seeing some (even one) Company that has actually done something that got them out of the crap before something bad occurred.
PM me if you can't name names without violating the forum rules.
You say that you have not seen too many achieve a culture change before.
That means to me that you have seen some folks actually achieve it.
I'd like to know which Ops Managers or Chief Pilots that you have seen that do get around the "old" culture and achieved a brand new way of operating and not falling back on the old ways.
There are Companies out there that probably wish a "culture" change had occurred, but only after an accident or incident.
I think we've seen it before but people only regret their actions when it comes up to bite them in the hinder AFTER something bad has gone on and the lawsuits start to flow and the insurance rates go through the roof.
Why does it always take a blast in the face like that to realize that they have been standing too close to the action to see the real world?
I am honestly interested in your satement about seeing some (even one) Company that has actually done something that got them out of the crap before something bad occurred.
PM me if you can't name names without violating the forum rules.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
No problem Check Pilot, I can give you at least one example of changing the culture in a company.
The answer lies in the power that a Chief Pilot and or Operations Manager has under existing leglislation.
The problem is using that power and getting results, historically TC has been a little shy in backing up these positions.
In 1974/75 I was Chief Pilot for Airwest Airlines in Vancouver, I could not get TC to enforce the law no matter how often I proved non compliance by the company.
I finally received results by going to the RCMP and filing charges against both Air West for non compliance and Transport Canada for refusal to enforce Federal law.
I won my case, and changed the culture of not only Air West but the management of TC.
Naturally I lost my job, but got the job done before I left. Also it is noteworthy that there were job losses at TC....
...interesting that I lost my job for doing my job and a couple of TC types lost their job for not doing their job.
CAAP would be an excellent avenue whereby Chief Pilots and Ops Managers would have industry back up when exercising their duties as laid out in the regulations.
Cat
The answer lies in the power that a Chief Pilot and or Operations Manager has under existing leglislation.
The problem is using that power and getting results, historically TC has been a little shy in backing up these positions.
In 1974/75 I was Chief Pilot for Airwest Airlines in Vancouver, I could not get TC to enforce the law no matter how often I proved non compliance by the company.
I finally received results by going to the RCMP and filing charges against both Air West for non compliance and Transport Canada for refusal to enforce Federal law.
I won my case, and changed the culture of not only Air West but the management of TC.
Naturally I lost my job, but got the job done before I left. Also it is noteworthy that there were job losses at TC....
...interesting that I lost my job for doing my job and a couple of TC types lost their job for not doing their job.
CAAP would be an excellent avenue whereby Chief Pilots and Ops Managers would have industry back up when exercising their duties as laid out in the regulations.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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bluesideup
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:14 am
- Location: Winnipeg
keystone
I think people are missing the whole point behind Keystone pointing there finger at TC. In my view it is all about money. It doesn't sound to me like keystone is denying their part in the accident. However, by pointing the blame at TC (and I believe Keystone is right in saying TC should have shut them down) it will take some of the burden off them in that they will not end up haveing to pay all of the legal fees/fines etc incured through the law suits against keystone. If and when TC is found at fault TC will end up shareing the cost so to speak.
On another note, there is no doubt safety is expensive but as the saying goes, "try haveing an accident".
StallN'fall...
George wasn't flying an MU2 a few years ago (to the best of my memory)
On another note, there is no doubt safety is expensive but as the saying goes, "try haveing an accident".
StallN'fall...
George wasn't flying an MU2 a few years ago (to the best of my memory)
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Check Pilot
- Rank 6
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:26 am
Thanks Cat,
As I said before, I am really interested in SMS and it's ramifications.
Before TC really gets going on this stuff and makes it mandatory it is up to experienced folks like you to have some input to the CARAC, for example or Industry groups that have a real need to survive drastic changes in Mangement thinking in the way they operate.
Some folks are looking at a 180 degree change in style and it sure is not going to sit very well with their current thinking/modus operadi.
I'd like to see you at CARAC for some true input. When can we all expect the CARAC transcripts?
How long did Air West last after the Queens Cowboys did their thing?
Was that cultue change permanent or did they just fade off in the distance as time went by?
I don't care about the TC types of the day, since they were just there at the time and knew nothing of the way they would see it now. What really became of that Company in the end?
Do you have any more examples of true culture change that you have seen?
Check Pilot
As I said before, I am really interested in SMS and it's ramifications.
