Best Flight School in the Vancouver Area

[human garbage]

The funny thing about PFC is they are the only school around that will rent out their twins, yet they are very restrictive in other ways. It is a hard school to figure out...

Don't even bother trying to figure out PFC. I went for my first six lessons there and it was six too many. Restrictive rules do not make good pilots. If you are shielded from realities of flying for too long it can be deadly.

The "plastic Lawndart", aka Katana spins like a plastic pig! And I love the spin characteristics of the Tomahawk.

The Traumahawk that brings back memories...of terror It was remarkable in its capacity to spin. A word of warning though, after six or so rotations it will take almost as many to get out of it. Scared the wits out of me the first time it happened. Keep those imputs in there and hope it comes out before the ground comes up to smite ye.

By chance are you the Barney that used to park his Grumann on the line near the "stealth Tomahawk' (as he called it) at ZBB years ago? If so, all the best from one of the many you chewed out in a profession capacity way back...


To the OP: Go see MichaelP. I have only met him in passing myself but I've heard nothing but good things from those who have flown with him.

[Old Dog Flying]

HG: That`s Me! As for the Tomahawk, I had the first few in Canada while managing the RFC and I checked out all of my instructors...it really scared the hell out of them...but in my estimation it was a very good training aircraft when flown by the book. For those that were too lazy or arrogant to feel that they could fly anything...it would bite your butt real quick. The only difference between a Tomahawk and a J-3 was the J-3 killed you more slowly...and I used to own a share in one so I`m knowledgeable on the subject.

As for chewing you out, well I may have but more than likely it was Rick-the-pric...whoops can`t say that! All too frequently I have been accused of that even when I was no where near ZBB.

[MichaelP]

Yes, pilots would back chat and even ask if that was Barney even though Barney had retired...
Barney donated his time to that tower, and somewhere else as well
"I'm just donating my time..." he said to one pilot... I intejected with where I thought Barney might be donating...

It is usually very pleasant here at Boundary Bay these days. There's none of the shouting and anger that was apparent when I first flew here in '89.

[Old Dog Flying]

Before I retired, I was at YCW for lunch with my wonderful Lady. While getting up on the wing of the "Alley Cat", my foot slipped off the thing and I ended up crushing my foot. Ingrid flew us back to ZBB and I was off for over a Year while the saw bones tried to figure out what happened and how they could fix the thing.

After nearly a year of hobbling around, I learned to drive using my left foot for gas and brake and needing to get out of the house, drove out to Langley...and this is where it gets interesting! While driving around the west side hangars, I stopped at an open hangar where a newly built RV was being inspected. I talked to the 3 guys, asking questions about the build when the younger guy suggested to the older guy ...the builder, that he might go to ZBB for his initial training on the aircraft due to the longer runways.

The old guy went into a tirade about that F$%^%&^ Barney at Boundary Bay and he kept up the rant for some time using language that would make a sailor blush! Grinning to myself I asked him what had gotten his shorts in a knot, he told me how that F#$%^(&% Barney at ZBB had given him a real blast over the air for using the wrong procedures...and this happened just a few weeks before I showed up at his hangar.

I asked if he would recognized thae voice of that #$%^&*% $%#&%%$# Barney and he went off again.

That's when I held my hand out and said..."Well I'd llike you to meet that F$%^&*% B$%^&$@* Barney from Boundary Bay"...he kept right on babbling1

[MichaelP]

Barney you are a legend in the Lower Mainland, even pilots who have never heard you control since they learned well after you left CZBB, 'know' you.

[Old Dog Flying]

[alexdenham]

Don't forget Pitt Meadows Airport! Excellent training airport and a convenient location for anyone North of the Fraser!

[lazyambition]

I want to learn aerobatics and I don't mind going anywhere in the lower mainland to do it.

Does anyone know where would be a good place to start?

[MichaelP]

There's a brand new Decathlon coming in soon for this purpose.
Another TC inspector will be renewing his aerobatic authorisation and will be able to renew people like me's Aerobatic Instructor Rating.
One of the schools in the Lower Mainland should get this aircraft.

