Jazz or Porter?

[fruz]

Just throwing this out there.

If you had the option of going to either one of these companies which one would you choose? Lets assume your ambition is to eventually move to a bigger company like AC or Westjet down the road. What aircraft would you prefer to be on Q400 or RJ?

fruz

[Doc]

PORTER.......not even a close call!

[fruz]

even if were a stepping stone.

[Mclovin]

PORTER.......not even a close call!

Just wondering why is that doc

[My Name is Earl]

But Doc there is a training Bond. Shame on you for even suggesting. How could you lead a youngster down the garden path like that...... Tisk Tisk

He He

[LegoMan]

Porter hands down. Better working environment, better pay, most stable. Plus Jizz has shitty equipment

[Mclovin]

Porter hands down. Better working environment, better pay, most stable. Plus Jizz has shitty equipment

Wow pretty bold statement Legoman. Care to elaborate at all. Have you worked at either company? Whats the top end Captain pay at Porter? How is Porter anymore stable then jazz? I'd hardly call a CRJ705 shitty equipment. I'm sure Porter is a great place to work, I know guys there that enjoy quite a bit and the Q400 is a nice machine, but come on man thats a pretty ignorant statement. Just wondering do you or have you worked at either company?

[Doc]

I wasn't looking at it as a stepping stone. More, and end game. The mistake a lot of folks in business make, is not knowing when things are going well. The commute difference alone would make me pick Porter

[LegoMan]

How hold are the planes at Jazz whats the average age. Whats the average age at Porter. Yes Jazz has a high salary cap, but how many years do you have to stay to get there. How many times in the last few years has Porter laid off, now compare to Jazz.....ya, I wouldnt say thats an ignorant statement to make.

[Mclovin]

How hold are the planes at Jazz whats the average age. Whats the average age at Porter. Yes Jazz has a high salary cap, but how many years do you have to stay to get there. How many times in the last few years has Porter laid off, now compare to Jazz.....ya, I wouldnt say thats an ignorant statement to make.

Well Porter has only been around for 2 years and not even close to the size of Jazz. Just because they haven't laid off in there 2 years of existance doesn't make them any less vulnerable. Yes there are some older birds at Jazz, so what? There are also some fairly new CRJs in the fleet as well. I don't see what that has to do with the quality of a company. Anyway I can see from your post here that you don't really know what your talking about, just another misinformed person jumping on the jazz bashing bandwagon.

[countryhick]

I've been at Jazz for 9 years. One incidence of layoffs in that time. How long has Porter been in business? Jazz and its predecessor airlines have been around for a touch longer then that. With slightly more than 130 aircraft in the fleet, yes the average age is up there, but I have flown older, and really, what does it matter. Refresh my memory, how many a/c in Porters fleet now? How many flights per day does Porter operate? How many destinations? How many employees? You are going to have to come up with something better then salary and aircraft age if we are going to start comparing companies.

I'm glad to see that Porter is doing well, and I hope they continue to grow. But keep in mind they are not the only game in town, and either is Jazz. And you still have not said if you have worked at either airline LegoMan

[LegoMan]

I flew with a chick who used to work maintenance for Jazz in YXU. She told me all the short cuts and crappy parts they were putting in on those Dash 8s. The name alone leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many pilots and passengers. Crap service, crap pay, crap planes. The question was which would one prefer Jazz or Porter, I pick Porter.

BTW size of fleet and number of employees doesnt mean anything. The largest airlines in the world are the ones with the lowest employee morale, lowest customer satisfaction.

[mattedfred]

Just throwing this out there.

If you had the option of going to either one of these companies which one would you choose? Lets assume your ambition is to eventually move to a bigger company like AC or Westjet down the road. What aircraft would you prefer to be on Q400 or RJ?

fruz

what experience do you have?

would you commute to YYZ or live there?

are you aware that porter has a training bond while jazz does not?

why do you think you have to leave the company you are currently at and go to either porter or jazz in order to get hired at AC or WJ?

[LegoMan]

Jazz has a bond on their uniforms

[mattedfred]

it is true that new hires at jazz pay 50% of the cost of their first uniform

it is also true that if you resign before a certain time period that you are required to pay off the balance of your first uniform as it is payroll deducted

i've heard that porter has a $3000 uniform bond but that is heresay

[fruz]

mattedfred check your pm's.

[fortis risk]

For me It's quality of life. Jazz offers very little in that area. Crazy commutes, bitter and nasty co-workers, customers who are miserable as a result of said bitter co-workers. Porter simply offers a better culture, not only will you be happier at work but you'll be spending more time at home.

[Stinky]

Crazy commutes

It kind of depends on where you live, it takes me 20mins to get to my job at Jazz and would take me 6 hours to get to a job with porter.

[genetic jack hammer]

For me It's quality of life. Jazz offers very little in that area. Crazy commutes, bitter and nasty co-workers, customers who are miserable as a result of said bitter co-workers. Porter simply offers a better culture, not only will you be happier at work but you'll be spending more time at home.

Crazy commutes? It takes me 15-20 minutes to get to Pearson, in rush hour. Like many others. Do all Porter employees live close to the island? I know of many who went to Porter, some drving in from Barrie, Milton, etc...Bitter and nasty co-workers? How long has Porter been around? A little over two years. How many employees does Porter have? Other than the island, what are Porter's other bases? The most senior Pilot here at Jazz was hired in 1968, probably around the time of Austin Airways, then Air Ontario and then eventually Jazz. You're telling me that with a Pilot group that numbers over 1500, all across Canada, with varying backgrounds, that you're not going to have some nasty co-workers? I've been at Jazz just over a year now and love every minute of it. In fact, my primary reason for making the move to Jazz was for the lifestyle...so I don't have to drive too far to get to work, get lots of time off...and hey, no bond.

