Newhires FYI

[Canoehead]

I'll check that out, but now I've raised my own question I guess...
I thought out GWL premiums were under 'DENTAL' and 'EHC'.

they are now. it used to be listed under one code up until 2006 i.e. ALPA BEN PREM. it has been coded separately since then. click on the links menu of jazzops and choose the ops info menu. you'll find the pay codes for pilots document listed at the bottom.

Thanks mattedfred.

[Bede]

Keep in mind, reserve can suck, but it is still better than any 703 on call.

[Hyster]

I like how WJ pilots always mention their salary and include the company shares (ESP) they buy(deduction from pay) and recieve. They also always include their profit share which is never a certainty. Not to mention I dont know a single pilot at WJ who doesn't do overtime, who does overtime unless they have to. You never hear them say what they put in their bank every month. Face it your salary stinks for the first two years, and is only slightly better than Jazz or AC. Your also going to be an FO for a very long time now on a 737.

Aviation in Canada is not what it should be, and it will get worse. Good luck to Jazz and AC guys who negotiate the contracts this summer. Westjet guys, Alberta will be affected most by this downturn until the price of oil goes up, so much for your beloved profit shares.

[skyhigh]

I don't do a single day of OT at WJ. I hate OT and believe that my time off is best spent with family....All the extra flying I do I accumulate in a time bank and take MORE time off instead. There are a lot of guys that do NOT fly OT....and no one forces them.

As for the pay, the straight goods is this....first year $41.67/hr, second year $52.08/hr, third year $82.11/hr, fourth year $86.00/hr. All these rates will be going up quite a bit in about 2 months when the new contract is in effect. We fly around 960 hrs per year. So you can do the math there.

As for the ESP program, just about everyone participates because the company will give you an extra 20% on top of those hourly rates mentioned above in stock which you can sell for CASH which in turn buys you goods and services. I do not even think about stock options or profit sharing because those are not guaranteed unlike the cash and ESP mentioned above. Unlike Jazz, the financial pain is OVER as you enter in year 3.

[mighty mouse]

The one thing I am disappointed with Jazz is the amount of deductions that come off the paycheque. Aside from the usual federal tax, CPP, EI etc, the deductions for short term disability, dental, medical are HUGE. We have to pay 50% of our dental/medical which I was surprised. Also, no offence to ALPA, but I paid $960 in union dues last year (3rd year FO). New hires pay 50% of their uniforms, so you will be paying that back for the first 18 months or so. When its all said and done, I take home roughly 2600 dollars a month, after 3+ years with the company.

yeah, that what the main line guys get too.

[Al707]

"True, but your pay goes way up at AC after 2 years"

Are you sure inverted?

Only if you can hold 320 or better! Which is unlikely in this environment.

PG rates/ B-scales are well off the olden days formula pay at year 3 f/o or RP formula at year 4.

[swervin]

I can tell you for a fact, year 7 take home pay for an EMJ F/O is more than a 16th year Captain pay at Jazz.

[rudder]

I can tell you for a fact, year 7 take home pay for an EMJ F/O is more than a 16th year Captain pay at Jazz.

Are you sure?

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... anada.html

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... _jazz.html

[Al707]

Just correcting his 2 year comment Swervin! I'm quite aware of our pay grades... thanks.

Way up after 2 is no longer accurate!

Yes it improves but slowly (unless out of the group), but many still believe it's after flat pay..... incorrect it's a few more years beyond that.

Many here at AC, like yourself perhaps, aren't even aware.

[mbav8r]

Quick comparison, 12 yr EMJ F/O min reserve guarantee 68880.00
12 yr Jazz F/O min reserve guarantee 60450.00

[KAG]

The fact it takes 12 years to reach that pay scale for either airline is shameful. Light turbine pilots are making more then that.

[TAWS]

The fact it takes 12 years to reach that pay scale for either airline is shameful. Light turbine pilots are making more then that.

It was good enough for you when you were there.....

[Dark Helmet]

I have to agree, to have that type of payscale is terrible. Having said that, I don't think you will ever see an 12 yr EMJ FO at mainline. You should be a CAPT on the EMJ, 320, or senior FO on the 320, or FO on the 767 by then making much more.

As for Jazz, with 12 years you can hold a left seat with a block confortably out East. Junior CAPT spot out west (YYC). My guess is those who are still sitting right seat at Jazz after 12 years are simply doing it by choice. Money may not be an issue and lifestyle may be more important.

IMHO only. I can't speak for anyone in that situatuon...

Between sitting right seat at Jazz and flying a light turbine up North. I would take the seat at Jazz even if it pays slightly less. Don't get me wrong, flying up North was a lot of fun, and I spent a lot of time up there. Not something I would want to do fo the long haul, I was ready to get out by the end of it. That is just me.

