Mount Royal College

[Homebuilt Cub]

Hi there. Past MRC grad...flying through the Calgary area this summer in my cub. Just wondering how Mount Royal is doing these days and if anyone knows who the current CFI is?

thanks,
H C

[glenlivet]

there has been several changes over the last few years, not sure who the current cfi is. they have lost a couple of good people so far

[philknight29]

Alex Burton is apparently there new CFI.

[LAX]

It appears things are changing for the worse. To start, the college administration got rid of some of their best and most experienced people. For what I could not guess; I knew these people to do their jobs well.
Also, the college administration, whom has no aviation background supposedly decided it is necessary to change the program into a 4 year business/aviation degree program because of "demands of the industry". These are the same people who if you told them Kenn Borek was an airline would ask something like "Ohhhh, what kind of jets do they fly?".
Of course I could go on but I'm afraid I would start a rant I could not stop.
As a past grad of the program I'm a little disappointed; if MRC keeps walking this road it could destroy what I think is a great program.

[k411]

It appears things are changing for the worse. To start, the college administration got rid of some of their best and most experienced people. For what I could not guess; I knew these people to do their jobs well.
Also, the college administration, whom has no aviation background supposedly decided it is necessary to change the program into a 4 year business/aviation degree program because of "demands of the industry". These are the same people who if you told them Kenn Borek was an airline would ask something like "Ohhhh, what kind of jets do they fly?".
Of course I could go on but I'm afraid I would start a rant I could not stop.
As a past grad of the program I'm a little disappointed; if MRC keeps walking this road it could destroy what I think is a great program.

Where did you hear this? according to their website, its still a 2 year diploma program...

[wxguy]

It is currently still a 2 year program, but they are in the process of making it 4 years.

[5x5]

It's also likely due to MRC looking to become a University. May well be one of the programs that has to be converted to a 4 year program.

What's in a name?

Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2009

Bill 4, the Post-Secondary Learning Amendment Act, received royal assent on May 26 when Lieutenant Governor Norman Kwong signed it into law.

Mount Royal College is now able to apply to use "university" in our name, and Mount Royal Board of Governors Chair Cathy Williams has sent a letter making this request.

Minister of Advanced Education and Technology, Doug Horner, will now consider Mount Royal's application for a name change.

"This legislation is an important step for post-secondary education in Alberta," says Dave Marshall, president of Mount Royal.

"We are in close contact with the Minister's office for updates on this process."

Today, 80% of Mount Royal students are in a baccalaureate program, a university level course or in a university transfer program. When, and if, a name change happens, it will better reflect the undergraduate education Mount Royal currently offers.

"A new name would not change how Mount Royal operates. We will continue to offer high-quality, personalized learning in smaller classes," says Marshall. "It would recognize that Mount Royal offers degree programs in conjunction with our diploma, certificate, transfer and open studies programs."

There would also be no change in how Mount Royal is funded, or its position within the Baccalaureate and Applied Studies Institution sector of the Roles and Mandate Policy framework that is outlined in the Post-Secondary Learning Act.

Marshall says the amendments introduced by Minister Horner in Bill 4 are a clear demonstration of his commitment to helping Mount Royal achieve its aspirations.

"I want to acknowledge and thank the Minister for his tremendous efforts over the past three years to enable Mount Royal to continue to offer Albertans, Canadians and international students high-quality degree programs."

When Mount Royal first opened its doors nearly 100 years ago, it welcomed 189 students. Today, some 12,000 credit students take a variety of programs and courses including bachelor's degrees, applied degrees, university transfer courses, diplomas and certificates.

More details about Bill 4 can be found on the Government of Alberta's Advanced Education and Technology website.

[k411]

So if I am in for this coming fall, it will still be a 2 year program then? or will they shift to the program include everyone in the program when the transition starts?

[wxguy]

It is a 2 year program starting september this year. Usually with post sec, if they change your program mid diploma/degree you are only responsible for completing the requirements that were specified when you started. So if you start the 2 year program, you won't get stuck doing a 4 year program.

[macbainz1]

It is a 2 year program starting september this year. Usually with post sec, if they change your program mid diploma/degree you are only responsible for completing the requirements that were specified when you started. So if you start the 2 year program, you won't get stuck doing a 4 year program.

so when will the 1st 4 year program begin? or can you still opt to do the 2 year program?

[FLYaJET]

As a past grad i know they have been talking about a degree for years.

With all these new jobs on avcanada and a recent CFI change (i think they were posting on here a few months ago) being posted i figure it might be hard enough to keep the 2 year diploma running smoothly with any kind of continuity for the students. Maybe it is move to get more instructors for the degree program. i dont know. I just doubt anything as far as a degree will happen quick.

