How Low Will You Go?

[FICU]

FICU,

Damn right... and to offset the reduced profitability and or loss of the Edmonton-Yellowknife run thanks to Westjet you may end up seeing northern carriers reducing the funding and sponsorship they provide to northern communities... so who is the ultimate loser in all of this?

What kind, and how much funding an sponsorship do the northern carriers provide to northern communities? Are there any hard numbers available?

You'd have to ask the airlines for exact details but it is substantial in helping improve the lives of northerners, especially the kids.

[Ali G]

Well, would Westjet be able to provide sponsorship or funding to communities in the north? Would there be any reason they might not? Perhaps the communites should contact WJ (and vice versa). Those communities may not be happy with their current providers, perhaps WJ may be able to expand further?

[FICU]

Well, would Westjet be able to provide sponsorship or funding to communities in the north? Would there be any reason they might not? Perhaps the communites should contact WJ (and vice versa). Those communities may not be happy with their current providers, perhaps WJ may be able to expand further?

Westjet can do whatever it wants although I don't know how they'd be able to support a community like Pond Inlet, for example, without offering service there.

A recent good deed Canadian North did was to fly a large group of kids out of Inuvik to Edmonton as VIPs for Hockey Day in Canada. Does Westjet do anything like that for kids in the south?

[wrc]

You can run but you can't hide. Like the man said, "welcome to the jungle baby".

Don't worry, I'm sure the "unprofessional kiosk" will drive away the loads, force us out and start our downward spiral to oblivion!

[FICU]

Don't worry, I'm sure the "unprofessional kiosk" will drive away the loads, force us out and start our downward spiral to oblivion!

The question is... why lower your standards to serve the north?

[Jastapilot]

It's only good for those in Yellowknife period.

wow dude, wow. So you're saying it's only good for the people who in effect sign your paychecks? I bet they'd want to know who you work for!

[Ali G]

Westjet can do whatever it wants although I don't know how they'd be able to support a community like Pond Inlet, for example, without offering service there.

You never know.

A recent good deed Canadian North did was to fly a large group of kids out of Inuvik to Edmonton as VIPs for Hockey Day in Canada. Does Westjet do anything like that for kids in the south?

WJ regularly participates in the "make a wish foundation" and takes children and families to Orlando and such, does that count?

I am not sure what your argument is here. Really, I just think you might be upset because WJ is taking some of your gravy. It is a free market. I am not sure what you expect WJ to do? Should they apologize for entering a free market and creating competition?

They are a business, just like yours.

Enjoy Pond Inlet.

[Donald]

An interesting comparison is what is happening with Sunwing and the Sydney, NS airport authority. It seems the airport is trying to block Sunwing from operating flights in/out of CYQY. The CBC article mentions an agreement between the airport authority and Westjet, so the question out there "Is this move being brought about by the airport authority alone, or is Westjet trying to block the competition?"

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/st ... ronto.html

Sunwing threatens court challenge against Sydney airport

Sunwing Airlines says it is going to court to challenge the Sydney Airport Authority's refusal to allow it to run a Sydney-Toronto route this summer.

The discount carrier had begun proceedings for a court injunction to overturn the decision, but announced Friday it was dropping its application and starting legal proceedings instead.

"Consumers should have a choice and it's not up to the airport authority or anyone else to decide who can or cannot fly into the airport," said Sunwing president Mark Williams.

Williams said news of the airport authority's decision had an immediate impact on sales, and based on the timing of court dates for the injunction application, there was no time to recover this summer.

Sunwing Airlines has operated a Sydney-Toronto route for the past three years. It planned to return to Cape Breton to resume the run on June 15.
Berth went to WestJet
But the airport authority said with Air Canada and WestJet flying the same route, there wasn't enough business for three airlines.

"If we do get an airline serving Sydney, we have to do everything in our power so that it's going to be profitable for that airline. Because if it's not, they will not stay," said airport authority CEO Larry MacPherson.Sunwing should not have assumed it had a berth in Sydney this summer without negotiations, MacPherson said. With no expression of interest from Sunwing last fall, the airport authority struck a deal with WestJet.
Sunwing says its program has been "irreparably damaged" by the airport authority's decision, but it hopes to resume the service next summer.

The airline says it will refund all bookings immediately.

The Sydney airport, which is about a 15-minute drive from downtown Sydney, bills itself as an "international ambassador" for Cape Breton. It is "crucial" to the island’s economy, the airport authority says on its website.

[Ali G]

Air Canada flies there too.

[Donald]

Air Canada flies there too.

Correct (although technically it's Jazz flights including direct YYZ service). However this line:

With no expression of interest from Sunwing last fall, the airport authority struck a deal with WestJet.

seems to imply that it is the deal with Westjet that has changed the game.

As always, being a media report one has to take it with a grain of salt. There have been similar deals and such made at other airports on the East coast ex. CYYG, CYDF. If I were to guess, I would say that the airport has guaranteed WJ a certain passenger or revenue level and now they are trying to protect their investment.

[FICU]

I am not sure what your argument is here. Really, I just think you might be upset because WJ is taking some of your gravy. It is a free market. I am not sure what you expect WJ to do? Should they apologize for entering a free market and creating competition?

Enjoy Pond Inlet.

It's quite simple... the north is a unique place and a unique market and I'd hate to see northerners suffer because a southern airline wants some easy summer cherry picking by low balling established northern airlines. If the Westjet product is so good why don't they compete on a level playing field with the other airlines at established prices?

BTW... it's not my gravy... and although I have seen pictures of Pond Inlet I have never been there... looks like a cool place to me.

