Pilot Decision Making Simulator

[jeta1]

see http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... n/menu.htm


interesting scenarios, well done, refill coffee - you'll be there a while

[Donald]

Scenario #3 seems to be this crash from 2001.

[jacek_flying]

hey all just wondering if anyone had any comments on the situations in the Pilot Decision Making Sim I found some of the options somewhat odd and am wondering if anyone has any similar real life experiences that go along those lines.

[x-wind]

Great link, perhaps even sticky material!

I've had many similar decisions to make in my career thus far.

Oh, and to the above- I've had 4 oil temp/pressure issues, one of them was abnormally low oil pressure reading. The cause was a partially stuck pressure relief valve, the engine would have seized as the top end had to be rebuilt.

[officejet]

Perhaps you have heard the saying that a pilot licence is really just a licence to learn. This wisdom sums up the fact that there is much more to being a professional pilot than knowing how to handle an airplane. The really challenging aspect of flying professionally is the decision making required, which has very little to do with the actual manipulation of the controls.

I found that on that link above...haven't had time to go further than that....

That brings up an interesting point, I think...regarding Jazz filling seats with 200hr whizkids and lecturing the rest of the pilot group that because they could perform excellently in the sim..they were qualified to sit right seat in an RJ.



I know it's been done overseas and this trend sure looks like it might continue...

But I wonder if any of the "decision makers" at the levels that are introducing these programs have considered that the reason Canada has had such an excellent safety record is due to the high levels of experience that came from years in the bush during the 90's etc when it took 10 years to see the left seat of a navajo.

maybe a bit of a side rant and thread hijack...

looks like a great project....

[trey kule]

I did not get a chance to go through all of them, but those I did were very well done.

Kudos to the folks at TC responsible for this. A very nice change from what we have seen in the past.

[jeta1]

I did not get a chance to go through all of them, but those I did were very well done.

Kudos to the folks at TC responsible for this. A very nice change from what we have seen in the past.

The author of the entire PDM sim is Gerry Binnema, who was at the employ of TC when he created them, but has left TC and now works for Waldron & associates, the outfit that was helping Widow with the engine recovery thing. Gerry was one of the best TC RASOs in Pacific Region before he left.

[scopiton]

great link, and you want to know more about SMS

[disengage]

I agree I went through all the scenerios and chose the ones i would do and later went back to the other options. Lots of information in there i enjoyed this.

[Donald]

So is every scenario modelled after an actual event?

[Vortex_driver]

Good stuff from TC for once! I like the fact that they give you many details so you can have a good picture of the situation... Most of all situations happened to me before, and so far I'm still here to talk about it! I was really associating real situations of my carreer to it, and it's nice to go back after, take other steps, and see how close you came to a catastrophy that day!

[Widow]

The author of the entire PDM sim is Gerry Binnema, who was at the employ of TC when he created them, but has left TC and now works for Waldron & associates, the outfit that was helping Widow with the engine recovery thing. Gerry was one of the best TC RASOs in Pacific Region before he left.

I believe he only works for Waldron's as a consultant. He has started his own company, GJB Training and Consulting, which provides training and advice in the areas of human factors and SMS. No website yet. He worked for the TSB before for a few years before going to TCCA in '97. Here's his resume: http://www.rjwaldronco.com/assets/files ... innema.pdf

[Skyhunter]

Perhaps you have heard the saying that a pilot licence is really just a licence to learn. This wisdom sums up the fact that there is much more to being a professional pilot than knowing how to handle an airplane. The really challenging aspect of flying professionally is the decision making required, which has very little to do with the actual manipulation of the controls.

I found that on that link above...haven't had time to go further than that....

That brings up an interesting point, I think...regarding Jazz filling seats with 200hr whizkids and lecturing the rest of the pilot group that because they could perform excellently in the sim..they were qualified to sit right seat in an RJ.



I know it's been done overseas and this trend sure looks like it might continue...

But I wonder if any of the "decision makers" at the levels that are introducing these programs have considered that the reason Canada has had such an excellent safety record is due to the high levels of experience that came from years in the bush during the 90's etc when it took 10 years to see the left seat of a navajo.

maybe a bit of a side rant and thread hijack...

looks like a great project....

Not saying you are wrong or right here, but going to play devils advocate for a minute, take with grain of salt!...

Military had been taking 200 "whiz kids" for years and putting them in the right seat, center seat, and left seat, in some pretty demanding roles. If done carefully, why couldn't civilians do the same.