Before TC really gets going on this stuff and makes it mandatory it is up to experienced folks like you to have some input to the CARAC, for example or Industry groups that have a real need to survive drastic changes in Mangement thinking in the way they operate.
Some folks are looking at a 180 degree change in style and it sure is not going to sit very well with their current thinking/modus operadi.
I'd like to see you at CARAC for some true input. When can we all expect the CARAC transcripts?
How long did Air West last after the Queens Cowboys did their thing?
Was that cultue change permanent or did they just fade off in the distance as time went by?
I don't care about the TC types of the day, since they were just there at the time and knew nothing of the way they would see it now. What really became of that Company in the end?
Do you have any more examples of true culture change that you have seen?
Check Pilot
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Check Pilot :
It is to late tonight for me to respond to all your points, however I will in the morning.
Your comment about me having input into CARAC is interesting and I want to think more on that.
The bottom line of course is without input from the end users CARAC will definately proceed with whatever agenda they are involved in.
HHmmmm, me giving advice to CARAC interesting thought that....., actually I have nothing to lose do I as I no longer work under their jurisdiction anyhow.
Cat
It is to late tonight for me to respond to all your points, however I will in the morning.
Your comment about me having input into CARAC is interesting and I want to think more on that.
The bottom line of course is without input from the end users CARAC will definately proceed with whatever agenda they are involved in.
HHmmmm, me giving advice to CARAC interesting thought that....., actually I have nothing to lose do I as I no longer work under their jurisdiction anyhow.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Check Pilot :
First I'll answer the Air West thing.
Air West was put under new managership after TC finally enforced the law, it eventually was sold and became Air B.C. Yes it did change the culture and brought some semblance of safety to the operation. I was offered a position in Conair and ended upgoing back to work for Bob Murdock as Chief Pilot for Avalon Aviation.
One positive outcome from my taking TC to court was the fact that I proved that Federal law will over ride the power of any TC management that think they are above the law. That in itself was worth the effort that I put into it.
Now back to SMS and my thoughts on that.
Quite frankly I feel we already have to many rules, regulations and far to many new programs and requirements that force industry to waste valuable time and assets in showing compliance to these programs.
Human nature will insure that when you force someone to do something that people feel to be onerous you will get only surface compliance, in aviation surface compliance will be evident by all the paper work being produced to satisfy the regulator and behind the scenes nothing really changes operationaly.
Just look at the changes that have taken place since CAR's have come into use. As an example you used to be able to file an IFR flight plan with alternates and landing minima that were quite reasonable and understandable, now you need a doctorate in regulations just to read CAR's and try anf make sense out of what is written therein...
So maybe what we need is some common sense oversite of existing regulations and forget SMS because you can bet the farm it will evolve into another bureaucratic monster with very little impact on safety.
But then again what do I know, hell TC won't even allow me to work in this industry in Canada which does not bode well for your suggestion that I interface directly with CARAC.
What think thee?
Cat
First I'll answer the Air West thing.
Air West was put under new managership after TC finally enforced the law, it eventually was sold and became Air B.C. Yes it did change the culture and brought some semblance of safety to the operation. I was offered a position in Conair and ended upgoing back to work for Bob Murdock as Chief Pilot for Avalon Aviation.
One positive outcome from my taking TC to court was the fact that I proved that Federal law will over ride the power of any TC management that think they are above the law. That in itself was worth the effort that I put into it.
Now back to SMS and my thoughts on that.
Quite frankly I feel we already have to many rules, regulations and far to many new programs and requirements that force industry to waste valuable time and assets in showing compliance to these programs.
Human nature will insure that when you force someone to do something that people feel to be onerous you will get only surface compliance, in aviation surface compliance will be evident by all the paper work being produced to satisfy the regulator and behind the scenes nothing really changes operationaly.
Just look at the changes that have taken place since CAR's have come into use. As an example you used to be able to file an IFR flight plan with alternates and landing minima that were quite reasonable and understandable, now you need a doctorate in regulations just to read CAR's and try anf make sense out of what is written therein...
So maybe what we need is some common sense oversite of existing regulations and forget SMS because you can bet the farm it will evolve into another bureaucratic monster with very little impact on safety.
But then again what do I know, hell TC won't even allow me to work in this industry in Canada which does not bode well for your suggestion that I interface directly with CARAC.
