For all of you who do not understand......

[SkyWolfe]

crazy_aviator most companies will reward a real good employee, when I had my flying school there was one exceptionally good worker, a real self starter who always kept himself busy so much in fact he would wash airplanes and sweep the hangar floor all on his own initiative.

Harlan always does this (and so do I). None of the employers have ever even recognized his efforts. What a fucked industry...

Wolfie

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Wolfie neither you nor Harlan should ever change your working habits, sure it may seem like you do not get the rewards your efforts deserve but don't ever think that your efforts are not recognized by someone..even employers who did not seem to recognize you work hard.

Someday it will pay off in spades.

Trust me it will.

[Just another canuck]

I'll first say that paying for training/ a PPC is not something I like. I do not plan on ever paying for a job in such a manner.

But I can only PLAN on it. It is widely accepted on every other continent to pay for training and more and more operators are doing it here.

I also don't believe someone should be condemned as a whore for paying... maybe that was there only option.

[jetflightinstructor]

......why I am so against paying for a check out in any aircraft when I am applying for a new job.

Here is why.

I have never ever paid one cent for training, I never ever had to sign a bond.

Here are the ratings my employers paid for ...

Multi Engine rating.

Multi Engine IFR.

Commercial Helicopter License.

And every check out I ever had when flying for any company.

So it is incomprehensible to me to think of pilots actually paying cash to check out in some company's airplane they are going to be flying.

Yes probabely true...
First, you didn' t start you career in 2001 right? Because some did. And beleive me the life was much easier when you started to work.
And I understand you come from the bush and float world right?

You don' t come from Cathay pacific, Emirates, or this kind of airline right?
You are not a medium or heavy jet captain right?

I don' t mean your career is inferior, not at all, but 75+ % of the young pilots who are reading you on avcanada, that is what they want to become, heavy jet captain.
And you are not one.
So your advice is true for the kind of career you had.

And sometimes, when already hired by a company, spending 15000$ for a type to be first officer, you will still earn more than sweeping the hangar for 10$ an hour.

So in this case, who is right, the one who has more money and flies a jet, or the one who makes less to clean up the ramp?
Both are right! Different path to be considered and respected.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

jetflightinstructor please allow me to correct some of your assumptions.

Yes probabely true...
First, you didn' t start you career in 2001 right? Because some did. And beleive me the life was much easier when you started to work.

No I started my career in 1953 and life was not much easier then, especially for a young pilot trying to get their first flying job because of all the pilots that were left over from WW2 who already had flying experience.

And I understand you come from the bush and float world right?

Wrong again I started my career flying crop dusters then went into corporate flying. I did fly some bush type flying for a while then went into the Arctic on the DC3 and later the DC6 and Twin Otters.

You don' t come from Cathay pacific, Emirates, or this kind of airline right?
You are not a medium or heavy jet captain right?

No I do not come from Cathay Pacific or Emirates, but I did get some exposure to flying that kind of equipment when I worked for Air France and Airbus Industries...never flew the line as such though until the very last part of my career when I had the chance to fly on the B763 and found it about as exciting as watching a hair cut.

I don' t mean your career is inferior, not at all, but 75+ % of the young pilots who are reading you on avcanada, that is what they want to become, heavy jet captain.

Maybe 75% of the young pilots here want to become a heavy jet captain but the reality is most will never get the opportunity.

And you are not one.

No I am not one by choice, but conversely I did make it far enough in my career to be accepted as a pilot to fly in the movie industry for one of the largest companies in the world, Merimax, have you got to that position in aviation yet? I can assure you that being a heavy jet captain won't cut it.

So your advice is true for the kind of career you had.

Quite true, however I hope that having flown for over fifty years for a living I can give some good advice even if I did not choose to be a heavy jet captain.

And sometimes, when already hired by a company, spending 15000$ for a type to be first officer, you will still earn more than sweeping the hangar for 10$ an hour.

That would depend on the country you live in and the company you are working for, for instance VAL is not Emirates.

So in this case, who is right, the one who has more money and flies a jet, or the one who makes less to clean up the ramp?
Both are right! Different path to be considered and respected.

I guess so.

[jetflightinstructor]

Cool answer Cat.

Your reply makes sense to me.

[Johnny#5]

Hey Quote-Master 2000...how do you do that on this forum? I tried using the 'quote' button but it doesnt work properly.

[Batman]

.. That guy who used to work for you sounds familiar, could yours have been a flt school operating on the island in the late 80's

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Yes.

[ragbagflyer]

Watching the way things are going lately got me thinking; a lot of employers are going with the trend of a bond/prorated agreement. Some of these same employers are making layoffs as business drops, fair enough but if you can't guarantee the employees work how do you expect them to guarantee service. Of course there is an investment in training, but new employees often make an investment of their own when they pick up and move to that new job. Everybody looks out for number one including a lot of companies. Sad yes, but it's a tough cycle to break.