Young A330 FO

[DBR]

Company I used to dipatch for back in Holland hired an F/O direct entry B757 at age 19.
System IS completely different in Europe like people said before. You buy your job pretty much. Pay is better though. But what really is the purpose behind becoming a pilot? Is the flying still fun after 20 years if you started as an S/O-F/O on a big jet? I wonder...

I came to Canada to learn to fly properly, started on a single piston, then a light piston twin and now skipper on a medium turbine doing the 704 thing up north. I wouldn't want to exchange my experience with sitting on the right side in a 757. I mean, you need something to talk about while good old George flies you from A to B...
I do agree though that the pay at some companies is not what it should be for the responsibility we have.

DBR

[ScudRunner]

So which system is better?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z42fchrzhHY

Experience or Theory?

I didn't know they were mutually exclusive. I might
humbly suggest both, but since I am only an ATPL
airshow pilot with an engineering degree, I will defer
to the opinions of the hotter sticks here, that have
more education.

More to Compare:

MapleFlot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRWcQ1CTOnQ

KLM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFloyyEB ... re=related

So that proves it Yes planes fly Differently in North America

[Boeing boy]

I've noticed that pilots in Europe tend to advance to the higher level positions at much young ages than in Canada and the US. I don't know why that is. That is the case with Lufthansa, Austrian, KLM, Swiss, SAS etc. For example, when I flew from Vienna - Sarajevo on Austrian A321, I happened to see the first officer doing a walk around inspection of the aircraft. He did not look older than 23 or so. Also, on my way back to Toronto (in 2001) aboard a Lufthansa jet (I forgot the name), the captain looked about 40 while the F/O was in his late twenties. I have no idea why its so different there than here. I think it maybe because the number of pilots or prospective pilots in Europe is a lot lower than it is here. Any suggestions??

[pilotman15]

A lot of European Airlines have "Cadet" Pilot Programs, that is you pay them for the training, and they pay you back throughout your years of service with them. This means graduating the program in your early twenties and advancing right into the airline as a SO or cruise Pilot, and moving into the right seat relatively early, which, in turn, allows you to move to the left seat earlier. Unlike in Canada where it takes some time to move into a major airline and so XXXX hours of experience.

I think it maybe because the number of pilots or prospective pilots in Europe is a lot lower than it is here. Any suggestions??

[Boeing boy]

Ohh really?? I never knew about anything like that. Thanks for the post!

[ILSfan07]

.

[.......]

I've noticed that pilots in Europe tend to advance to the higher level positions at much young ages than in Canada and the US. I don't know why that is. Any suggestions??

Mostly because (as far as KLM goes) the pay scale is based on seniority and not equipment. So you'll see more older guys flying the planes with shorter range while the young'uns fly the long range.

[Captain Jack]

Mostly because (as far as KLM goes) the pay scale is based on seniority and not equipment. So you'll see more older guys flying the planes with shorter range while the young'uns fly the long range.

The way it should be. What difference does it make that you kill 100 people vs 300 people. To me, if I kill just 1 person, that is 1 to many.
The older fellas waiting to retire should have the seniority to do whatever kind of flying that fits their lifestyle and not have to do long haul just to top up their pensions!

[memorylapse]

The pay scales at KLM are very much linked to the equipment you fly for Captains (top pay is around 420,000 Canadian Dollar on any wide-body). For First Officers there is a distinction between wide-body and narrow body. All FO’s on the MD-11, B747-400, B777, and A330 are bunched together (whereby the number of A330 FO’s is counted, the most junior of all wide-body FO’s get a the A330 payscale, regardless of the equipment they are on, this is slightly less than full FO wide-body pay).

For all FO’s and SO’s the pay is seniority based (much too complicated to go into here). On the pilotjobsnetwork site you can see the pay at most European airlines.

KLM’s pay is a straight salary, there is no minimum or maximum flight hours or productivity pay. We still have a defined pension scheme. You build up 1.95% of that years pay as a defined pension (so 100,000 Euros gives a pension increase of 1,950 euros of pension per year). During an average career you end up with around 125,000 Euro per year pension, that is around 210,000 Canadian Dollar (oh yeah we retire at age 56 with that pension).

[swordfish]

Very informative...and very interesting, memorylapse. Thanks for a good post.

[oates76]

Hey guys, i'm a dual citizen (British/Canadian) currently training with a UK airline "sponsored" (use that term lightly) scheme. If any one has any questions feel free to pm me. Seemed a great idea at the time, although things aren't looking as peachy anymore (but where are they unless you work for WJ).

[LegoMan]

I dont really mind our system. My thing is the pay issue. By the time you get into the majors here you are making $60k+ and you are probably settled down and now you have to move down to a low salary $30-40k.