You mentioned the quality of lifestyle aspect, and that Jazz "offers very little in that area". When were you at Jazz. What base? It wouldn't be fair of me to make assumptions about lifestyles at Porter. My buddies who have gone there love it, although the one thing they complain about is the drive to the airport (T.O traffic can be terrib;e on a good day). I can make it to the island in about 30 minutes during rush hour

I'm sure that Porter treats their employees really well. I really hope that they do stay successful and grow. It's good for all of us, as a whole.

If anyone wants to complain about lifestyles, nasty co-workers, etc...please back it up with ACTUAL experiences, not what your "friend who works there says".

[wordstwice]

!

[Stinky]

The pay is pretty close to Jazz but you will take home alot more from your basic pay (due to no Pension, Union dues, etc)

The take home might end up as more but I think there's a lot of value in what we have deducted from our pay. Having a pension is nice, health benefits are good if you have a family, union dues I don't mind paying.

I think either company is good and about equal when it comes to pros and cons, it really just comes down to a personal choice.
One thing I like at Jazz is the opportunity to fly different aircraft types and transfer to different bases if I choose. Career progression might not be as fast but there can be a lot of variety if you opt for it.

[. .]

The pay is pretty close to Jazz but you will take home alot more from your basic pay (due to no Pension, Union dues, etc)

The take home might end up as more but I think there's a lot of value in what we have deducted from our pay. Having a pension is nice, health benefits are good if you have a family, union dues I don't mind paying.

I think either company is good and about equal when it comes to pros and cons, it really just comes down to a personal choice.
One thing I like at Jazz is the opportunity to fly different aircraft types and transfer to different bases if I choose. Career progression might not be as fast but there can be a lot of variety if you opt for it.

Pension, union dues, etc are tax deductible. While your monthly pay check may be smaller, your tax return should be larger.

Looking at a lifetime career job, Porter would need a few things for it to qualify with me. Jazz has a pension, pay progression, different fleet options etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Porter just have one Captain's pay level? I couldn't imagine a 20-30 year career there with a lifetime of no raises. Yes on the good years you'd get a profit share, but in the bad ones you would get nothing.

Pension is a HUGE issue. I'm not sure what the contributions that Jazz puts into the DC plan they have. That HAS to be taken into account. Quite simply, that's money that you're not having to invest in your future. If you were at porter you'd have to invest twice as much, from a smaller captains wage to have the same savings.

Porter may of had 1 year upgrades in the past. The current round of hires may also upgrade in a year. At some point, they've gotten all their planes, and you're the last FO they hire. I wouldn't want to be that guy, looking over at the meteoric rise to the left seat at Jazz, while you're left rotting in the right seat. A mixed fleet can make for some excitement in your career too. The longest I've flown one type for was just under 3 years. By the end of the three years, I was teaching in the sim, checking, line indocing and I was starting to feel like I wanted more. Certainly I could have done the ACP course, but that's all that would have remained. Perhaps others have a longer attention span than I do, but 20-30 years on a single type could prove monotonous.

Jazz also has some of the best benefits in the business. I realize that many on this forum won't understand the true value of something like this yet. Braces for 3 kids are expensive, god forbid your child is truly sick and needs a lifetime of medicine. If that happens you'll appreciate top end benefits. Maybe you'll be a single, healthy guy up until the day you die in your sleep at 98, but most at some point are very glad they have them. The flight benefits can't be compared either. I do realize that porter has some, but they can't be compared with what Jazz has. You can get anywhere in the world, about 6 different ways with Jazz. There are some benefits to being attached to a 75yr old legacy carrier.

Lastly, for those that question the stability of a career at Jazz. Give your heads a shake. Jazz is one of the very few solid gigs in Canada. Have they laid off in the past? Yep. Will they lay off again, that's possible. I'd certainly rather be laid off and hold my seniority number, and my seat, than have my company fold. When your company folds you're starting from scratch again. I'm not saying Porter is going to fold, but there's certainly a much higher risk of them folding than Jazz shutting their doors. Jazz has no equals in Canada, they'd never be allowed to fold. There's so many tier 2 cities that would become totally isolated if that were to happen. It would be political suicide to let that happen.

Anyway, I realize this has been more than a bit long winded. There's so many people that love to bash Jazz on absolutely no solid grounds at all. I have dozens of friends who work there, and each and every one of them love it. I'm not saying porter sucks, but don't take some of the posters here to paint the picture of Jazz for you.

[Flightlevels]

I think porter would get you to AC or WJ faster. Wj loves that experience and Jazz is on equal footing there. When AC begins hiring you don't have to worry about a flow through etc. and they like that experience too, when and if the hiring ever reaches you (there will be many ahead of you at jazz). From what I see, porter has better culture and significant growth. Nice a/c etc. If I were looking long term then I would go Jazz for benefits and passes only. This isn't the case. Bonds are a small price to pay for 2 years if it gets you into the job you really want faster leaving all the guys that want to progress faster at Jazz in the dust.. Porter will do this.

[C-GGGQ]

Now I know that the $3000 uniform bond is real at porter (for the FA's at least) However i was under the impression that the "bond" you guys refer to is a no money up front promisary. At this point in my life (single already in Toronto etc.) and seeing how the original poster said that this was not the end game and that you would move on to WJ or AC. I would choose porter over jazz. I know plenty of people at porter, and have also worked for jazz. Never heard a complaint about porter. That said neither one will even glance at my resume at this point so whoever would give me a job is who i choose

[Stinky]

Bonds are a small price to pay for 2 years if it gets you into the job you really want faster leaving all the guys that want to progress faster at Jazz in the dust.. Porter will do this.

You only need about 3 days on average to progress from Jazz to Westjet.