There is one aerobatic instructor who is just checking out in the Pro Citabria and if they have 'aerobatic' put on their OC he can teach aerobatics in this aircraft.
Be aware that AEROBATIC was not on the OC when I taught same in the Citabria and I had to explain myself to TC. It is not on the OC now.
I am not sure what will become of the PFC Citabria, I am not sure whether they have someone to teach tailwheel and aerobatics as yet.

The Lower Mainland is a very difficult place to enthuse people with the art of flying, to fly anything less boring than a Cessna, and to fly for fun, more than as a means to the Boeing or Airbus cockpit.
So anyone taking on aeroplanes such as these is taking a risk... And then to find competent instructors.

As for me... I have a Decathlon and a Chipmunk on tap... when the fog goes and/or I have ground transport to get to them.

[ZBBYLW]

I want to learn aerobatics and I don't mind going anywhere in the lower mainland to do it.

Does anyone know where would be a good place to start?

Like MichealP said one of the schools in the lowermainland will get this bird. I have heard rumour it might be operate at CFC in the short term. I am going to be getting my Class 2 Aerobatic Instructor Rating on that bird and hopefully instruct on it.

[lazyambition]

Well then I gues I'll be meeting you shortly!

[MichaelP]

Yesterday we were in for a full TC inspection.
They even went through the SportStar which as an 'ultralight' is not even on our OC!
All was well with the world and we intend to keep everything present and correct.

[Old Dog Flying]

Yesterday this school filled with three Transport Canada inspectors... We were in for a full inspection.
They even went through the SportStar which as an 'ultralight' is not even on our OC!

All is well with the World and so even ...( This has been edited at the request of the above party for some reason.. there you go Mike! The rest of my post remains as is!) .

All that means is that you were not caught...this time! I've run enough schools to know that because you pass a base inspection, they'll just dig a bit deeper next time.

[MichaelP]

This school was set up to do the job properly.
It's not a matter of being "caught".

All schools will be required to 'self audit' in the future.
This we did, and yes we found a few very minor things to fix as any school should expect.
These were easily fixed.

In recent times I have twice seen a large school here embarrassed by TC inspectors as one by one their aircraft have to go to maintenance for rectification.
It is not easy at a large school, granted.

Here we try to ensure everything that has to be done is done on our aircraft.
We will continue to self audit on a regular basis and not get caught with our pants down.

This is not just because as a relatively new school we are under the microscope.
In England I operated older aeroplanes and proper maintenance was essential.
In fact in those days we had 62 day checks in addition to 50/100/150/200 hour checks.
If you only flew two hours in two months you still had to do the 62 day check
I put new radios in, new fabric on the wings, new canopies on... When magnetos needed replacing I bought new; the aeroplanes had to fly reliably.
I had new Slingsby Fireflies and older Condors, older still Austers and even older Stampes, Tiger Moth, and Jungmann.
CAA inspectors would come around as their offices were near... They were always interested in what I had. A lot of them only had heavy aeroplane experience and so seeing wood and fabric aircraft and being able to ask questions about them was educational.

Likewise today. The aeroplanes have to fly reliably, would I skimp on maintenance?
We get occasional visits from Transport... I bought Earl Grey tea for our maintenance inspector!

In no way do I want to have an US and THEM situation. Life's too short and this is supposed to be fun... somewhat!

[Old Dog Flying]

It is not so much trying to hide anything as being perceived to be hiding something...and a case in point: I ran a large flying club with an excellent reputation and never had a problem with any base inspection but one day my chief of maintenance called me to the hangar because a TC Airworthiness Inspector had grounded our entire fleet!

Upon entering the hangar, I recognized the joker and asked what the problem was...his responce was that the new Piper Archer did not have an ELT HERE decal on it and if we were trying to cover up that, we were obviously trying to hide other discrepencies! I tried explaining to the idiot that the Archer had just arrived from the factory and was scheduled for an import CofA inspection the next day.