[FICU]

An interesting comparison is what is happening with Sunwing and the Sydney, NS airport authority. It seems the airport is trying to block Sunwing from operating flights in/out of CYQY. The CBC article mentions an agreement between the airport authority and Westjet, so the question out there "Is this move being brought about by the airport authority alone, or is Westjet trying to block the competition?"

Very interesting... maybe the Yellowknife airport authority should block Westjet.

[Ali G]

It's quite simple... the north is a unique place and a unique market and I'd hate to see northerners suffer because a southern airline wants some easy summer cherry picking by low balling established northern airlines. If the Westjet product is so good why don't they compete on a level playing field with the other airlines at established prices?

I hardly think northerners will suffer. I think they will benefit from competition.

What is a level playing field? Is that a free market or regulated?

What are established prices? Since it is a unique market, perhaps we should regulate the prices?

[Ali G]

Very interesting... maybe the Yellowknife airport authority should block Westjet.

If the Westjet product is so good why don't they compete on a level playing field with the other airlines at established prices?

So what is it? Protectionism (regulated) or level playing field for the consumer to choose?

[bmc]

It's only good for those in Yellowknife period.

wow dude, wow. So you're saying it's only good for the people who in effect sign your paychecks? I bet they'd want to know who you work for!

I don't live in Canada. Haven't in 11 years. I don't have any skin in this game at all.

I do know north very well, though.

[bmc]

If the Westjet product is so good why don't they compete on a level playing field with the other airlines at established prices?

Don't ever go into business for yourself.

[bmc]

What are established prices?

Established prices are unwritten gentlemen's agreement on what prices they will charge consumers. Another word for it is collusion or price signaling. People go to jail for this.

[FICU]

Established prices are those that keep companies profitable while supplying a needed service. I believe the 2 northern carriers compete against each other on all fronts so I don't know what "gentlemen's agreement" you are referring to. Seeing that neither of the two previously lowered their fares to those ridiculous fares Westjet has thrown out would lead me to believe that they need what they are getting to remain sustainable and still give back to the communities.

Flying north costs money folks... 10 years ago a round trip ticket from Winnipeg to Churchill was $1200, now it's $1500... not because of gouging but because there are so few passengers to move. Do people in the south not understand that?

[bmc]

Established prices are those that keep companies profitable while supplying a needed service.

That makes no sense. None.

Established prices are published air fares. They can be set at whatever level the airline wants. It's the airline's discretion to sell however many seats at whatever price they want to.

Flying north costs money folks... 10 years ago a round trip ticket from Winnipeg to Churchill was $1200, now it's $1500... not because of gouging but because there are so few passengers to move. Do people in the south not understand that?

Are you suggesting there is a relationship between price and cost? There should be, but there seldom is. Virgin sold London-New York three weeks ago for GBP19 one way net net of commissions, charges and taxes. Etihad has a filed fare from Frankfurt to Beijing of EU 125 return.

[Jastapilot]

FICU, I'm sure there's a sheltered version of your socialist dream somewhere up there in the north. Who are you trying to kid about the prices they charge? They do it because they could get away with it. Yes, they're cost structure is higher, but who's fault is that? Is it WJ's fault? No, to think the north is FA and CN's very own special playground just shows how badly changes are needed.

It's now less than 3 weeks away when the people of YZF will truly have some better options.

[The Hammer]

FICU, I'm sure there's a sheltered version of your socialist dream somewhere up there in the north. Who are you trying to kid about the prices they charge? They do it because they could get away with it. Yes, they're cost structure is higher, but who's fault is that? Is it WJ's fault? No, to think the north is FA and CN's very own special playground just shows how badly changes are needed.

It's now less than 3 weeks away when the people of YZF will truly have some better options.

Jastapilot you'll have to excuse CN and FA from playing the "whine" card from Westjet's deck of cards. Clive played it over and over again in regards to yxd (could WJ really not compete with a half full jetstream or king air). He also used it every time WJ got shitty slots in New York.

Is CN ands FA whine completely logical? Maybe not, but logic was never Clive's strong point either.

It's time to realize your not the little guy anymore and your switching to "the bully" more every day.

[Jastapilot]

FICU, I'm sure there's a sheltered version of your socialist dream somewhere up there in the north. Who are you trying to kid about the prices they charge? They do it because they could get away with it. Yes, they're cost structure is higher, but who's fault is that? Is it WJ's fault? No, to think the north is FA and CN's very own special playground just shows how badly changes are needed.

It's now less than 3 weeks away when the people of YZF will truly have some better options.

Jastapilot you'll have to excuse CN and FA from playing the "whine" card from Westjet's deck of cards. Clive played it over and over again in regards to yxd (could WJ really not compete with a half full jetstream or king air). He also used it every time WJ got shitty slots in New York.

Is CN ands FA whine completely logical? Maybe not, but logic was never Clive's strong point either.

It's time to realize your not the little guy anymore and your switching to "the bully" more every day.

[Ali G]

Established prices are those that keep companies profitable while supplying a needed service.

Westjet has established a price that keeps it profitable and supplies a needed service. So, you should be happy they have satisfied your conditions on entering the market.

[stickontheice]

What are established prices?

Established prices are unwritten gentlemen's agreement on what prices they will charge consumers. Another word for it is collusion or price signaling. People go to jail for this.

Agreed but sure bugs me that all the prices are the same when I go to the gas station.

[FICU]

Westjet has established a price that keeps it profitable and supplies a needed service. So, you should be happy they have satisfied your conditions on entering the market.

A "needed" service? Give your head a shake man... another Boeing's worth of seats in a market already over saturated with seats. The 50 seat Jazz RJ isn't needed... the First Air and Canadian North combi's served the market just fine and that's when Yellowknife was booming. Yellowknife is suffering at this time if you weren't aware.