Does the coolaid really taste as sweet as it sounds?

[balfour]

You guys sound like Jumpin' Jack Layton who voted NO before he even saw the budget. My lady friends say that it's under wraps until the meetings. Sometimes you guys should remember that you actually have a really good career at WJA. There are a lot of others in the industry who would swap places with you.

We sure do have it good here woman. I will toast this post with a little bottle I picked up on my NY overnight. Just a little Montrachet 1978 from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti. I shall let you in on it in the AM. Till then... Mach es dir selber

[737skipper]

The economy will be tanked for another 24 months max. How about the other 3 years left in this deal.

I'm all for helping out for the near term. But the WJPA guys involved in this have to be truly nuts to think there are enough pilots dumb enough to sign anything for five years. That's just taking advantage of the current times.

Sorry... but from what I've been told. It's not good unless you're in the top 3 pay levels.

[Donald]

Any chance you guys will start paying for hotels and per diems while newhires are on course?

Or is that too close to industry leading?

[JestWet]

Johnny D,
Things are good here. That also doesn't mean that existing terms couldn't use a little tweaking.
I'm not asking for a 20% raise in pay ... I'm just asking that we don't enter the worst period in our country's economic history by voting in favor of a long-term agreement that, in essence, keeps us locked in to Term & Conditions which are (in essence) the same or worse than what we currently have.
The reasons are so glaringly obvious as to why we should NOT vote in favor of a 5 YEAR AGREEMENT!

These are exceptional times ... I would be satisfied with status quo until we enter a more "normal" economic/working environment. That is not unreasonable. Of course our management (bless their hearts) want to keep us committed to this agreement as long as they possibly can ... it is a perfect negotiating environment for them!

[Jastapilot]

so why not either put the new agreement on hold for a year, or only sign the new agreement for a year and see how things look then?

[JestWet]

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. That will require some negotiation because, of course, the company will be asking for the longest term possible given the current environment. I just hope that at least 70% of the pilot group can see through the smoke & mirrors and vote for what's in our best interest.

[Rotten Apple #1]

JestWet, your math might be off, unless I misunderstood the communication from Dave of the WJPA. If I understand correctly, 70% of the votes (min 75% of pilot group) must be in favour to pass the agreement. Therefore, 30% +1 need to see through the 'smoke and mirrors' in order to skewer the deal.

[Rotten Apple #1]

JetWest, just one last point (I hope...I was called 'motor-mouth' in grade 5):

You used the term

the company

in your post above. In my thinking, You, Me, the Air Supply dude, and that South Asian lady who empties the garbage in the crewroom every night, well, We Are ALL 'the company'. That is one thing that separates us as an organization from the has-been, one-off, dysfucntional, out-of-business-chapter-eleven, on-oxygen, mere skeletons of going-concern enterprises that exist or existed in the airline industry.

I'm off to go do some Overtime now. My kid's in Private School, and the bill's coming due.

Hopefully, somebody will spread some factual info to those of us not participating in the Super*Slam that will no doubt be the WJPA forum today.

Jonny ('Tripod' to those who have been in a locker room with me!!)

[tonysoprano]

[JestWet]

Johnny D,

you're right about the 30%+1 on the vote - I had a dyslexic moment. You make some very good points as well - I'm not trying to be greedy or hoping for any miracles with this new agreement - I just hope we don't sell our selves short by committing ourselves to a 5 year term. Remember the agreement is not only about money. There are a lot of other issues that are encompassed which we may find aren't suitable for us several years down the road.
Like I said, I hear you loud & clear and you do make some very good points. My rant is over until I see the finalized agreement.

[Amateur Turbines]

JestWet I find your lack of faith in the force disturbing!

Try having a more positive attitude bro!

I'm hoping for more clarified language all around, commuter rules, and a small pay rise. I believe that we need to have a real agreement with real language in order for our next agreement (in 5 years) to have a significant pay rise. 5 years is the perfect amount of time to wait in order for us to be able to say it's time to adjust the pay scales. For now like I said I am just looking for clarification of our ALREADY great working environment.

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

"Just a little Montrachet 1978 from Domaine de la Romanée-Conti."

I need to get a job like you.... that stuff is about 2500 bucks a bottle. (or come on man...some of us know wine)

Seriously though, I had a case of Chenin Blanc arrive from South Africa today, it goes well with the aforementioned bacon wrapped scallops.

[Ryan Coke2]

JD, gotta give you a thumbs up on your last post.

We are the company. Apparently some people don't get that. It isn't them and us, it is all of us trying to make a good thing and make sure it lasts.

I'll make sure I see past the smoke and mirrors that are the people that are whining before they even see the whole agreement. That isn't the vision that will ensure our long term prosperity.

[commuter]

"

Seriously though, I had a case of Chenin Blanc arrive from South Africa today, it goes well with the aforementioned bacon wrapped scallops.

MMMMMM BACON!

[jjj]

I don't think this is the appropriate place to discuss the proposed agreement.

Bitching about it here does nothing positive or productive.

Posting misinformation on this site will only lead to more crap and innuendo to clean up at a later date.

[Mach75]

I agree jjj.

I also strongly recommend that all WJ pilots get onto the WJPA forum and have a good read through all of the arguments, both pro and con, for the new proposed agreement before submitting their vote and don't be afraid to ask questions. There are some very interesting open discussions on there and there are a lot of concerns being raised that I think the WJPA may have overlooked.

[Jastapilot]

And for God's sake, don't just go voting 'yes' just because you feel guilty. If you don't like the agreement, you are under no obligation to support it. Figure it out, read it carefully, read the forums and make your decision. The Teal sun will rise the next day if it doesn't pass, and we will renegotiate.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Agreed Jastapilot. I made my vote. Got my reasons. Everyone else will have their reasons for their vote. Life goes on...