What think thee?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Check Pilot
- Rank 6
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:26 am
Cat,
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner--
Your quote:
But then again what do I know, hell TC won't even allow me to work in this industry in Canada, which does not bode well for your suggestion that I interface directly with CARAC.
_________
If you have had past problems maybe you could be able to change things by getting really involved with the powers that be.
You can’t change anything without being directly involved. If you aren’t right in there with the process you have no place complaining about how bad the system has become. Your assumption that you would not be welcome in CARAC is probably not true. If you get involved with the system the system will have to publish your input in a public forum for everyone to see and either agree or disagree with you.
Which way do you want it to happen?
You also state:
Human nature will insure (“ensure” maybe) that when you force someone to do something that people feel to be onerous you will get only surface compliance, in aviation surface compliance will be evident by all the paper work being produced to satisfy the regulator and behind the scenes nothing really changes operationally.
___________
The way the SMS will set up seems to be that if there is only the “surface” compliance by Operators to show TC the “paper” will be weeded out fairly quickly. The Operators that will only comply on the surface likely will end up in the dumpster – if not right away then shortly after the real picture shows up from complaints from former or current staff or complaints from the general public. The way SMS is envisioned, it likely won’t take very long before the Operating Certificate gets in serious jeopardy for “surface” compliance. If there is not a real and true commitment to SMS it will likely show up and TC will have really tough questions about non-commitment to the whole idea. Again leading to an OC suspension.
The number one purpose of SMS is to get the accident rate to zero. That’s a pretty lofty goal, likely unachievable, a goal none the less.
Another purpose of SMS is to get TC out of the direct regulatory loop and throw the whole responsibility of regulating operations directly on to the Operator – don’t you want that? It would be the most effective method of getting them out of YOUR hair, would it not?
It’s kind of like self-regulation. The only caveat being that you better not generate a lot of CADORS or reports to the head bashing enforcement types. I think a person of your character would welcome less TC involvement in the world. Am I wrong?
Another quote from you:
Just look at the changes that have taken place since CAR's have come into use. As an example you used to be able to file an IFR flight plan with alternates and landing minima that were quite reasonable and understandable, now you need a doctorate in regulations just to read CAR's and try and make sense out of what is written therein...
____________
So why are you sitting on you’re a@@ and not in the CARAC process if you want to make this stuff make sense to Joe Average six-pack pilot? People can actually get things changed if it gets done in the right forum – obviously not here on avcanada but why not get in there with the rest of the CARAC common folks that have already made significant changes to our ponderous regulations.
So get in there .. Either do it or stop all the bitching.
If you don’t it’s kind of like complaining about your local MP when you didn’t bother voting.
Over to you.
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner--
Your quote:
But then again what do I know, hell TC won't even allow me to work in this industry in Canada, which does not bode well for your suggestion that I interface directly with CARAC.
_________
If you have had past problems maybe you could be able to change things by getting really involved with the powers that be.
You can’t change anything without being directly involved. If you aren’t right in there with the process you have no place complaining about how bad the system has become. Your assumption that you would not be welcome in CARAC is probably not true. If you get involved with the system the system will have to publish your input in a public forum for everyone to see and either agree or disagree with you.
Which way do you want it to happen?
You also state:
Human nature will insure (“ensure” maybe) that when you force someone to do something that people feel to be onerous you will get only surface compliance, in aviation surface compliance will be evident by all the paper work being produced to satisfy the regulator and behind the scenes nothing really changes operationally.
___________
The way the SMS will set up seems to be that if there is only the “surface” compliance by Operators to show TC the “paper” will be weeded out fairly quickly. The Operators that will only comply on the surface likely will end up in the dumpster – if not right away then shortly after the real picture shows up from complaints from former or current staff or complaints from the general public. The way SMS is envisioned, it likely won’t take very long before the Operating Certificate gets in serious jeopardy for “surface” compliance. If there is not a real and true commitment to SMS it will likely show up and TC will have really tough questions about non-commitment to the whole idea. Again leading to an OC suspension.
The number one purpose of SMS is to get the accident rate to zero. That’s a pretty lofty goal, likely unachievable, a goal none the less.
Another purpose of SMS is to get TC out of the direct regulatory loop and throw the whole responsibility of regulating operations directly on to the Operator – don’t you want that? It would be the most effective method of getting them out of YOUR hair, would it not?