Jazz is what it is. It is not the best job, nor it is the worse. If is that dreadfull, one can always quit and go back to flying a light turbine or find something better. Or better yet, get involved with ALPA, get behid the negots committee when they go in bargaining this summer. Bitching, Bashing and poking at Jazz on a public forum will NOT accomplish anything constructive.

More money would be nice, who knows maybe one day when the economy improves we may see more.

[tonysoprano]

The fact it takes 12 years to reach that pay scale for either airline is shameful. Light turbine pilots are making more then that.

It was good enough for you when you were there.....

[swervin]

"As for Jazz, with 12 years you can hold a left seat with a block confortably out East. Junior CAPT spot out west (YYC). My guess is those who are still sitting right seat at Jazz after 12 years are simply doing it by choice. Money may not be an issue and lifestyle may be more important."

Your numbers are off slightly. The most Junior Captain in Vancouver has a start date of 1990. Most Junior Captain for YYC is 1992 start date. Far off from the 12 years you are quoting. Out east most Junior Captain has 9 years in.

Just to reiterate what I have stated in the past, it's certainly not a bad job, just no where near what it was before 9/11. Remember back then for AO max years of service was 8 years and you were making a $100k a year flying a Dash 300. Now with 8 years of service you are making around $85k and your take home is about 15 - 20% less then what it was then just due to Benefits costs... Pay has gone dowhill tremendously in the last 20 years.... Hopefully 2009 brings good things for the pilot group.

[Dark Helmet]

Swervin,

Have a look at bid 09-01 award, Most jr YYC DH8 Captain position was awarded to someone with 12 years. YYC CRJ 14 years. Not something to rave about but a step in the right direction.

I agree with the rest of your post.

[mattedfred]

why is it that some at the teal team still don't understand how connected each of our WAWCON really are? we have all benefited from the gains at each respective airline that were negotiated by those that came before us.

[Minimums]

Everyone mentions a good commuting schedule to go along with the poor paycheck, yet no one really wants to touch on that subject. If someone were to apply and be awarded a base other than where they want to live by default, lack of options, or whatever, what are the guidelines for commuting? Can you live whereever you choose (IE smaller cities, YTS, YXE, etc), and travel from there on a daily basis to thier designated base? Realizing there is a non-punative process if your flight is booked solid, how many attempts must you make, or how early before hand are you expected to be there (IE 2 flights prior to your depature schedule, or just make you 1 hour prior to Departure). Fee's, if any for traveling on your own airline (airport taxes, etc). Any information appreciated.




Don't break the minimums.

[Jet Driver]

The commuting policy requires you to have one back-up flight that gets you to your reporting base 1 hour prior to check in. That being said if your two flights are over sold in advance or there is a storm forcasted that you know will cause flight cancellations, you will have to answer why you didn't try gettting to work the day before. You can commute from pretty much anywhere in the world. We have guys and gals that commute from south of the border and farther. You would be paying fees and taxes yes. Commuting isn't ideal, but I don't find it that bad.

[petey]

This forum is nearly a year old, and there was a lot of talk about the negotiations, and hope for a pay increase. What's the news on that if any? Or do Jazz f/o's still have to live with their parents?

Thanks.

[mattedfred]

now how could JAZ afford to pay any pilot more money with these sad results?

Q4 2009 HIGHLIGHTS
------------------

- Operating revenue of $351.2 million.
- Operating income of $17.3 million.
- Performance incentive of $4.6 million.
- Net income of $20.8 million.
- Distributable cash(1) of $26.7 million.

YEAR END 2009 HIGHLIGHTS
------------------------

- Operating revenue of $1,473.9 million.
- Operating income of $88.8 million.
- Performance incentive of $19.0 million.
- Net income of $92.6 million.
- Distributable cash(1) of $139.3 million.

[jjj]

Hyster,

What's your problem brother?

I find that most of my peers have been very forth coming about their compensation. Although it is unconventional, things such as ESP and profit share are quite tangible and lucrative.

As far as why there are always comments about us doing ot the answer is two-fold, we don't have reserve and overtime is quite lucrative.

If a second year Captain was to pick up a last minute OT shift which went YYC to YXE, min rest and home early the next day he would get 2 days OT with a minimum gurantee of 4.5 a day. Hourly rate of 129.16 x 9 hours credit for less than 2.2 ass in chair x 1.5 = 1,743.66.

(Insert smiley thingy here)

Feel free to scoff a little more Hyster.

JJJ

[Mig29]

Not to take away from this thread, but can anyone tell me did Jazz finally negotiate their contract that was due last year (I think)?

I know AC rolledover for 21 months with no increase, but I thought JAzz was still in the process of finalizing their 'deal'?

thanks!

[Bajan Pilot]

We just applied for concilliation, so to answer your question, "No, we have not negotiated a new contract."

[Mig29]

I see....well, keep us posted please Good luck with the negotiations!

cheers