From talking to friends working for other flight schools i hear Mount Royal is in trying times with money/staff etc. Too bad to hear from what was once such a reputable program

[skyordie151]

Dude, What are you talking about?

I'm in the program at MRC and I've heard of NO talk about it becoming a four year degree program. You CAN take your two years in the aviation program, and continue for another two years in something else to graduate with a Bac. degree.

As for the CFI, he's a great guy. Alex Burton started with us this year, and has a background in curriculum planning as well as flight instructing. I also did really like our former CFI, Jason Rule, and to be honest, am not really sure what kind of politics lead to him leaving us.

Also, who said anything about MRC running into staff or money problems? They bumped up the cost this last year from the one previous....by about a hundred bucks, and it was because fuel prices skyrocketed. Also, the rates per hour rental went up, but that's happened everywhere. As for the staff issue...I can tell you that the school is excellent and fully staffed. Since I started there, not a single instructor has left.

[Tube Driver]

Dude,

You have not been in the industry long enough to know what is good and what is not. The new CFI has a focus on curriculum instead of teaching you about the business, this is a real failing by the school. I understand that they passed over many experienced industry people in favor of people who are teachers first and pilots a distant second, or third. Their focus is on people who have post secondary teaching experience first and aviation experience as a sideline. At least this is what I am told of the classroom and simulator instructors. I can count on one hand the number of experienced aviation people who have experience teaching at a post secondary level and they are not at Mount Royal. The program will suffer, and as a result the product they turn out will suffer, making it more difficult to land a first job. One of the only options open would be to instruct at said school. Are you beginning to see the vicious circle effect here? It is like saying that you do not need to be a lawyer to teach law, or that you do not need any business background to run a business school or aviation experience to administer an aviation program. Is this picture becoming more clear? The administrators of the school need to rethink the direction that they are taking the program in. What is the point of a 4 year degree if at your first job the chief pilot laughs you out of the office because he/she knows that you came from a school that does not have a good reputation amongst the industry people. Seriously think about the return on investment you get from this program it is your money and your future, do your due diligence.

[PW123]

I am a graduate from Mount Royal from a few years ago. No longer around the college but i did hear from some recent graduates talking about the program.

In my mind, Mount Royal has had a good reputation in the industry for the last 35+ years. I know some may disagree but thats your opinion. I have met MRC grads throughout my world travels and have flown with graduates from 1970's to 2008ish. All around good pilots and more importantly good people despite what some people might say about attitude etc. You get good pilots from private/small flight school or college programs alike and you get the attitude/cocky pilots from both as well.

When i went through the program there were great courses in Aircraft systems and Meteorology taught by very experienced individuals. These courses are things you wouldnt get at the typical flying club or flight school. The flight instructors were also experienced with the program and industry. The academic classes were good but it seemed the program was focussed on the FLYING. That being said...when shit hits the fan in the Arctic on a cold stormy night...calculus etc aint gonna save your ass.

It is too bad to hear that the college is so focused on the academics these days and the flying is being put on the backburner. Possibly the result of the CFI they recently aquired???I was told he has VERY minimal industry experience and does not hold an IFR rating. To have a program so dedicated on preparing the student for an entry level job in the industry being led by someone who lacks any experience is shocking. I know they have lost many good people in the past few year...i hope with the job postings they do not loose everyone with experience in the industry and with the program.

Despite what i have heard...i will cross my fingers for another 35+ years of MRC aviation
keep the blue side up

[skyordie151]

If you have your doubts, that's fine. But here's my argument: Several of the instructors at MRC don't hold teaching degrees. MRC recognizes an ATPL as a masters degree, and that allows experienced pilots to be able to teach at the college. I know first hand that the teachers at the school are experienced, and one of our sim instructors is a current pilot with jazz. As for Mr. Alex Burton, check out this blog I found. http://www.pacificrimaviation.ca and click on "Aviation Insights." Read through a few of them, I find them interesting and informative WAY beyond the standard for the commercial students, which should be the goal of any flight school

[Altstar]

I'm brand new to avcanada and I was surprised to see the "Mount Royal College" topic at the top of the list as I am a former grad. Interesting to read of the changes taking place but like a couple others I'm disappointed in the direction they're headed. I was also shocked to read that the CFI does not currently hold an IFR and has minimal industry experience (assuming the above is accurate).

As for Mr. Alex Burton, check out this blog I found. http://www.pacificrimaviation.ca and click on "Aviation Insights." Read through a few of them, I find them interesting and informative WAY beyond the standard for the commercial students, which should be the goal of any flight school

I had a chance to read a couple of the blogs posted by Mr. Burton. While it seems he has extensive single engine VFR experience, there was little to no mention of IFR or multi engine topics. Skyordie151, I would not go as far as to say that these blogs are "WAY beyond the standard for commercial students" and it seems to me, and I say this with respect, that Mr. Burton would be better suited for a local flying club and not an established professional pilot program. I don't like to rant but I also discovered postings for the Assistant CFI and "Senior" Instructor positions. I found it backwards that the qualifications required for both positions are greater than the boss'.