It’s kind of like self-regulation. The only caveat being that you better not generate a lot of CADORS or reports to the head bashing enforcement types. I think a person of your character would welcome less TC involvement in the world. Am I wrong?
Another quote from you:
Just look at the changes that have taken place since CAR's have come into use. As an example you used to be able to file an IFR flight plan with alternates and landing minima that were quite reasonable and understandable, now you need a doctorate in regulations just to read CAR's and try and make sense out of what is written therein...
____________
So why are you sitting on you’re a@@ and not in the CARAC process if you want to make this stuff make sense to Joe Average six-pack pilot? People can actually get things changed if it gets done in the right forum – obviously not here on avcanada but why not get in there with the rest of the CARAC common folks that have already made significant changes to our ponderous regulations.
So get in there .. Either do it or stop all the bitching.
If you don’t it’s kind of like complaining about your local MP when you didn’t bother voting.
Over to you.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Check Pilot :
It is not possible for me to argue your points, for the simple reason that your are correct.
PM, me with more info on how I get involved and I will try and help the industry out one last time.
I leave for Europe on Mar 18 and have no idea of when I will return to Canada this year because at present they can't get insurance to fly without more time on the airplane, hopefully I will get at least two of them approved soon.
However with computers it really does not matter where you are anymore.
You said...
Another purpose of SMS is to get TC out of the direct regulatory loop and throw the whole responsibility of regulating operations directly on to the Operator – don’t you want that?
This in my opinion is the way to go as long as the grunts who work the flight decks and the hangar floor have their voices heard on safety matters.
..
It is not possible for me to argue your points, for the simple reason that your are correct.
PM, me with more info on how I get involved and I will try and help the industry out one last time.
I leave for Europe on Mar 18 and have no idea of when I will return to Canada this year because at present they can't get insurance to fly without more time on the airplane, hopefully I will get at least two of them approved soon.
However with computers it really does not matter where you are anymore.
You said...
Another purpose of SMS is to get TC out of the direct regulatory loop and throw the whole responsibility of regulating operations directly on to the Operator – don’t you want that?
This in my opinion is the way to go as long as the grunts who work the flight decks and the hangar floor have their voices heard on safety matters.
..
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Check Pilot :
We should not just let this die, I will be leaving for Europe in less than three weeks.
However I have been asking questions about SMS with several local operators.
Not getting much in the way of information except that there seems to be a CD available from TC outlining what it is all about, that and they seem to think it is just more money and time wasted paying for or trying to make up a manual that they do not see any real need for.
So now that I have tried to find out what this is supposed to be can you tell me more about this latest idea from the regulator?
Cat
We should not just let this die, I will be leaving for Europe in less than three weeks.
However I have been asking questions about SMS with several local operators.
Not getting much in the way of information except that there seems to be a CD available from TC outlining what it is all about, that and they seem to think it is just more money and time wasted paying for or trying to make up a manual that they do not see any real need for.
So now that I have tried to find out what this is supposed to be can you tell me more about this latest idea from the regulator?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
SMS ;english translation =wafflegab
cya gone mad,
I prefered the old safety system DFU =don't fukk up
If there is any truth to darwins theories there will be no need for any safety in the next millenium as all the idiots are supposed to have killed themselves off by then or at least made a good dent in the population doh
cya gone mad,
I prefered the old safety system DFU =don't fukk up
If there is any truth to darwins theories there will be no need for any safety in the next millenium as all the idiots are supposed to have killed themselves off by then or at least made a good dent in the population doh
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stallnfall
- Rank 1
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:24 am
- Location: The Peg
Re: keystone
StallN'fall...
George wasn't flying an MU2 a few years ago (to the best of my memory)[/quote]
I checked into it, it was more than a few years ago, but yes he did crash an MU2 in CYBV! Why is it that those with the most crashes and screw ups think they can tell the rest of the world how to do it right, and look down there noses as they do it. I wouldn’t let George Riopka be in charge of my toilet cleaning.
George wasn't flying an MU2 a few years ago (to the best of my memory)[/quote]
I checked into it, it was more than a few years ago, but yes he did crash an MU2 in CYBV! Why is it that those with the most crashes and screw ups think they can tell the rest of the world how to do it right, and look down there noses as they do it. I wouldn’t let George Riopka be in charge of my toilet cleaning.
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switchflicker
- Rank 5
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:25 am