This did not carry any weight with our prize moron and he was adamant that the fleet was grounded until he went through every aircraft. I "detained" him in a very undignified manner while I phoned the Regional Superintendant in YWG, explaining the circumstances and if he did not remove his inspector from the premises, I was going to have the inspector by the short curlies.

The reason for the trained morons actions was that we had a law suit against him for failure to pay a very large bill for parts and services rendered obtained by him when he ran a maintenance shop which he had run into bankrupsy. And of course he did not disclose this when he was hired by TC.

Needless to say he wasn't working for the Feds for long ...So there you go Michael, one day you are the greatest and the next...Oh Shit!...so it might be wise to not brag about how good you are because there will always be someone of higher authority who wants to cut you down a notch or two because he doesn't like your hair style or some other silly thing.

[MichaelP]

Yes Barney I understand your story and of such things I am aware.
It's an interestng contrast between the CAA at that time and TC because I would presume you were running a school in the 70's - 80's?
The CAA were enthusiastic and encouraging at that time.

I told our TC inspectors about what happened at the Tiger Club.
We had been flying the Turbulents on skis on those rare snow days...
The Turbulent as built by Rollasons was a certified aeroplane with a certified Ardem 4CO2 1500cc (VW) engine, minimum crew one, maximum number of occupants one!
Michael Jones had picked up some water ski blanks at the boat show and these had been converted to aeroplane skis.
An aluminium shovel was fitted to the tailskid.
The CAA were upset that these skis were unapproved and so sent their test pilot, Daryl Stinton, down to test them at the first opportunity.
The CAA then approved the skis and all was well with the world!
Imagine TC doing that?

I was annoyed when the really good four point harnesses in the Maule that were approved in the USA had to be removed in favour of a three point recoil harness that would not do the job in an accident, because the four point was not approved in Canada.

The way I operate is to try to do the job properly and if I can't do it properly I won't do it at all.

[Hedley]

really good four point harnesses in the Maule ... not approved in Canada.

Yeah, our Maule has (just) the original lap belts. I would really
like to put some shoulder harnesses in, but that would require
an STC, so that's not going to happen.

The important thing to remember is that paperwork, not safety,
is what's important in aviation.

[dell111]

I have nothing to say but great things about Sea Land Air. You get to know everyone that works there and you are not just "another student" which it can seem like at other schools. All the instructors are great there as well, try going up with Aaron on a intro flight!

[MichaelP]

My goodness, another dip into the promotional fund

[Executiveflyby]

For aerobatics and taildragger Canadian Flight Centre at ZBB now has a New Super Decathlon and the Citabria for rental and training.

[SkyWolfe]

I have seen the Decathlon but not the Citabria. I am here all the time. Also, isn't the Decathlon going to be rented at 400/hour? Little out of my budget, but I will try.

So far, if you are looking for Aerobatics, I here the school in YYF is very good. Also, if you are looking for an awesome Aerobatic guy, go see Michael P at Sea Land Air. Of course like stated, the Decathlon is leased by CFC. I don't know who will be doing the training there. Do you?

Just curious if you know more then I

Wolfie

[Executiveflyby]

The Decathlon rate is only $289.00 no fuel surcharge dual. ...FIXED IT
Citabria $168.00 Dual.

[SkyWolfe]

Good to know. They didn't know when I dropped by a while ago. Just incase you honestly thought I didn't have the forsight to ask. 229 is very affordable.

However, good way to promote your school. - let me edit this, it sounds rude. Good way to promote ie wicked rate on the Decathlon.

Cheers

[Osiris]

The Decathlon rate is only $229.00 no fuel surcharge dual.
Citabria $168.00 Dual.
If you call CFC they tell you.

I called them today and was quoted $229 dual, but I called the owner of the aircraft as well and was told that $229 is the solo rate (not that it's going solo), while $289 would be the dual rate. There may be a bit of a mix-up.

Also, +1 for Michael's operation and Skyquest, both very good schools.
(no invoice Michael, just a cup-o-tea).

[husky]

Could someone explain to me how they came up with charging $290 an hour for a freaking super decathlon?

How the heck do they justify such a rental rate?