When I went to Mount Royal my goal was to be prepared for a career as a professional pilot and I was. Hopefully the students currently going through the program can say the same. From what I've read I hope that they hold on to the quality guys that they have.

[maverick007]

Im a very recent grad from the Aviation Program at MRC and I hate to say it, but the program is going downhill, fast. Moral within the program is at an all-time low, the new CFI does not hold a current Multi-IFR and has very little IFR experience and progress with training is very slow. Also, it seems odd that the CFI is at the same level as the students in regards to IFR training, especially since half the program is dedicated towards IFR flying. And MRC is cutting some of their best instructors, they have lost (and by lost, I mean not because they want to leave...) numerous, well qualified and EXCELLENT instructors and the program will suffer from it. The old CFI was one of the best in the program, and has been replaced by someone very under qualified. The people running the program are focusing all their attention on this new degree idea, which is retarded in the first place, and not on the training, well-being of the students, or continuity of the program. I hope to see things pick up, but ill be suprised if the program is still around in a few years. I thought the program was excellent, but I cant say that anymore. They are ignoring the concerns of students and staff, when they should be paying very close attention to it, especially since the head of the program has absolutley NO experience with flying or in the aviation industry. What was once such a reputable program is quickly taking a turn for the worse.

[wiff321]

Mount Royal HAD a reputation as one of the most prestigious aviation programs in North America. Unfortunatly, some of the exectutive decisions that have recently been made as put this program into a "microburst", if you will.

The hiring of a chair that has no background in aviation is most absurd. She may be a smart woman, but not the right one for this job. The hiring of the current CFI, who does not hold an IFR is ludicrous. How are the students supposed to learn if their "leader" isn't qualified?

I am really disappointed with the execution of the current situation.

The postings for the new instructor positions are confusing as they already have a GREAT instructing team. If only I had a flow chart to help me understand.............

W

[GE90]

Mount Royal has a good reputation in the industry. I am not happy to see the recent comments about the program. Im afraid i have also heard from numerous people that the program is in a "microburst" as wiff321 would put it.

Recently talked to a past instructor who worked there part time. He said he quit recently due to the program falling apart. he confirmed the people in charge had little experience with aviation and the CFI has little to no experience with IFR etc.
Also heard that most of the current instructors are not invited back this fall. Sounds like they are cleaning house. I know a couple instructors to be very experienced with the program and industry. too bad.

I am familiar with the program and i know that with all new instructors and management...its sure going to be hard on the students hoping for any kind of consistency.

Anyone thinking about Mount Royal. its sounding like you should do your homework.

Too bad to hear all this recent news.

[FLYaJET]

Hello Homebuildt Cub,

Did you manage to stop by Mount Royal College this summer? If so, how was everything?

I managed to stop in a few weeks ago. Seems they have done renovations to the hangar finally, which is a big improvement from the years i went there. It wasnt a great day for weather, but no one was flying and i would have thought it was ideal conditions for some IFR training. I also flew with a Mount Royal grad a couple of weeks ago and he was quick to fill me in on recent events. Sounds like the word is getting out that the program is being led by unknowlegeable and underqualified individuals (Chair and CFI). I heard the CFI does not even have and IFR rating!!!!!!!! Maybe thats why the planes were on the ground that day when it was 1500-2000 overcast.

Too bad to hear from another person that MRC is no longer the leader they use to be in the aviation college field.

[PW123]

If you have your doubts, that's fine. I know first hand that the teachers at the school are experienced, and one of our sim instructors is a current pilot with jazz. As for Mr. Alex Burton, check out this blog I found. http://www.pacificrimaviation.ca and click on "Aviation Insights." Read through a few of them, I find them interesting and informative WAY beyond the standard for the commercial students, which should be the goal of any flight school

HAHA. O Skyordie151. You have alot to learn yet. As for your Jazz sim instructor, well he may just have as little as 250 hours, as that is what jazz has been hiring guys with. As for Mr. Burton, well lets just say it sounds like he is grossly underqualified for the position he is in. I followed your link to the "Aviation Insights" and i agree there is some informative information in them. However, all of these articles would best suit the weekend private pilot flying for a piece of Pie or $100 hamburger. What is a commercial pilot??? i guess you are still a private pilot, so you would not know yet.

He does not mention anything about a circling NDB approach at night in a snowstorm, about getting out of a short gravel strip fully loaded. He does not mention anything about turbine powered airplanes or barely even multi engine airplanes. So if MRC is training pilots to succesfully transition to a Taylorcraft or use GPS to navigate to the next piece of apple pie.........they are on the right track. If they want to help the students when they get in the real world............well, lets just say they will have a hard time after being "mentored" by this advice.