[officejet]

Not saying you are wrong or right here, but going to play devils advocate for a minute, take with grain of salt!...

Military had been taking 200 "whiz kids" for years and putting them in the right seat, center seat, and left seat, in some pretty demanding roles. If done carefully, why couldn't civilians do the same.

That's a valid point...

But the military has VERY high prescreening processes by which only a select few make it through.

The same argument could be made for Jazz....I suppose in the sense that they took the top from each graduating college class...however being that i did come from a college as well and saw the level of "expertise" that we "exemplified".....I really don't think there is a comparison...

In all seriousness though...I agree that training can produce a good product. If you look up at the quote that I used though....there is no substitute for experience.

And mistakes made civilian/military are far and few between...

but consider this.

the fact is...the military is training to fly themselves...they accept the inherent risks involved, be they crew, etc...

If you're flying the F-18...you have an ejection seat to cover your ass....

Joe Blow that put his family on board that RJ to start their annual vacation is not banking on inherent risks. They are paying for a guaranteed safe flight.

I can teach an eight year old kid to fly the simulator. In fact most would probably do it better than me given that they have grown up in a video game world and multitasking is something they learn without thinking about it..

I didn't write that quote above...Transport Canada...for all their faults...has stumbled upon the realization that experience matters...we can argue this point all night long...but why the need for more hours for the left seat? why not start on the beaver? why do you have to get some experience with a couple seasons on the 185? pay aside...well no...pay is the point as well..why is there a pay scale to reflect the size/complexity of the equipment?

There is limitless arguments and statistics for putting 200hr newbies into the RJ...in my opinion...they are all skewed. Skewed by the fact that solid pilots for the last 15 years have created a safe environment due to their experience that the managers are able to say...look our training program is infalliable and creates good pilots...yes it helps...but experience is the crux....everyone knows that 90% of the flights are a walk in the park and are done with today's globe/national post as the reference instead of a map..but experience will get the crew through the 9.5% of dicey situations and might actually save the plane the other 0.5% where shit is really hitting the fan(i made up those numbers...)

I think it is also interesting that the project was implemented at a time when Jazz was losing more pilots than they could hire due to the booming industry and the fact that their pay (short/long term) was not an inviting prospect. If they really believed that 200hr college kids are as skilled as those that have earned their time (yes there is deliberate use of earned...) why wasn't this project implemented when times were slow? when they would have the time to properly integrate them into the real world?

why?

i dunno...i'm just a dumb pilot. much smarter people than me with a broader view on aviation that have considered all the factors (including that you can pay them minimum wage, that they won't be able to upgrade because they don't have PIC for ATPL, including that they are more likely to stay around for longer reducing training costs....therefore keeping salary's/working conditions as they are) and balancing that out against the risk of an accident (which won't happen because you have senior and experienced captains) it makes perfect sense to implement it.

**edited because it was a stupid comment**

[AuxBatOn]

the fact is...the military is training to fly themselves...they accept the inherent risks involved, be they crew, etc...

If you're flying the F-18...you have an ejection seat to cover your ass....

The ejection seat is not in the plane because you may f-up. There are inherent risks when you fly these planes (both in training and operational missions), and if you use them in combat, you will get shot at. I think that it is a more likely reason as to why they have been fitted with ejection seats.

[officejet]

the fact is...the military is training to fly themselves...they accept the inherent risks involved, be they crew, etc...

If you're flying the F-18...you have an ejection seat to cover your ass....

The ejection seat is not in the plane because you may f-up. There are inherent risks when you fly these planes (both in training and operational missions), and if you use them in combat, you will get shot at. I think that it is a more likely reason as to why they have been fitted with ejection seats.

I meant the ejection seat bit to be a bit sarcastic just to make a point.......

[tdawe]

"So you call System Safety at Transport Canada, and the very professional civil aviation safety inspector listens to you... "

Choose your own adventure, aviation style. A good idea though, especially if cases are based on actual incidents. Often its easy to read an accident report and think "how could they have gotten themselves in this situation, didn't they see XXX or YYY as a warning sign? " but if you couldn't look back in hindsight and only had the information that the crew had at hand, would you have seen the bigger picture?

[YoungPunk]

You feel very frustrated, so when you go home you want to call Transport Canada, but you don't want to get labelled as a troublemaker. So you call System Safety at Transport Canada, and the very professional civil aviation safety inspector listens to you carefully...

Very good stuff. I found this quote kinda amusing tho

[x-wind]

Glad I didn't take the flight in the 402.