Too bad to hear all of this.

[canadianbacon112]

It's been said and I will say it again. A program once prestigious and highly respected has greatly gone down hill. In the time of my training through the college I had several issues. Instructors always seemed to be late; the ramp operations were extremely disorganized along with a lot of cancellations. 2 CFI's had been fired within a close span of time and as recently discovered the new hire, a great person with much knowledge in academic organization seems to be slightly under-qualified in the IFR department. Having graduated the program and now working in the industry I will tell you something very useful. No body cares about you having a business diploma along with a few other aviation related academic courses to go along with your flight training. Every employer that I have come across so far are more so interested in the number of hours you hold. Getting a job in this industry will ALWAYS boil down to hours and who you know. A person who has a diploma or even a degree for that matter applies for the same job as someone who only has flight training but more useful hour’s logged guess who the job is going to? Instead of taking a 2 or 4 year school course along with your training hammer out your licences and necessary ratings and log those hours. Get a job that will help you log required hours in order to get yourself into a big bird. Don’t waste time and money on useless courses that the school is obviously going to try and convince you that is your ticket. The local club is honestly a better choice. Better on the pocket and you will be able to start working in the industry a lot sooner.

P.S,

Flow charts are NOT the key to success.

[Tube Driver]

I will repeat my earlier post as it is indicative of the situation at MRC as I predicted much earlier.

Dude,

You have not been in the industry long enough to know what is good and what is not. The new CFI has a focus on curriculum instead of teaching you about the business, this is a real failing by the school. I understand that they passed over many experienced industry people in favor of people who are teachers first and pilots a distant second, or third. Their focus is on people who have post secondary teaching experience first and aviation experience as a sideline. At least this is what I am told of the classroom and simulator instructors. I can count on one hand the number of experienced aviation people who have experience teaching at a post secondary level and they are not at Mount Royal. The program will suffer, and as a result the product they turn out will suffer, making it more difficult to land a first job. One of the only options open would be to instruct at said school. Are you beginning to see the vicious circle effect here? It is like saying that you do not need to be a lawyer to teach law, or that you do not need any business background to run a business school or aviation experience to administer an aviation program. Is this picture becoming more clear? The administrators of the school need to rethink the direction that they are taking the program in. What is the point of a 4 year degree if at your first job the chief pilot laughs you out of the office because he/she knows that you came from a school that does not have a good reputation amongst the industry people. Seriously think about the return on investment you get from this program it is your money and your future, do your due diligence.

[SafetyFirst]

I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say that Mount Royal is going "downhill". The aviation program at Mount Royal has always been an exceptional program and continues to be so. As far as having instructors with little experience, I beg to differ. Mount Royal has numerous instructors, both flight and in class, whom are very qualified in what they teach. One example would be Mr. Ralph Langmann. If anyone were to say that this man is unqualified to teach what he does, then that person would be a fool. Ralph has been with the program since its beginning, so anybody who has graduated before in the so called "good ol' days" have been taught by the same person still teaching today. Secondly, I'll address the issue of the CFI Alex Burton. True he may not have had much IFR or multi experience, but does a CFI honestly require it to make or break an entire program. Back in the day when I did my PPL at a local flying club, I never even knew who the CFI was, let alone him having any influence on the performance of my flying. The IFR and Multi training at Mount Royal is currently being taught by such fellows as Butch Foster. This man too is a long time instructor with Mount Royal and has more than enough experience with what he teaches. For God sakes, he stop counting his hours after hitting the 20 000 mark! No flights that I'm aware of are flown with the CFI in the Cougar, so in reality, it absolutely does not matter whether or not Alex Burton has much experience flying multi or not. It almost seems to me as though somebody, who finished the program a few years back, was unhappy with it, and started this whole charade about Mount Royal being bad. Rumors and gossip can spread quickly, whether it may be true or not. Hell, for all I know, maybe everyone talking bad about Mount Royal are dropouts of the program and have nothing better than vengeful comments about it. It sickens me to hear this bad talk about the program, because frankly, little of it is true in reality. Mount Royal is a great program and will continue to be so for the coming years.

[5x5]

Secondly, I'll address the issue of the CFI Alex Burton. True he may not have had much IFR or multi experience, but does a CFI honestly require it to make or break an entire program.

Good grief, what a question!! Of course the CFI does, that's why the CFI is the central position at any school.

Back in the day when I did my PPL at a local flying club, I never even knew who the CFI was, let alone him having any influence on the performance of my flying.

Bringing up a quasi-example of another unnamed school doesn't address anything. Since you didn't even know who the CFI was, how could you possibly know what he contributed or how important his knowledge and experience was? And also, that could have been a less than top-notch school as well.